Foxhunters defy the ban with a record turnout

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,400
1,667
113


Foxhunting with hounds may have been banned since February 2005 but that didn't stop more than 300,000 people - a record turnout - to enjoy the annual Boxing Day (26th December) hunts. The Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals says that the reason why record crowds turned out to watch the hunts yesterday was because the sport is more popular with the people now that hunting with hounds has been outlawed.

314 foxhunts took place across Britain yesterday.

Although fox hunting with a pack of hounds to kill foxes is now banned (these dogs rip the poor creatures to shreds), foxhunting is still legal. Legal hunting activity includes, among other things:

*Trail hunting (the hounds following a man-laid scent)
*Exercising hounds
*Rabbit and rat hunting
*Using no more than two dogs to flush out a fox from cover to be shot (which is much more humane than being ripped to pieces by dogs)

But it's still clear that many huntsmen are ignoring the ban on hounds and are still using them to kill foxes.
*****************************************************************



Hunters defy the ban with record turnout
By KIRSTY WALKER 26th December 2006


Boxing Day hunt: Organisers claim more than 300,000 braved the cold to enjoy their favourite pastime



Record numbers of hunt supporters gathered at Boxing Day events across the country in defiance of Labour's ban on hunting with hounds.

Organisers claimed that hunting was more popular than ever and that more than 300,000 braved the cold to enjoy their favourite pastime.

The Countryside Alliance said that the record turnout proved the two-year ban on the blood sport was irrelevant and called for the law to be changed.

According to the organisation, a total of 314 UK hunts took place on what is traditionally the busiest day in the hunting calendar.

Opponents had hoped that interest in the sport would dwindle after Labour introduced a ban on hunting with dogs in February 2005.

But the enthusiastic turn-out suggested the opposite - with more than half of all hunts reporting an increase in membership in the past two years.

To date, there has been only one successful prosecution - and that was brought privately - and critics claim the law has become a farce.

MPs spent more than 700 hours debating the controversial issue in Parliament at enormous cost to the taxpayer.

But hunt supporters say they have been allowed to act within the law by taking advantage of loopholes in the legislation to pursue their hobby.

But animal rights campaigners claim that foxes are still being hunted with packs of hounds and that the police lack either the will or the means to enforce it.

Countryside Alliance spokeswoman Charlotte Fiander said: "We think we've had a record turnout this year.

We were expecting a big turnout as there is a lot of support for hunting across the country.

"Everyone is still going out to show their support - this ban just isn't working.

"We are seeing people who have never hunted before going out and that is certainly boosting the numbers. It just shows that this law needs to be changed."

More than 2,000 people turned out at the Beaufort Hunt in Gloucestershire, where the Prince of Wales and other members of the Royal Family have enjoyed hunting.

The Prince and his sons William and Harry have previously ridden with the hunt, which is the nearest to his Highgrove Estate, but no royals attended.

Jo Aldridge, spokeswoman for the Beaufort Hunt, claimed that more foxes were being killed since the ban as huntsmen and women are legally allowed to shoot the animals if they are flushed out by no more than two dogs.

She said: "There were more than 2,000 attending the hunt today, with around 150 of those on horseback. The hunt was extremely well attended - it took us by surprise to some extent.

"The ban has not affected the popularity of hunt at all, in fact we seem to be being supported in greater numbers than ever, so the ban hasn't worked from that viewpoint.

"Foxes are still being killed by the gun, probably in greater numbers than when they would be killed via the hunt."

More than 2,000 supporters attended the Worcester Hunt to the Raven Hotel in Droitwich.

Joint Master David Palmer said: "The crowds were as large as we have ever known them. Most are people who we might not see for the rest of the year, but who come out on Boxing Day to show their support for the hunt."

Two hundred people gathered at the Murray Arms, Gatehouse of Fleet, to support the Dumfriesshire and Stewartry hunt, which re-formed this year and was meeting for the first Boxing Day since 2002.

