Theo van Gogh Killed In Amsterdam

Rick van Opbergen

Women in Islam film man 'murdered'
Tuesday, November 2, 2004 Posted: 1108 GMT (1908 HKT)

Van Gogh: Death threats

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (Reuters) - A controversial Dutch filmmaker and newspaper columnist Theo van Gogh, who made a film about violence against women in Islamic societies, has been murdered in Amsterdam, police said.

Amsterdam police said Van Gogh had been stabbed and shot in the centre of the city Tuesday. Van Gogh's short feature film "Submission" angered some Dutch Muslims for its portrayal of a Muslim woman who is abused by her husband.

Police said they arrested a man at the scene after an exchange of gunfire in which the suspect wounded a police officer. The suspect was wounded in his leg. Some Dutch media said Van Gogh had been planning to make a film about anti-immigration populist Pim Fortuyn, who was gunned down by an animal rights activist in May 2002, days before his grass-roots party stormed to second place in a general election.

Van Gogh received death threats after "Submission" was broadcast earlier this year. He made the film with Dutch politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee who won Dutch citizenship after fleeing an arranged marriage 12 years ago. She has been under police protection after receiving death threats.

Source: (external - login to view)

911 days after the murder on Pim Fortuyn (look HERE (external - login to view)), famous Dutchman Theo van Gogh - descendant of the famous Vincent van Gogh - has been shot dead in Amsterdam. This is a real shock to me. Although I didn't agree with his ideas, he did make some beautiful movies, and now he has been shot dead just for having a clear opinion. What I do fear now are racial riots, because it seems the perpetrator is a Moroccan Dutchman. Lets hope these riots will not occur.
Rick van Opbergen
It makes me honestly scared peapod. I really don't know what this is going to lead to. I heard on the news that they have sent police forces to all neighbourhoods in Amsterdam out of fear of racial riots. So many people are talking about that the Netherlands is not fit anymore for living, and some express really racist ideas, now its clear the perpetrator is of Morroccan descent.
All the more reason to guard freedom of speech. Did he make lots of films?
Rick van Opbergen
Well yeah, especially the last couple of years, he made this controversial movie called "Submission" (as said in the article), I personally didn't like that one, far too biased and negative about Islam, but he also made films which I actually liked, mostly about problems of society, like a film about streetyouth, about boys who were living in a ghetto in Amsterdam and who were caught during a bankrobbery and sent to some sort of youthprison. He also made a film about two lesbians, and in December a film about the murder on Pim Fortuyn would be out in the movietheatres.
I will have to watch one of his movies. It makes you very angry when things like this happen.
Rick van Opbergen
Yeah I agree. This is Pim Fortuyn just all over again. It makes people realize that society is hardening on a high rate. I agree with our Prime Minister when he says that this is an attack on one of the foundations of our democracy: freedom of speech.
Rick van Opbergen
I was surfing on a condolences website, and first I have to say: 90% of all messages were normal, people were sad, but it were civilized responses. However, I choose three responses which scared me:

'Vanavond laten we zien we Nederlanders zijn!!! Moskees worden niet getollereerd!!!' (full of spellingmistakes, it says: 'Tonight we are going to show we are Dutchmen!!! Mosques will not be tolerated [anymore]!!!')

'Door hem te vermoorden hebben die tyfus naffers de confronterende woorden van Theo zelf bevestigd en onderstreept. Einde tolerantie en tijd voor actie!' (this one says: ' By murdering him [Theo van Gogh] those typhoid "Muslim bastards" [I don't know how to translate "naffers", but this is what it means for what I know] have confirmed and underlined the confronting words of Theo [van Gogh]. End tolerance, it's time for action!')

'hoop dat wij ons verstand gaan gebruiken als ministers!!! en dit te zoveelste al is. Veranderen de wetten als eerst en stopt het sponseren van dit soort maakken!! Bv Ali **** met zijn kut singel, vertrouw dit soort niet!! Eens een aap blijft een aap. Wij hebben een tip als nieuwe groep pak je spullen en verhuis naar een land waar dit soort niet kan leven.
Alle politici wij roepen u alle op om een heilige oorlog te beginnen pak alle maakken op en snij hun vingers er af! daarna beginnen we met hun oortjes omdat ze nooit luisteren! Martelen vertrouw ons nou dat is het enige wat nog werkt.' (full of spellingmistakes, it says: '[I] hope that our secretaries are going to use their brains!!! this is already such-and-such [don't know what he is trying to say here]. Change the laws first and stop sponsering these Moroccans!! for example Ali **** [Ali B, a Dutch-Morrocan rapper] with his ****ing single, don't trust this kind!! Once a monkey, always a monkey. We have a tip as new group, pack your bags and leave for a country where this kind can not live.
We call upon all politicians to start a holy war, arrest all Moroccans and cut their fingers off! than we'll start with their ears because they never want to listen! Torture them, trust us, that's the only thing that works.')
Rick van Opbergen
At this moment, tens of thousands of people have gathered at the Dam in Amsterdam to have a loud protest in honor of Theo van Gogh and as a tribute to the damaged freedom of speech. It is just so beautiful to say, almost makes me emotional. All those people standing there, making noise, to celebrate what we call freedom of speech. Beautiful. This day, November 2th 2004, will be the day on which Theo van Gogh was killed because he had an opinion, and it will not the day of the US elections 2004. But that's my opinion as a Dutchman.
This is so Terrible! *My Thoughts are with T.V Gogh* Rest in Peace.. Unbelievable.
Rick van Opbergen
Yeah I know what you mean JDream
I can't understand this..
Rick van Opbergen
I'm afraid what this will mean for the relationship between autochthon Dutchmen and Dutch Moroccans.
... This is just.. so terrible.. no words for it.
Diamond Sun
What a terrible thing to be happening. Our world is getting scarier and scarier. The tolerances and racial equalities that so many people want have a hard time beating down hatred like you show in those messages.

