Kansas Supreme Court Errs in Judgement

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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It appears to me the Kansas Supreme Court has made a grave error in judgement here. When a grown man gets involved sexually with a 14 year old boy, it merits serious prison time. The Kansas Court of Appeals had agreed with the state in the 17 year sentence. Why not leave well enough alone?

This sets a bad example and sends the wrong message. It tells adult sex offenders that they could go running around having underage sex with kids since the consequences will be little jail time.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,173003,00.html

Kansas: Underage Gay and Straight Sex Must Be Treated Same
Friday, October 21, 2005

TOPEKA, Kan. — Kansas cannot punish illegal underage sex more harshly if it involves homosexual conduct, the state's highest court ruled Friday in a case watched by national groups on both sides of the gay rights debate.

The Supreme Court sided in a unanimous decision with convicted sex offender Matthew R. Limon. In 2000, he was sentenced to 17 years and two months in prison because, at 18, he performed a sex act on a 14-year-old boy. Had one of them been a girl, Limon could have faced only 15 months behind bars.

The court High ordered Limon resentenced as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The court struck language from the law that resulted in the different treatment.

A lower court had said the state could justify the harsher punishment as protecting children's traditional development, fighting disease or strengthening traditional values.

Writing for the high court, Justice Marla Luckert said the Kansas law specifying harsher treatment for illegal gay sex is too broad to meet those goals.

"The statute inflicts immediate, continuing and real injuries that outrun and belie any legitimate justification that may be claimed for it," Luckert wrote. "Moral disapproval of a group cannot be a legitimate state interest."

National health groups and the National Association of Social workers filed legal arguments supporting Limon's position. A conservative law group, Orlando, Fla.-based Liberty Counsel, helped prepare written arguments from 25 legislators in support of the law.

Both Limon and the other boy, identified only as M.A.R. in court documents, lived at a Paola group home for the developmentally disabled. In court, an official described M.A.R. as mildly mentally retarded and Limon as functioning at a slightly higher level but not as an 18-year-old.

Limon's attorneys described the relationship with the younger boy as consensual and suggested that they were adolescents experimenting with sex.

Attorney General Phill Kline's office has repeatedly described Limon as a predator, noting he had two similar, previous offenses on his criminal record. Kline contended that such a pattern of behavior warranted a tough sentence and that courts should leave sentencing policy to the Legislature.

Kline's office had no immediate comment to the ruling.

Kansas law makes any sexual activity involving a person under 16 illegal, regardless of the context.

But Limon's attorneys note that had his victim been female, the state's 1999 "Romeo and Juliet" law would have applied. It establishes lesser penalties for illegal sex when the partners' ages are within four years and one partner is under 19 -- and specifically applies only when the partners are of the opposite sex.

In Friday's decision, the court said the "Romeo and Juliet" law was intended to allow less harsh treatment of consensual teenage relationships. Luckert wrote that purpose wouldn't be harmed by striking the language limiting the law to only opposite-sex partners. She wrote that the language "suggests animus toward teenagers who engage in homosexual sex."

The Kansas Court of Appeals rejected Limon's appeal in 2002. The next year, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a Texas law criminalizing gay sex and returned Limon's case to the state courts.

But in a 2-1 decision in January 2004, the Kansas Court of Appeals noted the U.S. Supreme Court case involved consenting adults and sided with the state again. Limon then appealed the Kansas Supreme Court.
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
785
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Ontario
Nascar_James said:
It appears to me the Kansas Supreme Court has made a grave error in judgement here. When a grown man gets involved sexually with a 14 year old boy, it merits serious prison time. The Kansas Court of Appeals had agreed with the state in the 17 year sentence. Why not leave well enough alone?

This sets a bad example and sends the wrong message. It tells adult sex offenders that they could go running around having underage sex with kids since the consequences will be little jail time.

You really CAN’T read, can you Jimbo? And nobody read you more than the title.

An ADULT will still get the same 17 year, 2 month sentence that would have applied before the Kansas Supreme Court intervened.

