UK Bans Muslim Garb

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
U.K. schoolgirl loses right to wear Muslim garb
Britain's highest court backs school in case likened to French headscarf row

LONDON - A British girl lost a legal battle on Wednesday to be allowed to wear full Islamic dress in school in a case which has been likened to the row in France over the wearing of Muslim headscarves.

Shabina Begum, now 17, was sent home from school in September 2002 and ordered to change her clothes after she turned up wearing a jilbab, a long gown which covers the whole body except for the hands and face.

She successfully appealed against the school’s decision in March 2005 when the Appeal Court ruled her human rights had been breached by the ban.

Her case was championed by Cherie Booth, wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and a prominent human rights lawyer.

But Begum’s school, Denbigh High in Luton, north of London, itself appealed against last year’s decision and on Wednesday was backed by Britain’s highest court, the House of Lords.

The Lords said Begum’s family knew what the school’s uniform policy was when they sent her there and should have enrolled her at a different school if they objected to it.

Begum said she was disappointed by the verdict but proud to have taken issue with a ban which she and others among Britain’s 1.6-million-strong Muslim population regarded as a fundamental breach of their rights.

“Obviously I am saddened and upset at the result but I am glad that I can now move on, having made a stand to speak out against this,” said Begum, who was in the House of Lords to hear the decision. She has since left the school.

'Excellent news'
Denbigh High said it was pleased with the verdict while Luton Council, which had backed the school, described it as “excellent news”.

“We are pleased that Denbigh High has finally been vindicated,” the council said in a statement. “The school has always adopted an inclusive uniform policy that satisfies the religious needs and cultural backgrounds of its pupils.”

Muslim groups were dismayed by the ruling.

“On a matter of principle we are disappointed,” said Tahir Alam, education spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, the country’s largest Muslim lobby group.

“There are lots of schools across the country which allow the jilbab and this issue should have been resolved at a local level. It’s unfortunate that it’s gone through the courts.”

The case, which has rumbled on for 3-1/2 years, has drawn comparisons with the furore in France triggered by a ban on Muslim headscarves in state schools.

France banned all conspicuous religious clothing, including headscarves, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses.

The move sparked angry protests across the Islamic world.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
I don't understand why the jilbab would have been banned; if she wants to wear her religious clothing, why should she not be permitted to do so — citizens should be permitted, in my opinion, to wear whatever clothing may be required by their religious convictions notwithstanding uniform policies.

That's just my opinion though. However, I don't doubt that such a ruling would not occur under our Supreme Court of Canada (judging by recent decisions in relation to the supremacy of the freedom of religion in relation to regulatory schemes).
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
I don't understand why the jilbab would have been banned; if she wants to wear her religious clothing, why should she not be permitted to do so — citizens should be permitted, in my opinion, to wear whatever clothing may be required by their religious convictions notwithstanding uniform policies.

That's just my opinion though. However, I don't doubt that such a ruling would not occur under our Supreme Court of Canada (judging by recent decisions in relation to the supremacy of the freedom of religion in relation to regulatory schemes).

Here's the point you're missing:

The Lords said Begum’s family knew what the school’s uniform policy was when they sent her there and should have enrolled her at a different school if they objected to it.

There's a uniform policy in effect. It's not like a public school where you can wear whatever you want, they had a dress code. I highly about a jilbab is on the list. In Britain and Australia, children usually have a uniform to wear, this reduces social bullying based on clothing choices. I'm thinking that was the case at the school, and allowing this girl to wear the jilbab would violate the rule. At least in Britain the top court supports the rules, unlike the supreme (ha) court in this nation. They're not saying she can't wear her clothes, she just can't do it at a school with a dress code. Nothing is stopping her from attending a school without a dress code. Pure, simple, easy to understand. Go Britain.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
I do not agree with the merit of the decision, personally; I am not aware of which constitutional texts in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are those that guarantee rights and freedoms, and the like, but in this situation I would have preferred that the jilbab be permitted. If she had wanted to wear the clothing, then I would assert that she was confident enough so as to imply that bullying would not have been a major concern.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
If this is going to turn into yet another thread resolved to nother more than baseless and ignorant Muslim-bashing, consider myself withdrawn from the discussion.
 