Chairman Jamie Blackett said: "It's wonderful to be out with the Dumfriesshire and Stewartry on Boxing Day again. The support here today shows exactly why we had to re-start the hunt and why I'm confident that we will be out for many years to come."

The Vale of Aylesbury with Garth and South Berks had 3,000 at their meet near Berkhamsted in Buckinghamshire.

Huntsman Gerald Sumner said: "Support like this so close to London shows that hunting isn't some sort of weird rural tradition that is dying out.

"Hunting is more popular in the South East of England than it has ever been."

Countryside Alliance chief executive, Simon Hart, who joined a crowd of 700 on the South Pembrokeshire Hunt, said: "This is the second Boxing Day since the Hunting Act came into force.

"Hunting has shown that it will not be broken by the ban. We have been able to keep hunts going because the eventual repeal of the Hunting Act is becoming inevitable.

"The Act creates problems for everyone from huntsmen to the police, and the sooner such a bad law is scrapped the better."

Anti-hunt campaign group the League Against Cruel Sports said it did not object to the Boxing Day hunts if they stayed within the law.

A spokeswoman said: "The League do not have a problem with hunts meeting to either drag or trail hunt on Boxing Day, as long as they do not violate the Hunting Act."

The League revealed it has created its own Prosecution Unit to help step up its attempts to crack down on illegal hunting.

It said the unit will use civil and criminal law to control the behaviour of hunters who "believe they are a law unto themselves".

Its launch follows the League's first successful private prosecution against Tony Wright, a huntsman with the Exmoor Foxhounds, in August this year.

Top QCs Lord (Peter) Archer, a former Solicitor General, and Anthony Scrivener, former chairman of the Bar Council, have already been recruited to act as legal advisers to the unit.

Despite the passionate views on both sides of the hunting debate, most of the day passed without incident.

Police arrested one female 'hunt saboteur' for carrying an offensive weapon, which turned out to be a hammer.

Anti-hunt campaigners say huntsmen have been exploiting loopholes in the 2004 Act.

Foxes can still be driven out of hiding by dogs and shot - as long as no more than two hounds are involved.

Another loophole allows birds of prey to pursue foxes. This has led to up to 30 hunts buying such birds.

Drag hunts, where riders and hounds pursue a scented rag, and trail hunts, where they follow a scent trail, are both allowed. If the dogs stumble upon a fox and kill it, that too is permissible under law.

It would be hard to prove a person with hounds had gone out intending to hunt illegally. The numbers of people involved and the large areas of land hunts cover make it hard to detect a crime or identify culprits.


Thousands of people turned out on Boxing Day to show their support for fox hunting, which was banned in Feb 2005
--------------------------


Hunting can still take place but it's now illegal for huntsmen to kill foxes with hounds. Under the ban, dogs can still be used to follow a scent - and foxes can be killed by a bird of prey or shot
-----------------------


Despite the controversy surrounding the event, there was still lots of festive cheer
-------------------------


Countryside groups said more than 200 hunts took place across the country yesterday....
--------------------------


... with young and old turning out to enjoy a day's riding
---------------------------


The League Against Cruel Sports said they were looking out for any illegal activity
--------------------------


But the Countryside Alliance said it was up to the police to enforce the law, not "vigilante pressure groups".

dailymail.co.uk
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Fox hunting is for idiots. Oooo, how brave are you killing that big, scary fox!? Join a real sport, wimps.

I certainly understand people having some doubts about fox hunting.......but wimpy?

Following a pack of dogs through the countryside on horseback at breakneck speed does not strike me as a past-time for wimps.
 

Hotshot

Electoral Member
May 31, 2006
330
0
16
All they have to do is hold on to the horse, and when the dogs corner a fox, they shoot it at a safe distance. It's cowardly.