Rather than toss a minor into the clink for a longer period than he had been alive at the time of his "crime" a special dispensation had been set up for consensual sex between minors.

They wrote the law so that it discriminated against homosexual consensual minors.

The discriminatory wording has been removed, and, since this law applied, the 18-year-old mentally challenged person in question who had consensual relations with a 14-year-old boy will be in prison no longer than if he had had consensual relations with a girl.

Have no fear! Any ADULT having consensual sex with a minor will still be subject to the draconic, long sentences that your people are so fond or inflicting.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Oklahoma, USA
GL Schmitt said:
Nascar_James said:
It appears to me the Kansas Supreme Court has made a grave error in judgement here. When a grown man gets involved sexually with a 14 year old boy, it merits serious prison time. The Kansas Court of Appeals had agreed with the state in the 17 year sentence. Why not leave well enough alone?

This sets a bad example and sends the wrong message. It tells adult sex offenders that they could go running around having underage sex with kids since the consequences will be little jail time.

You really CAN’T read, can you Jimbo? And nobody read you more than the title.

An ADULT will still get the same 17 year, 2 month sentence that would have applied before the Kansas Supreme Court intervened.

Rather than toss a minor into the clink for a longer period than he had been alive at the time of his "crime" a special dispensation had been set up for consensual sex between minors.

They wrote the law so that it discriminated against homosexual consensual minors.

The discriminatory wording has been removed, and, since this law applied, the 18-year-old mentally challenged person in question who had consensual relations with a 14-year-old boy will be in prison no longer than if he had had consensual relations with a girl.

Have no fear! Any ADULT having consensual sex with a minor will still be subject to the draconic, long sentences that your people are so fond or inflicting.

NO GL Schmitt it appears you're the illiterate one around here. Don't you watch the news for heaven's sake? This was top news tonight.

I know for a fact that the court said Limon should be resentenced within 30 days as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The news also said this guy will be getting out of prison soon.

If you would have read the exerpt below carefully, you would have realized this. But alas, you can't read.

"The court High ordered Limon resentenced as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The court struck language from the law that resulted in the different treatment."
 

Tresson

Nominee Member
Apr 22, 2005
81
1
8
Nascar_James said:
GL Schmitt said:
Nascar_James said:
It appears to me the Kansas Supreme Court has made a grave error in judgement here. When a grown man gets involved sexually with a 14 year old boy, it merits serious prison time. The Kansas Court of Appeals had agreed with the state in the 17 year sentence. Why not leave well enough alone?

This sets a bad example and sends the wrong message. It tells adult sex offenders that they could go running around having underage sex with kids since the consequences will be little jail time.

You really CAN’T read, can you Jimbo? And nobody read you more than the title.

An ADULT will still get the same 17 year, 2 month sentence that would have applied before the Kansas Supreme Court intervened.

Rather than toss a minor into the clink for a longer period than he had been alive at the time of his "crime" a special dispensation had been set up for consensual sex between minors.

They wrote the law so that it discriminated against homosexual consensual minors.

The discriminatory wording has been removed, and, since this law applied, the 18-year-old mentally challenged person in question who had consensual relations with a 14-year-old boy will be in prison no longer than if he had had consensual relations with a girl.

Have no fear! Any ADULT having consensual sex with a minor will still be subject to the draconic, long sentences that your people are so fond or inflicting.

NO GL Schmitt it appears you're the illiterate one around here. Don't you watch the new for heaven's sake? This was top news tonight.

I know for a fact that the court said Limon should be resentenced within 30 days as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The news also said this guy will be getting out of prison soon.

If you would have read the exerpt below carefully, you would have realized this. But alas, you can't read.

The court High ordered Limon resentenced as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The court struck language from the law that resulted in the different treatment.


