Cuba-Bolivia, maybe Canada should get involved

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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HAVANA - Fidel Castro and Bolivian President-elect Evo Morales say cooperation between their countries will bloom despite U.S. worries about more nations allying with communist Cuba and a growing leftward tilt in Latin American politics.

The two men late Friday announced a 30-month plan to erase illiteracy in Bolivia, the latest move by left-leaning South American leaders calling for increased cooperation among nations in the region without U.S. influence.

Cuba also agreed to offer free eye operations to up to 50,000 needy Bolivians as well as 5,000 full scholarships for young Bolivians to study medicine on the island.

"Could it be that the government of the United States feels hurt that Cuba cooperates with a brother nation?" Castro said. "Does that offend the U.S. government ... is it antidemocratic, is it a crime?"

Morales, 46, said he would not allow himself to be pressured by Washington while in power. "I never had good relations with the United States, but rather with the American people," he said.

Morales, a coca farmer and left-wing activist, says he won't resume the U.S.-backed coca eradication campaign in Bolivia. But he has vowed to crack down on drug trafficking while promoting legal markets for coca leaf, which is used to make cocaine but has medicinal and other legal uses in Bolivia.

Castro and another close ally, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, have over the past year launched plans to share programs in social cooperation among countries in the region while rejecting a U.S.-backed plan for hemispheric free trade. Washington has expressed concern about their growing alliance.

Speaking to about 400 young Bolivians already studying in Cuba under full scholarships from Castro's government, the two leaders did not spell out details of the literacy plan.

But Cuba has launched similar programs in other countries, most recently Venezuela, sending Cuban advisers with educational materials to work with local instructors to teach reading and writing to disadvantaged people.

Cuba carried out its own literacy program in the first years after the 1959 revolution that brought Castro to power, sending young teachers into poor regions in the island's mountains and other remote areas.

Among the poorest and least developed countries in Latin America, Bolivia nonetheless has a literacy rate of more than 87 percent.

"We have agreed to the first measures of cooperation," Morales said, adding that his meetings with Castro Friday were "an encounter of two generations in the struggle for dignity."

Castro is the first head of state visited by Morales as he starts reaching out to other leaders before taking office.

"Our brother Evo possesses all the necessary qualities needed to lead his country," said Castro, who sported a miner's hard hat given to him by Bolivian mining union leaders who traveled with Morales to Cuba.

Although he won't be inaugurated until Jan. 22, Morales was welcomed by a red carpet, a military band and a smiling Castro when he stepped off the Cuban plane that brought him from Bolivia.

Castro, dressed in his typical olive green uniform, welcomed Morales' election as an important triumph over U.S. influence in the region.

"The map is changing," said the 79-year-old Cuban leader, who marks 47 years in power on New Year's Day.

Morales won the presidency Dec. 18 with nearly 54 percent of the vote — the most support for any Bolivian president since democracy was restored there two decades ago.

He left Cuba on Saturday to be back in Bolivia in time for a New Year's Eve celebration in his hometown of Orinoca. On Jan. 3, he departs on a world tour that will include Spain, France, Brussels, the Netherlands, South Africa, China and Brazil.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051231/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_bolivia_morales

Now Canada has a leftist tilt to it and even though most conservatives want to protray leftists as a minority, the fact is 'hard-core' conservative ideals is the minority in Canada.

Canada also has problems with the U.S. over trade issues and the americanization of Canadian health care is ever approaching.

So, as we turn to India and China, why doesn't Canada make agreements with Southern and Central American countries with regards to helping each other's health care, education (for aboriginals and others), and other sources. It is plausible, and it would benefit the Southern and Central American countries as well as Canada.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Canuckistan, Kanada, other names it is all good. I am just proposing a solution to Canada-U.S. problems. If you treat a trading partner as an un-equal partner, sometimes things like this can happen. Just look at Bolivia for example, it was purely American, had scandals corruption, the majority kicked them out and now has a leftist government. In times of trouble all options should be taken.

To note, I was only suggesting this because of Canada's relations to Cuba, for example Castro being at Trudeau's funeral.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Correction, from a leftists point of view, you don't have problems with the US, the US in itself is the problem.

If you call a couple of trade disputes a problem, I suggest you redirect your attention to the socialist cesspool which is currently called Europe, with their staggering unemployment rates, that has caused widespread emigration once again.

Do you think it is a coincidence the US and Canada have the same amount of unemployment? No, our countries occupy the most desirable place to live on the planet fueled by free trade and more importantly friendship on the population level.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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I didn't think it was too bad of an idea; there's nothing wrong with building new bridges. Canada should promote the establishment of new links with other nations, and improving its relations around the world. If partnerships and programs between Canada, South America and Central America can jointly benefit all of the parties involved, then why not?
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Correction, from a leftists point of view, you don't have problems with the US, the US in itself is the problem.

If you call a couple of trade disputes a problem, I suggest you redirect your attention to the socialist cesspool which is currently called Europe, with their staggering unemployment rates, that has caused widespread emigration once again.

Do you think it is a coincidence the US and Canada have the same amount of unemployment? No, our countries occupy the most desirable place to live on the planet fueled by free trade and more importantly friendship on the population level.

