CN

[Reverend Blair]

Canadian National Rail, run out of Chicago since it was privatised, has caused two environmental disasters in a week. The first was when they dumped a bunch of oil into an Alberta lake, and the second was when they they dumped toxic chemicals into a BC River.

In both cases CN was slow to act, making things worse, and has been unwilling to take full responsibility for the disasters they have caused. They are very careful not to communicate with the public or the media, and seem reluctant to even communicate with the government.

I'd suggest that it's about time we put them on a very short leash. Start with massive fines for the two disasters they've caused...say $10 billion...and hold them 100% liable for any costs related to their negligence. There should also be a full enquiry, run by the government but paid for by CN and CP, into the condition of railway infrastructure and equipment. If it is found to be lacking, then they should repair or replace it.

If those union-busting assholes in Chicago think they they can make a profit by cutting corners that lead to the destruction of our environment and the endangerment of our people, then they need to be taught to think again.

 

[no1important]

Well the bastards poisioned one of my favourite fishing rivers the Cheakamus River, I will be raging over this for years. Some of us have done a lot of work on that river, and to have this happen is very aggravating.The devastation makes you sick' I also see they killed a lake in Alberta as well with another spill.

As well the Cheakamus has 100's of Eagles around when salmon spawn. It is a great place to see lots of Bald Headed Eagles. Just glad too many of them were not around when this happened.

Its always profit first and safety and environment second with these guys. Campbell should never have sold BC Rail to CN. Or "leased it" as he says.

I wonder how much CN will get fined for either incident? Probably not enough to make them pay attention.

 

[Reverend Blair]

I saw the bit about the chemical spill on the news, No1. People's wells are unsafe, the fish kill is massive, and who knows what kind of devastation it has had on other wildlife. Definitely a case of criminal negligence.

 

[I think not]

How does a derailment constitute a case for criminal negligence?

 

[mrmom2]

ITN my Buds worked for CN repairing broken cars for 30 years .They shut down the repair yard here and moved to Van now he says the cars come in completely destroyed .That means that they are going through the Fraser Canyon missing wheels and parts .A recipe for another spill :roll:

 

[I think not]

The article said the rail had a problem.

 

[mrmom2]

Its called a lack of matinence and evr since they took over thye've done less and less and layed more and more people off ITN :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

They've cut crews and repair budgets to the bone, ITN. Those that are left are definitely not inspired to do a good job. CN own the tracks, it is up to CN to keep the tracks in good shape.

 

[I think not]

Its called a lack of matinence and evr since they took over thye've done less and less and layed more and more people off ITN :wink:

Actually I did a quick search and found CN Rail never turned a profit until the government started subsidizing them in 1978. Then in 1995 the government realized (apparently), that they had to get rid of it, and privatised it. No surprise here, very few companies manage to operate efficiently when run by the government.

Another interesting fact is that CN Rail acquired BC Rail in 2004, and the most amusing aspect of all this is that they acquired the right to operate on the roadbeds with a 60 year lease, the rails remain the property of the British Columbian government.

So to accuse CN Rail of "dumping" toxic chemicals along with criminal negligence after having acquired BC Rail for under a year is non-sense. If you want to hang anyone and imposr a $10 Billion fine, start with the BC Government.

 

[Hard-Luck Henry]

The wonders of deregulation, eh? The destruction of your environment is a small price to pay for freeing up the market for those lovely corporations. And try not to worry about the human lives it'll cost, either; just think of those tax cuts. Happy days.

 

[I think not]

As opposed to irresponsible and inefficient actions by governments. Air France crashed in Toronto, everyone called that an accident (because Air France is government owned). CN Rail derails, its criminal negligence. Funny that.

 

[manda]

As opposed to irresponsible and inefficient actions by governments. Air France crashed in Toronto, everyone called that an accident (because Air France is government owned). CN Rail derails, its criminal negligence. Funny that.

Well if you really think about the causes of each crash it does make sense.... Cn derailed due to a defect in the track that had overlooked...Air France skidded on a wet track that would have normally been more than long enough for a landing...and was well maintained the lables of accident and criminal negligence seem aptly applied to me.

 

[I think not]

I can't see why it is Manda. CN Rail just bought BC Rail, how do you expect a company to maintain and fix decades of apparent neglect in less than a year. Plus that rail was inspected 3 months ago. So explain how CN Rail should be accused of criminal negligence.

 

[manda]

I can't see why it is Manda. CN Rail just bought BC Rail, how do you expect a company to maintain and fix decades of apparent neglect in less than a year. Plus that rail was inspected 3 months ago. So explain how CN Rail should be accused of criminal negligence.

Obviously something was missed during the inspection, therefore somebody didn't do their job right, negligence in all of it's glory. If they can't repair and maintain the rails that quickly, they should not have been used until repairs over the whole track were done...and the inspections should have been more thorough. Now there is a huge health threat for the residents, and a ginormous fish kill because somebody thought that their job was a cake walk.

 

[Reverend Blair]

As opposed to irresponsible and inefficient actions by governments. Air France crashed in Toronto, everyone called that an accident (because Air France is government owned). CN Rail derails, its criminal negligence. Funny that.

That is being assessed by two governments on two continents. The questions they are asking include whether the plane should have been sent to an alternate and why the plane landed so far down the runway. They are even looking into the existence of the gully the plane stopped in.

In other words, ITN, they are looking to assess blame. They don't call it an accident, they call it a crash.

Actually I did a quick search and found CN Rail never turned a profit until the government started subsidizing them in 1978.