Daz_Hockey

Council Member
Nov 21, 2005
1,927
7
38
Yeah Mogz is right, there isnt a single school in britain without a dress code, some are more flexable than others, but they knew this before they enrolled her, it's just another example of britain's ethnic minorities taking the pish...I'm sorry but it's true, most other school will exclusivly ONLY allow Muslim clothing to be wored because of their religion, but at the same time banned christian artifacts.


it's nearly as bad as the case of a catholic boys school forcing their kids to look east and pray to allah...it's PC'ness gone mad
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
I do not agree with the merit of the decision, personally; I am not aware of which constitutional texts in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are those that guarantee rights and freedoms, and the like, but in this situation I would have preferred that the jilbab be permitted. If she had wanted to wear the clothing, then I would assert that she was confident enough so as to imply that bullying would not have been a major concern.

You're missing the POINT. They aren't saying she can't wear it. They're saying she can't wear it at that particular school as they have a dress code in effect. If she doesn't like it, she can go to a new school. Consider it like this Five. I'm in the Army, if I feel it's important for me to wear hotpink should I be allowed, even though our national uniform is CADPAT? Sound silly? It's the same principle. They school has a uniform in place, and her garb doesn't follow it in the least. Therefore she has two options; get the school uniform, or go to another school. The same option would be provided to me. Get in my uniform, or go wear hot pink as a civy. There is no ethic slight here what so ever Five. The same rule would apply to a white male that showed up in jeans and a t-shirt. Get the uniform or go to another school.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Mogz, I would think that a soldier wearing hot pink would be more a matter of security than everyone looking the same, hehe. :p "Shoot the pink one!"

Nonetheless, again, I cannot agree; I see no harm in permitting someone to wear the jilbab to school. Perhaps some sort of compromise could be struck — perhaps a jilbab could be made that would use colours and materials and designs in keeping with the theme of the uniforms, while simultaneously satisfying the religious requirements of the person-in-question.

One's eligibility to be educated at the institution of one's choice should not, in my opinion, be dictated by the kind of clothing you wear.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Five, when (if) you go to clubs, isn't there a certain attire you should be wearing to get in? There are clubs that do not allow you to walk in with jeans, it is the SAME principle.

P.S. I think Mogz might look good in hot pink :p
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,412
1,668
113
I'm glad she lost the case.

In Britain, unlike in other countries, pupils wear uniform to school, and it's against the law to not wear one. Each school has a different uniform, and you can tell what school a pupil goes to by looking at their uniform and the colour of their tie. The rules should apply to EVERYONE and I don't see why Muslims should be different.

Also, her mother is a member of an islamic organisation that wants to create a worldwide Islamic state under Sharia law.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
FiveParadox said:
Mogz, I would think that a soldier wearing hot pink would be more a matter of security than everyone looking the same, hehe. :p "Shoot the pink one!"

Nonetheless, again, I cannot agree; I see no harm in permitting someone to wear the jilbab to school.

And I see no harm in a dress policy.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,412
1,668
113
Everyone should dress the same. That's the whole reason why Britain has school uniforms - so that all the pupils dress the same so that some pupils don't get bullied for the way they dress, and so that all the pupils go to school looking smart. If everyone else must wear a uniform, then so should she.

And I think wearing school uniforms are cool, because you know what school other pupils go to and whether or not they go to a rival school.

My school uniform was black trousers, blue or white shirts, blue pullovers, with navy blue ties with light blue and white stripes.

But if, when we were going home, we saw kids wearing a uniform with black trousers, bright red pullovers, white shirts, and with black ties with thin red stripes, we knew that they were from Smithills School and so we try to pick fights with them.

As my school was one of the best in the town, I had a tendency to walk past kids from other schools, making sure that they saw the colour of my tie and therefore knew what school I went to, and make them think "Jeez, that guy must be a swot. He goes to one of the town's best schools."

The crappiest school uniform in my town had to belong to Hayward School. They wore disgusting brown shirts with brown ties with silver stripes.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
All public schools in Ontario should have a uniform policy.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
So you're saying then, that if you do not want to, or cannot wear a uniform due to such being a violation of one's religious convictions, then one should not have the right to be publicly educated in the province of Ontario?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
No I'm saying that if you send your kids to public schools, they are going to wear a uniform.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
That makes no sense; every citizen should have the right to an education, and every citizen should have the freedom of religion — the two must be made compatible, and I see no reason why students should be forced to wear uniforms. They serve no useful purpose whatsoever — the student body at my high school voted about one year ago on the issue of uniforms, but on our student referendum 90 % of students opposed the measure.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Most students don't understand, and the matter should not be left with them.