It is not a conincidence, but actually the U.S, trade dispute with softwood lumber is not doing anything for unemployment for Canada. For one, in the past two weeks, at least industries, pulp mills, and other industries connected to the lumber business, resulting in numerous job cuts going into the thousands of jobs, along with the automotive industry, because of U.S. influence. So, when new unemployment numbers come out, the Canadian unemployment will rise again.
 

Timetrvlr

Electoral Member
Dec 15, 2005
196
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FiveParadox posted:
I didn't think it was too bad of an idea; there's nothing wrong with building new bridges. Canada should promote the establishment of new links with other nations, and improving its relations around the world. If partnerships and programs between Canada, South America and Central America can jointly benefit all of the parties involved, then why not?

I totally agree! We have made a big mistake in putting all of our eggs in the the American trading partner basket and now they think they own us. I've thought for some time that we should be cultivating trade with other partners around the world. I'd never thought of our South American cousins as trading partners, but why not?
 

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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Not only trading partners but we can help each other out with regards to poverty, healthcare, and other issues that plague this country and the countries of South and Central America.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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I don't think some of you get it. You currently have a slew of free trade agreements with Europe, Israel, Korea and other countries. Your government cannot dictate to whom Canadian companies sell, the market will dictate who buys your products. Your costs to sell your product or service will dictate where you sell them, nothing any politician (other than establishing trade agreements, which you have already) can do to circumvent Economic 101.

Edit: And this is the primary reason why you sell to the US, it is not out of convenience, it is a matter of costs. Your provinces cannot even trade with each other to the level they trade with the US.
 

I think not

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Jersay said:
Even though it is probably suicidal but governments could control the flow of industry and where it goes by nationalizing everything.

Not even in that scenario can they do that, again, cost dictates your markets, not politicians.

What difference would it make if you manufacture (as a public or private corporation) a steel beam worth twice as much when you ship it to South America and yet remain competitive shipping to the US?

Answer: Nobody in South America will buy your steel, we will
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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What difference would it make if you manufacture (as a public or private corporation) a steel beam worth twice as much when you ship it to South America and yet remain competitive shipping to the US?

The point is is to lose that dependency on the United States. However, you make a point about the steel. It would have to be based on resources that all countries would be interested in. And it also has to do with agreements, kind of like the Bolivia-Cuba one, where both countries would support each other with regards to poverty, health, and other matters.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
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I just brought steel as an example, I could of used goats in its place. The point is, that no politician, political party can drive markets. This diversification cry from the left defies the basic concepts of economics which I admit do not profess in, but I know enough to make that claim.
 

Timetrvlr

Electoral Member
Dec 15, 2005
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I think not posted:
This diversification cry from the left defies the basic concepts of economics

This wasn't "a cry from the left", this was my observation of a very successful local businessman. I live in central BC and our economy revolves almost entirely around the forestry and mining industries. Almost all of the local sawmills sell lumber to the States and were really hurt by the 27% duty slapped on our lumber exports a few years ago by the US.

One of the local mill owners countered by building a new molding plant. He buys raw lumber from his sawmill and turns it into finger-joint moldings that are used as trim throughout new homes. Some of that goes into the US as a value-added product and escapes the punitative duties. But, the really smart thing he did was to develop a market in India for his value-added product. This looks like a good business strategy and I don't understand the reluctance of the other mills to adopt similar marketing strategies. They continue to do as they have always done.
 

Canucklehead

Moderator
Apr 6, 2005
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Timetrvlr said:
One of the local mill owners countered by building a new molding plant. He buys raw lumber from his sawmill and turns it into finger-joint moldings that are used as trim throughout new homes. Some of that goes into the US as a value-added product and escapes the punitative duties. But, the really smart thing he did was to develop a market in India for his value-added product. This looks like a good business strategy and I don't understand the reluctance of the other mills to adopt similar marketing strategies. They continue to do as they have always done.

We should be doing that with as many of our natural resources as possible. It would cause problems for a while to be sure since raw material is what is expected of us and the recipients add the value and sell back to us but that's the price we need to be prepared to pay for covering our own butts first.

As for Cuba, Canada is already a big investor in that country and, imo, the primary reason for not pursuing increased trade with Cuba, Venezuela et al is simply that we have a Liberal party which has purged the left-leaners in favour of a more right-slant and this new heirarchy in the party is reluctant to upset the U.S. (excepting of course the odd rhetoric to placate the masses, which even the U.S. usually accepts and understands)
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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ITN wrote:
That's good news Jersay, keep aligning yourselves with the likes of Cuba and North Korea, soon you will be referred to as Kanada.

Maybe ITN, you can show me a country in South America that has found success in aligning themselves with the U.S.. I'm damned if I can find one.
 

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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#juan said:
ITN wrote:
That's good news Jersay, keep aligning yourselves with the likes of Cuba and North Korea, soon you will be referred to as Kanada.

Maybe ITN, you can show me a country in South America that has found success in aligning themselves with the U.S.. I'm damned if I can find one.

Argentina and Brazil come to mind.