You should do a long search and find out the whole story, starting with the establishment of CN and working through right to its privatisation. Pay particular attention to Hansard, then follow up on the points brought up by the opposition in Question Period.

You should also have a look into the reputation of the Chicago consortium that bought CN. They didn't get a reputation that bad by doing good things, ITN.

Another interesting fact is that CN Rail acquired BC Rail in 2004, and the most amusing aspect of all this is that they acquired the right to operate on the roadbeds with a 60 year lease, the rails remain the property of the British Columbian government.

CN has been responsible for that line for a year. Roadbeds require constant maintenance, especially in areas like mountains, and a lot can happen in a year.

Put another way, if you buy a used car and after a year of not maintaining it the brakes go and you kill somebody, it is not the fault of the guy who sold you the car. That remains true no matter how bad the condition of the car was when you bought it.

 

[I think not]

I can't see why it is Manda. CN Rail just bought BC Rail, how do you expect a company to maintain and fix decades of apparent neglect in less than a year. Plus that rail was inspected 3 months ago. So explain how CN Rail should be accused of criminal negligence.

Obviously something was missed during the inspection, therefore somebody didn't do their job right, negligence in all of it's glory. If they can't repair and maintain the rails that quickly, they should not have been used until repairs over the whole track were done...and the inspections should have been more thorough. Now there is a huge health threat for the residents, and a ginormous fish kill because somebody thought that their job was a cake walk.

I see, and all these derailments should be subject to criminal negligence, including when the government owned CN Rail, right?

Maple, Ont. -- November 1998, about 350 workers at a CN Rail yard are evacuated when three cars derail, one containing anhydrous ammonia. No one is hurt.

Foleyet, Ont. -- June 1996, about 350 residents are evacuated. Two of 18 derailed CN cars carried anhydrous ammonia, but there is no leak.

Humboldt, Sask. -- November 1995, 5,000 residents advised to stay inside after CN train derails. Three cars are carrying anhydrous ammonia, but none leak.

Brandon, Man. -- October 1995, about 1,000 people flee a mall and surrounding businesses after a tanker truck carrying anhydrous ammonia flips and starts leaking.

Bonfield, Ont. -- February 1995, about 20 people evacuate their homes after nine cars of a CP Rail train leave the tracks. Two cars carry anhydrous ammonia, but there is no leak.

Longlac, Ont. -- May 1992, about 1,500 people are forced from their homes for three days after a CN Rail derailment involving a leak of anhydrous ammonia.

 

[TenPenny]

By the same token, every time there is a highway accident involving a truck, everyone involved should be charged with criminal negligence, and the highway should be closed until it can be rebuilt.

After all, every single accident is a direct result of incompetence or criminal negligence, right?

And I guess the Toronto Airport needs to be shut down, and all Air France aircraft, and all A340s should be grounded......and the air traffic controllers should be charged as well, right? After all, the A340 accident was obvious incompetence on the part of the pilots and the ATC. And the runway is obviously unsafe.

 

[manda]

Now I didn't say that all derailments should be subject to criminal negilgence...stop twisting my words there boyo afore I start throwing kasseri cheese in your general direction. It is what caused the trains to derail that should propmt the decision to lay any charges. A trucker who fell asleep at the wheel after partying with booze and floozies who crashes, charge him. a trucker who falls asleep at the wheel because his company is forcing him to drive 18 hour days...the company should be charged. Train rails not properly maintained or inspected., charge the inspector with criminal negligence. A train derailed because the General Lee hopped over the track and dropped a piece of the undercarriage of the vehicle; accident. This is fairly cut and dry...Lets stop kicking a dead horse and make up over pizza....K?

 

[Reverend Blair]

I see, and all these derailments should be subject to criminal negligence, including when the government owned CN Rail, right?

There should certainly be investigations into all such events, regardless of ownership. Nobody is saying that Crown Corporations should get a free ride, ITN.

There is a clear pattern of cutting corners at CN since it was privatised.

By the same token, every time there is a highway accident involving a truck, everyone involved should be charged with criminal negligence, and the highway should be closed until it can be rebuilt.

Excessive crashes involving trucks have led to increased regulation of the industry and of drivers, Ten Penny. Listen to some old truck driving songs, then compare what is in those songs to what truckers are allowed to get away with today.

In the case of CN, the evidence points to them being able to get away with much more since privatisation.

After all, every single accident is a direct result of incompetence or criminal negligence, right?

Every accident...or more accurately incident...has causes. Nobody was involved in the incidents in BC and Alberta but CN and its employees. The equipment was theirs, the infrastructure was theirs.

 

[I think not]

Now I didn't say that all derailments should be subject to criminal negilgence...stop twisting my words there boyo afore I start throwing kasseri cheese in your general direction. It is what caused the trains to derail that should propmt the decision to lay any charges. A trucker who fell asleep at the wheel after partying with booze and floozies who crashes, charge him. a trucker who falls asleep at the wheel because his company is forcing him to drive 18 hour days...the company should be charged. Train rails not properly maintained or inspected., charge the inspector with criminal negligence. A train derailed because the General Lee hopped over the track and dropped a piece of the undercarriage of the vehicle; accident. This is fairly cut and dry...Lets stop kicking a dead horse and make up over pizza....K?

My position is until an investigation concludes and warrants an accusation of criminal negligence, for now, it remains an unavoidable accident. And CN Rail btw has had a VERY long history of derailments. So why pick on this accident, because it's privatised I imagine.

And I made pizza on Saturday with Kasseri cheese HA!