No more cowardly than hiding in a tree, watching a pile of garbage waiting for a bear to show up so you can shoot it. Where is the sport in that?
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
Yep Delreg they were, do most posters know that the dogs are treated worse than the fox? Yep left in forests to starve to death, they just buy more dogs for the next hunt. I'm glad the hunt was banned, a rich elitest sport for fun. Oh how my heart suffers, NOT.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Yep Delreg they were, do most posters know that the dogs are treated worse than the fox? Yep left in forests to starve to death, they just buy more dogs for the next hunt. I'm glad the hunt was banned, a rich elitest sport for fun. Oh how my heart suffers, NOT.

REALLY!?

I'd never heard anything like that!

Got a source? I may have to switch sides on this one.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Theres no sport in hunting. Not unless it was with your bare hands. If they wrestled a bear to submission I'd be impressed.

This shows you have never hunted, and probably have never known well anyone that did.............

Come on down to NB next year............we'll educate you. :)
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
All they have to do is hold on to the horse, and when the dogs corner a fox, they shoot it at a safe distance. It's cowardly.

First of all, have you ever tried "holding on to a horse" while it tears over uneven ground, jumping fences and ditches, remembering that if it falls, it often falls on you? Not good.

Foxes are not exactly dangerous game. They are, however, rabies carriers (often), and chicken stealers, as well as hard on cats and small dogs.

Best keep the population down.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
I see it more as urban vs rural. And it is not just the elite, but the people who raise the dogs, take care of them, same for the horses.........it is a small industry that has spread well beyond the landed gentry.

I'm no big fan of fox hunting. I just figure pheasant hunting will be next on the list for the do-gooders.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Fox hunting is for idiots. Oooo, how brave are you killing that big, scary fox!? Join a real sport, wimps.
As much as i hate hunt for sport types, this has a long rich tradition. And as I generally stand on preserving traditions. This is one I would support, albeit, tenuously.

I certainly understand people having some doubts about fox hunting.......but wimpy?

Following a pack of dogs through the countryside on horseback at breakneck speed does not strike me as a past-time for wimps.
An excellent point Colpy. I'm not much for riding myself, but the wife loves the steaple chase. I would place a sizable wager, that Gonzo, pitted against my wife, would no doubt produce some laughter. It is not easy at all. The wife has had almost as many broken bones as I.
All they have to do is hold on to the horse, and when the dogs corner a fox, they shoot it at a safe distance. It's cowardly.
Yes I would have to agree with the end of the hunt being a tad one sided, but the means to the end, are frought with peril.
No more cowardly than hiding in a tree, watching a pile of garbage waiting for a bear to show up so you can shoot it. Where is the sport in that?
I could not agree with you more, stalking an animal has a challenge and mystique that matches no other. Using a Bow to end the hunt is another challenge altogether.
Theres no sport in hunting. Not unless it was with your bare hands. If they wrestled a bear to submission I'd be impressed.
I'll take you hunting Gonzo, if you can keep up without scaring off the quory, you will understand the passion.
Remember folks many of these people were the same ones that a few months ago were up in arms over the Canadian Seal Hunt.
I highly doubt these groups were amongst the squealing masses of doe eyed seal lovers.
Yep Delreg they were, do most posters know that the dogs are treated worse than the fox? Yep left in forests to starve to death, they just buy more dogs for the next hunt. I'm glad the hunt was banned, a rich elitest sport for fun. Oh how my heart suffers, NOT.
I beg to differ, many of these dogs are prized possessions. Cost in excess of $1000/s of dollars. Being such prized possessions, many have been collared with tracking devices. I know many a hunter, much against my particular feelings on the subject, use Hounds to course Deer, Rabbit, Coyote, and have spent countless days, following a hunt, trying to locate a lost, injured or wayward dog.

That's not to say that sometimes shyte happens, but as a rule, the dogs are more akin to a treasure, then a disposable tool.
REALLY!?

I'd never heard anything like that!

Got a source? I may have to switch sides on this one.
You will only find SPCA and PETA propoganda on the subject, that only referrence isolated cases. The associative norm is not as it would be portrayed.
I'm all for unleashing the foxes on the so called "hunters". I always get a laugh when "elites" are on the run.
LMAO ITN. I pictured an old Droopy cartoon after reading that...Out Foxed...

