Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Zut

#1Nov 30th, 2005

A Toronto area man was acquitted this week of sexual assault after a judge ruled he was asleep during the attack, a Canadian newspaper reported.

The acquitted 33-year-old landscaper had met a woman at a party in July. Both had been drinking and fell asleep on a couch.

The woman woke up to find the landscaper having sex with her and pushed him off. He immediately woke up, but told the court he only suspected they had had sex after going to the bathroom and finding he was still wearing a condom.

A sleep expert testified at his trial that the man suffered from sexomnia, a sort of sleep walking that includes sexual acts, likely brought on by alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetics.

--

--

Legitimate defense or excuse for sexual assault?

Colpy

RE: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

HILARIOUS!!!!

Except that he got off.........no pun intended.

Right.

The sex while asleep is hard enough to swallow.....but he put on a condom in his sleep?

Where did they find this idiot of a judge?

Reverend Blair

RE: Toronto area man acqu

Dec 1st, 2005

It doesn't say that he put on a condom in his sleep, Colpy, it says that he went to the bathroom and discovered he was still wearing one.

I'd want to hear from more than one expert before I believed the sexomnia thing, but I certainly wouldn't discount it so quickly either.

TenPenny

RE: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

I'd discount it by the time I finished reading the sentence. It's utter crap. He was drunk. But that's no excuse. On the other hand, if two drunk people flake out together, it's hard to decide who's stupider.

Reverend Blair

RE: Toronto area man acqu

Dec 1st, 2005

Being drunk isn't the defence though, Ten Penny...a medical condition that may or may not exist is.

Something I'd like to know is if he knew he had this condition before. The story states that he'd had sex in his sleep with previous girlfriends. Wouldn't that indicate that he should take measures to not let it happen on a couch at a party?

And how come he was wearing a condom while asleep on the couch? What kind of party was this anyway?

pastafarian

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

The horror!!! The horror!!! I find myself agreeing with Colpy and TenPenny on this one. :P

It seems that a new "genetic condition" is created everytime someone wants to avoid responsibility for their actions. Frankly, I'm tired of it.

PoisonPete2

Re: RE: Toronto area man acqu

Dec 1st, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Being drunk isn't the defence though, Ten Penny...a medical condition that may or may not exist is.

Something I'd like to know is if he knew he had this condition before. The story states that he'd had sex in his sleep with previous girlfriends. Wouldn't that indicate that he should take measures to not let it happen on a couch at a party?

And how come he was wearing a condom while asleep on the couch? What kind of party was this anyway?

Answer - it is unfortunate that, while our Laws are written as sexually neutral, the judgements are often tainted with sexual bias. Drunken woman are 'raped' because they are not capable of informed consent, but a drunken man is still saddled with 'criminal intent' .

In this case it may be that this noble man kept a condom on at all times just in case his 'little problem' popped up. Like a boyscout.

missile

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

Sexomia? Another good explanation for those infrequent wet dreams

pastafarian

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

Look, any guy who's ever grappled around in the dark with a stranger, both drunk and even HALF asleep, knows its like trying to thread a needle on horseback--or so I've heard from reliable sources...

To claim that it all went off --yeah, yeah, but how else you gonna say it, "came together"?-- without a hitch while they were asleep just beggars the imagination.

missile

#10

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

It's more reasonable to think that only the lady was asleep ,and the horny devil just was taking advantage of her.

TenPenny

#11

RE: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

A "medical condition"??? Right. Being drunk is more of a medical condition than "sexomnia"....... It's really just a bull**** excuse, like being "addicted to sex"....It's a copout.

PoisonPete2

#12

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by pastafarian

To claim that it all went off --yeah, yeah, but how else you gonna say it, "came together"?-- without a hitch while they were asleep just beggars the imagination.

Answer - Ron Reagan 'did it' to America in his sleep.

tracy

#13

Re: RE: Toronto area man acqu

Dec 1st, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by PoisonPete2

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
Being drunk isn't the defence though, Ten Penny...a medical condition that may or may not exist is.

Something I'd like to know is if he knew he had this condition before. The story states that he'd had sex in his sleep with previous girlfriends. Wouldn't that indicate that he should take measures to not let it happen on a couch at a party?

And how come he was wearing a condom while asleep on the couch? What kind of party was this anyway?
Answer - it is unfortunate that, while our Laws are written as sexually neutral, the judgements are often tainted with sexual bias. Drunken woman are 'raped' because they are not capable of informed consent, but a drunken man is still saddled with 'criminal intent' . .

That's just not true. A woman who willingly has sex while drunk was not raped because she can still give consent, just like a drunk man can still form criminal intent. This woman was unconscious. An unconscious person can't consent and can't form criminal intent either (that is the basis of his defense). There's no gender bias here.

TenPenny

#14

RE: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

But I guess it's fair; she was unconscious, so she couldn't say "no", and he was unconscious, and unaware of what he was doing. I guess that explains why he was acquitted.