So your saying you believe that gays should be treated harsher under the law then a straight Person?
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
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36
Oklahoma, USA
Tresson said:
Nascar_James said:
GL Schmitt said:
Nascar_James said:
It appears to me the Kansas Supreme Court has made a grave error in judgement here. When a grown man gets involved sexually with a 14 year old boy, it merits serious prison time. The Kansas Court of Appeals had agreed with the state in the 17 year sentence. Why not leave well enough alone?

This sets a bad example and sends the wrong message. It tells adult sex offenders that they could go running around having underage sex with kids since the consequences will be little jail time.

You really CAN’T read, can you Jimbo? And nobody read you more than the title.

An ADULT will still get the same 17 year, 2 month sentence that would have applied before the Kansas Supreme Court intervened.

Rather than toss a minor into the clink for a longer period than he had been alive at the time of his "crime" a special dispensation had been set up for consensual sex between minors.

They wrote the law so that it discriminated against homosexual consensual minors.

The discriminatory wording has been removed, and, since this law applied, the 18-year-old mentally challenged person in question who had consensual relations with a 14-year-old boy will be in prison no longer than if he had had consensual relations with a girl.

Have no fear! Any ADULT having consensual sex with a minor will still be subject to the draconic, long sentences that your people are so fond or inflicting.

NO GL Schmitt it appears you're the illiterate one around here. Don't you watch the new for heaven's sake? This was top news tonight.

I know for a fact that the court said Limon should be resentenced within 30 days as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The news also said this guy will be getting out of prison soon.

If you would have read the exerpt below carefully, you would have realized this. But alas, you can't read.

The court High ordered Limon resentenced as if the law treated illegal gay sex and illegal straight sex the same. The court struck language from the law that resulted in the different treatment.


So your saying you believe that gays should be treated harsher under the law then a straight Person?

Not at all Tresson. I am saying that any adult involved in these acts with children should get serious prison time. Not a matter of months, but rather years. We need to convey a message that this is unacceptable no matter if gay or not. There should be a strict prison term for all.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
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Winnipeg
RE: Kansas Supreme Court

Nascar Nero, the man was mentally challenged. The sex was consensual. That it was homosexual sex is what's really freaking you out. You're pissed because the law decided to treat gays the same as straights.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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36
Oklahoma, USA
Re: RE: Kansas Supreme Court

Reverend Blair said:
Nascar Nero, the man was mentally challenged. The sex was consensual. That it was homosexual sex is what's really freaking you out.

With a 14 year old child?!?! God almighty! What has happened to our society? Seems to be heading further and further down the tubes.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Kansas Supreme Court

He was given the same sentence he would have received had the child been female instead of male. Your homophobia is showing, Nero.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
0
36
Oklahoma, USA
peapod said:
Exactly!!! like my papa always says don't mix your saki with a feki..this always saves you from going down the tubes.

I think in this case Peapod, it's prison time that will save us from heading down the ubes.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: Kansas Supreme Court

That's the attitude that has made the USA the largest jailer of their own people in the history of the planet. Land of the free my ass.
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
785
0
16
Ontario
Wrong again, Jimbo!

. . . Matthew R. Limon. In 2000, he was sentenced to 17 years and two months in prison because, at 18, he performed a sex act on a 14-year-old boy. . .

At the time of the crime, Limon was 18, and being under 19 he qualified for the “Romeo and Juliet” exception, except for the fact that homosexual consensual sex was excluded.

This excluding of homosexuals for lower sentences is what the KSC struck down.

Nobody — male, female, heterosexual, homosexual who is over 19 years of age can qualify for the “Romeo & Juliet” defence, and thus will be sentenced under the HEAVIER structure.

Perhaps you should restrict your media exposure to colouring books.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Well you know nero...he loves those headlines...ya know things like....ehm..."the tiddler who caught a whooper" or ehm..."sex secrets of forties, to saucy to be revealed" shite like that....talk about your pig in a perk eh??
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
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36
Oklahoma, USA
GL Schmitt said:
Wrong again, Jimbo!