Thanks for sharing this rick.
Rick van Opbergen
Since a couple of years, 'zinloos geweld' ("useless violence") is a major topic in Dutch society. The roots lay in the hardening of nowadays society. I recommend all people to put on "Wonderful Tonight" by Eric Clapton (like me), or "Have A Little Fait In Me" by Joe Cocker, and just look at the list...

Nicky Verstappen: On August 10th 1998, eleven-year old Nicky was brutally murdered during a summercamp in the Dutch city of Brunssum. The case remains unsolved.

Marianne Vaatstra: On May 1th 1999, sixteen-year old Marianne was murdered when she was bicycling back to her home after a night out, and is found the next day in a field. The case remains unsolved.

Jantje Hertogs: On May 27th 2002, twenty-year old Jantje was randomly shot dead by a man who had just been turned down by a woman in a pub nearby. The man was sentenced for 15 years of imprisonment.

Meindert Tjoelker: After making a comment to a group of men who were pushing bicycles in a nearby canal, Meindert was kicked and beaten so hard, he died of his injuries (September 13th 1997)

Alan Roos
Alan Roos and Daan de Blok: On May 14th 2000, friends Alan Roos and Daan de Blok were both shot after a night out. The perpetrator, under influence of alcohol and drugs, "just felt like it". Alan Roos reached the age of 31; Daan de Blok reached the age of 22.

Joes Kloppenburg: On August 17th 1996, Joes left a pub in downtown Amsterdam when he saw a group of drunken men kicking and beating a homeless man. His last words were "Kappen nou!" (can be translated as: "Stop that!"). Joes was so severely beaten and kicked, he died several hours later in the hospital because of his injuries. Joes was 26 years old.

Daniel van Cotthem: When 17-year old Daniel brings his girlfriend back to the trainstation, a bunch of wantom youth start a fight with him without any reason. Although the fight stops after just some punches to the head, Daniel is found unconscious in his bed the next day. He has severe brain damage. The next day, Daniel dies of his injuries.

Now, the list is actually much longer, with people like Eddy Wind, Sabrina Smit, Loek van Dam, Martin van der Meys, of course Pim Fortuyn and now Theo van Gogh. Can you understand I'm disappointed in Dutch society?
That is very sad ricky. You better move to canada. But we have the same things happen here.
It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this. " - Bertrand Russell
Rick van Opbergen
Nicely put peapod, the quote I mean.
Yes its very distrubing when you see these things. We had a terrible murder here a few years ago, where she died is only 10 minutes from where I live by bicycle, in fact sometimes if I ride my bike over to galaniomamas, I pass the place. Here is the basics of the story.

Teen accused in Virk's murder asserts she tried to save the doomed girl

A P Kamath

Kelly Ellard, the teen accused of beating and drowning 14-year-old Reena Virk, admitted in a Vancouver court that she punched Reena but later tried to stop other girls from continuing the beating.

Seven girls and a boy were charged in the beating of Reena that led to her death over two years ago. But while the six girls were charged with minor offenses, Ellard is accused of giving Reena a second round of beating with the help of the boy, and holding her head under the water. The beating took place near a bridge not far away from their school in Victoria.

The trial is taking place in another city because of the publicity it has drawn in Victoria.

Ellard, 17, charged with second-degree murder in Reena's death, testified that when one of the girls called for the attack to stop, she (Ellard) grabbed one girl who continued to beat Reena.

Ellard's lawyer had suggested earlier that his client has been made the scapegoat by others.

When Reena tried to stagger towards a bus stop, Ellard said she called out to Reena to ask: ''Are you going to be all right?''

Reena had been staying out of her family house following disputes with her parents but the day she was beaten up, she made a phone call home, saying that she wanted to come back. But soon thereafter the second attack started -- and her body was found eight days later down the river.

Ellard said Reena swore at her and said ''everyone leave me alone.''

The court has heard a number of Ellard's friends and classmates say Ellard and Warren Glowatski, the only boy among the attackers, followed Reena after the others involved in the beating had left.