Because, after all, no one could possibly be held accountable for getting drunk and being stupid.

Hard-Luck Henry

#15

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 1st, 2005

I agree with ten penny; this man knew he was prone to this sort of behaviour, and that it would be made even more likely through alcohol consumption and lack of sleep. Getting drunk and falling asleep next to this woman was irresponsible at best. He knew what the consequences of his actions might be, and should have been held accountable for them.

I bet you'd struggle to successfully use the same defence if you'd crashed a car. I also wouldn't be surprised to find the judge was a man.

PoisonPete2

#16

Re: RE: Toronto area man acqu

Dec 8th, 2005

[quote="tracy"][quote="PoisonPete2"][quote="Reverend Blair"]
That's just not true. A woman who willingly has sex while drunk was not raped because she can still give consent, just like a drunk man can still form criminal intent.

Answer - read the case law in Canada.

Machjo

#17

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 9th, 2005

"A sleep expert testified at his trial that the man suffered from sexomnia, a sort of sleep walking that includes sexual acts, likely brought on by alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetics."

I'm sure there must be more to the story that just wasn't covered by the article. Perhaps someone tied him down and then injected alcohol into his veins intravenously. Since the alcohol was forced into his bloodstream against his will, and his sexomnia was "likely brought on by alcohol" (which some evil person forced into his bloodstream), among two other factors, it was therefore not his fault.

After all, sleep deprivation alone would just make me drowsy, and while genetics might make me more sexed up, a little inhibition can go a long way to solve that problem. But I can immagine that if I were already suffering from sleep deprivation and high libido, and suddenly these people wearing ski masks pulled up next to me as I was walking down the street, dragged me into their van, tied me down, injected some alcohol into my veins and then let me go wild on the town as part of a secret CIA sponsored experiment to test the combined effect of alcohol, sleep deprivation and high libido, I would hope the courts wouldn't hold me responsible for that alcohol consumption. Wouldn't you?

How' that for an explanation in his defense?

Colpy

#18

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 9th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

"A sleep expert testified at his trial that the man suffered from sexomnia, a sort of sleep walking that includes sexual acts, likely brought on by alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetics."
I'm sure there must be more to the story that just wasn't covered by the article. Perhaps someone tied him down and then injected alcohol into his veins intravenously. Since the alcohol was forced into his bloodstream against his will, and his sexomnia was "likely brought on by alcohol" (which some evil person forced into his bloodstream), among two other factors, it was therefore not his fault.
After all, sleep deprivation alone would just make me drowsy, and while genetics might make me more sexed up, a little inhibition can go a long way to solve that problem. But I can immagine that if I were already suffering from sleep deprivation and high libido, and suddenly these people wearing ski masks pulled up next to me as I was walking down the street, dragged me into their van, tied me down, injected some alcohol into my veins and then let me go wild on the town as part of a secret CIA sponsored experiment to test the combined effect of alcohol, sleep deprivation and high libido, I would hope the courts wouldn't hold me responsible for that alcohol consumption. Wouldn't you?
Quote has been trimmed

For God's sake, there are enough whacko conspiracy theorists on this forum.....don't encourage them!

Machjo

#19

Re: Toronto area man acquitted of rape, deemed 'sleep sex'

Dec 10th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

For God's sake, there are enough whacko conspiracy theorists on this forum.....don't encourage them!

Well, how else do you explain that the man was acquitted. Certainly if he had willingly and knowingly consumed the alcohol, he would certainly have been held accountable.

One issue though is how can one not remember having had alcohol forced into him. So perhaps the story isn't so dramatic after all. Another possible theory is that he asked for water and an incompetent bartender gave him taquila. They are both clear liquids after all, and a person with bad taste buds might not be able to tell the difference. Now if that's the case, then certainly he ought ot be acquitted because he was not aware that he was consuming taquila at the time, and had he known it was taquila he would never have drunken it and so would never have committed the rape. So I say we go after that incompetent bartender and hold him accountable for the rape instead!

Immagine, if I had committed rape just because I got drunk off taquila when the bartender had told me it was water, and so the alcohol combined with the two other factors in the article caused me to undergo sexomnia, I'd want that bartender punished to the fullest extent of the law. Immagine! I'd then have to live with having committed rape for the rest of my life, all because of an incompetent bartender! Now if that's the story, I hope they find that bartender and charge him for having caused a rape by switching taquila for water.

Hey, I think we're getting closer to solving the mistery of the acquittal!

tracy

#20

Re: RE: Toronto area man acqu

Dec 10th, 2005

[quote="PoisonPete2"][quote="tracy"][quote="PoisonPete2"]

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

That's just not true. A woman who willingly has sex while drunk was not raped because she can still give consent, just like a drunk man can still form criminal intent.

Answer - read the case law in Canada.

Please refer me to a link that says women are raped if they have sex at a certain blood alcohol level. Unconscious is one thing, plain old drunk is another.

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