. . . Matthew R. Limon. In 2000, he was sentenced to 17 years and two months in prison because, at 18, he performed a sex act on a 14-year-old boy. . .

At the time of the crime, Limon was 18, and being under 19 he qualified for the “Romeo and Juliet” exception, except for the fact that homosexual consensual sex was excluded.

This excluding of homosexuals for lower sentences is what the KSC struck down.

Nobody — male, female, heterosexual, homosexual who is over 19 years of age can qualify for the “Romeo & Juliet” defence, and thus will be sentenced under the HEAVIER structure.

Perhaps you should restrict your media exposure to colouring books.

As I've said, this guy is going to be released soon.

Here's a link ... then tell me who's wrong. As I said earlier, I saw this one the news last night, so I don't know why you are arguing the point, GL.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-10-21-sodomy-sentencing_x.htm
 

GL Schmitt

Electoral Member
Mar 12, 2005
785
0
16
Ontario
Nascar_James said:
As I've said, this guy is going to be released soon.

Here's a link ... then tell me who's wrong. As I said earlier, I saw this one the news last night, so I don't know why you are arguing the point, GL.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-10-21-sodomy-sentencing_x.htm
From your link
. . . "We are very happy that Matthew will soon be getting out of prison. We are sorry there is no way to make up for the extra four years he spent in prison simply because he is gay," said Limon's attorney James Esseks, of the American Civil Liberties Union's Gay and Lesbian Rights Project. . . .
When Limon was sentenced in 2000, he should have received 15 months according to the “Romeo & Juliet” exception.

Now, five years later, the KSC has ruled that the law under which Limon was sentenced, and appealed in 2002 was discriminatory.

That means that he has already served five years for an offense which should only have been imprisoned for fifteen months.

OF COURSE THEY ARE RELEASING HIM, SOON!!!

HE’S SERVED HIS SENTENCE FOUR TIMES OVER!!!


Just how much punishment do your homophobic insecurities demand?
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
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36
Oklahoma, USA
GL Schmitt said:
Nascar_James said:
As I've said, this guy is going to be released soon.

Here's a link ... then tell me who's wrong. As I said earlier, I saw this one the news last night, so I don't know why you are arguing the point, GL.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-10-21-sodomy-sentencing_x.htm
From your link
. . . "We are very happy that Matthew will soon be getting out of prison. We are sorry there is no way to make up for the extra four years he spent in prison simply because he is gay," said Limon's attorney James Esseks, of the American Civil Liberties Union's Gay and Lesbian Rights Project. . . .
When Limon was sentenced in 2000, he should have received 15 months according to the “Romeo & Juliet” exception.

Now, five years later, the KSC has ruled that the law under which Limon was sentenced, and appealed in 2002 was discriminatory.

That means that he has already served five years for an offense which should only have been imprisoned for fifteen months.

OF COURSE THEY ARE RELEASING HIM, SOON!!!

HE’S SERVED HIS SENTENCE FOUR TIMES OVER!!!


Just how much punishment do your homophobic insecurities demand?

Well, why did you say that I erred in my initial post then? What did I say that was incorrect?

Here's your initial quote ...

"You really CAN’T read, can you Jimbo? And nobody read you more than the title. An ADULT will still get the same 17 year, 2 month sentence that would have applied before the Kansas Supreme Court intervened."

Here is my inital statment...

"It appears to me the Kansas Supreme Court has made a grave error in judgement here. When a grown man gets involved sexually with a 14 year old boy, it merits serious prison time. The Kansas Court of Appeals had agreed with the state in the 17 year sentence. Why not leave well enough alone? This sets a bad example and sends the wrong message. It tells adult sex offenders that they could go running around having underage sex with kids since the consequences will be little jail time."



In summing up, the Supreme Court should not have interferred in this guy's case to send a strong message that his behavior is unacceptable (a grown man having sexual relations with a 14 year old child ... indeed). The Kansas court of appeals had withheld his initial conviction. Now this guy will get released soon. That is why the Supreme Court has made a grave error here.