The witnesses told the court last week that Ellard later confessed to continuing to beat Virk, dragging her body into the waterway and forcing her head underwater by standing on it.

Glowatski was found guilty of second-degree murder and has been sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for seven years. Ellard's lawyer has said that Glowatski has spread lies about his client
Rick van Opbergen
That's just horrible! And this is the action of teenagers...
The worst part of it all is kelly ellard did not even know Rina Virk. Its hard to fathom how someone could do that to someone they did not even know. She has no remorse either. She appears defiant and nasty. Scary that this person will be living among us somewhere down the road.
Rick van Opbergen
Yeah I agree, that's just plain scary.
Just the Facts
Apparently the killing of Van Gogh is more than a random act of violence. It was an assasination designed to send a message. (external - login to view)
Interesting article, facts. I really don't understand why its ok to murder someone because of your religious beliefs. It make me grateful I am a atheist.
Rick van Opbergen
I like the article, although a lot of influential Muslim organisations have renounced this brutal murder, which is contrary to what Islam teaches its followers, and I do not believe a majority of Dutch Muslims stand behind this. At this moment, there are 1 million Muslims in the Netherlands; but as said by many, Muslim is more of a name they are given than they are actually practising Islam. I remember that for example only 30% of the Moroccan youth visits the mosque regularly; among Turkish youth, this rate evens falls below the 15%. I know that for example among Reform Christians in the Netherlands, 40%-50% visits church every week (although I do not know the figures for Reform Christian youth).
Diamond Sun
Hey Pea, as a victim of high school teenage girl violence, that Reena story hit close to home, and I followed the trial through to it's conclusion. It was really sick how Ellard really seemed to show no remorse. 7 years isn't long enough before parole though...
Really Diamond, how horrible for you. What happened? Yes the Virk murder was unbelievable, it was a shock to the whole city. She did alot of things not mentioned in the article, like butting a cigarette on the victims face. She should have to do those 7 years in a american prison in Iraq. I also heard that her brother has been in alot of trouble with the law, alot of it to do with violence. Makes you wonder where they learned this from. She is a very nasty piece of work for only being 17 at the time. Apparently it was all over a boy.
I did as you suggested, Rick, and played Eric Clapton before reading that.. very sad Random acts of disgusting violence really fightens me! I've seen people attacked before for little or no real reasons.

One thing I do know, is that when I lived in Montreal, there were murders all the time. Near my house, close by in pubs and mostly instigated by gangs... Hells Angels and other small guys I've never heard of There was this one guy who was murdered because he was hitting on some girl who was somehow related to a Hells Angels member.
Rick van Opbergen
Well there's also the story of two girls who were shot dead some years ago in a pub, I forgot their names. Outside the pub, two guys were fighting, one of them got a gun and shot at the other guy, he missed but the bullets went through the door of this pub, called Bacchus; behind the door, three girls were just getting their jackets, as they were planning to leave. Two of them died, one was seriously injured. They had nothing to do with it, and they probably didn't even realize what happened when that one guy started to shoot.
Dexter Sinister
Sadly, random acts of violence happen everywhere, but Theo van Gogh's murder is not one of them. This was not, in my view, an isolated lunatic who happens to be Islamic, it was a crime made inevitable by fundamentalist religious belief.

Some crucial facts, passed on by a friend of mine in Rotterdam, who I have no reason to doubt: there is in the Netherlands, and in fact in many western European nations, a militantly unassimilated community of fundamentalist Muslims, largely of Moroccan origin in the Dutch case, and they've ghettoized themselves. They live in the same neighbourhoods, they refuse to learn the language, or get educated, or find work, despite generous support available from the Dutch government to help them with that. They are led by a shrieking Emam who cannot return to Morocco because there's an open arrest warrant out for him there. These people are the dregs of the society they came from, yet they consider themselves morally superior to the culture they find themselves in and refuse to acknowledge its laws, claiming they're guided by a higher law--fundamentalist Islam-- that supercedes them.

They use the liberal Dutch laws to protect what they call their freedom of speech, and say unacceptable things like "all homosexuals should be killed." They have in the past threatened people who've criticized Islam, but this is the first time they've killed somebody over it. Theo van Gogh's murderer is a member of that community, and that makes this an act of terrorism by that community: criticize us and we'll kill you.

The Dutch are among the most tolerant people on the planet, but there are limits. No society can tolerate in its midst a large group that rejects its core values and is willing to take violent action against them. I don't know what the solution is, and sometimes I fear there isn't one that doesn't make the dominant society sink to the same level as its persecutors. What can you do, wall off the Islamic ghettos in Amsterdam and Rotterdam and burn them down? That'd solve it alright, but at what cost?

I see similar things in my own country. There's a militant community of expatriate Sikhs here, for instance, but so far they've only killed each other. And if we don't do something intelligent about the problems of our aboriginal population, especially where I live, in Saskatchewan, we're going to have serious problems pretty soon. Actually we already have serious problems, and they can only get worse if we don't do something.

But what to do? I don't know. If anybody does, I'd sure like to hear from you...


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