 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
7
38
REALLY!?

I'd never heard anything like that!

Got a source? I may have to switch sides on this one.

Well my sources are News Papers and a British exchange pilot from England, his family was extremely well to do and he educated me on the "Hunt", not all dogs are abused but a large percentage are neglected and never see the outside of a kennel unless it's hunt "Day". I'm not anti-hunting, in fact I grew up surround by a father and brothers and uncles that hunted and trapped for food. I don't considered chasing a fox on horse back through the forest hunting, it's a blood sport and I have no taste for object cruelty to animals. I grew up on the back of a quarter horse, and riding is rather easy once you get the hang of it and the only thing I ever chased or ran to "Ground" on a horse was my older brothers. Didn't catch them thou.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Well my sources are News Papers and a British exchange pilot from England, his family was extremely well to do and he educated me on the "Hunt", not all dogs are abused but a large percentage are neglected and never see the outside of a kennel unless it's hunt "Day". I'm not anti-hunting, in fact I grew up surround by a father and brothers and uncles that hunted and trapped for food. I don't considered chasing a fox on horse back through the forest hunting, it's a blood sport and I have no taste for object cruelty to animals. I grew up on the back of a quarter horse, and riding is rather easy once you get the hang of it and the only thing I ever chased or ran to "Ground" on a horse was my older brothers. Didn't catch them thou.
Why is it, I have no trouble believing that at all???!!!

I'm laughing at the mental images...
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
The whole thing has nothing to do with sport, I agree. Where hunting is allowed, shooting game should be done for meat, not for sport anyway.
On the other hand, suggesting that it would be sporting for a 90 kilogram person with wimpy fingernails and virtually useless teeth to wrestle a 185 kilogram beast with 6 centimeter claws and one inch long fangs is just as inane as organizing 20 or 30 people on horses with an equal number of dogs to kill a 8 kilogram fox.
Because the foxes may carry rabies and eat chickens isn't much of an excuse. Out here in the sticks, we have cougar, coyotes, owls, eagles, coons, etc. all after our chickens and pets (and some of those carry rabies), yet we don't organize fancy occasions with horses and dogs and an annoying, idiotic horn.to get the critters.
It is barbaric. Same with their birdshoots and rumbling along on railways shooting bison by the 10s of thousands just for the sport.
 

Dalreg

Electoral Member
Sep 29, 2006
191
1
18
Saskatchewan eh!
I'm not against hunting in any way shape or form. My problem is the method used. Right in the article people have admitted to breaking the law in different ways. Anyone here actually see a pack of dogs attack and kill a fox? I can imagine it isn't very pretty.

Anyone who hunts just for the sport I have no respect for you. Hunting for the purpose of putting meat on the table is totally different.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I'm not against hunting in any way shape or form. My problem is the method used. Right in the article people have admitted to breaking the law in different ways. Anyone here actually see a pack of dogs attack and kill a fox? I can imagine it isn't very pretty.

Anyone who hunts just for the sport I have no respect for you. Hunting for the purpose of putting meat on the table is totally different.
What if one hunts, by stalking, uses all they take, gives offerings and respects the animal they kill, for what the animal has achieve and is now about to give? Even though that person, can easily purchase meat at the local store?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Yeah.

The first question I ask anyone who complains about hunting is "Do you eat meat?" For most, of course, the answer is "Yes". Then I lay into them with "So, you think it is morally superior to hire someone to do your killing for you in a slaughterhouse, rather than to do it yourself, killing free game in fair chase." End of discussion.

If they don't eat meat, then there is room for a decent debate on freedom, man and nature.

The problen is a largely an urban - rural one. I laughed at the guy who writes the video game column in the Globe and Mail. After Cheney accidentally shot his friend, this guy reflected on how barbaric it was for people to actually hunt when there were nice, bloodless past times like Cabella's Big Game Hunter.

Hey buddy.

Move out of Mommy's basement. Get a life.