Canadians against Bush’s re-election petition
- Thread starter Chewy
- Start date
I also posted in on a predominately US forum
these are some of the responses:
"yea but chewy, you are forgetting the fact that nobody in the US or the world for that matter gives a shit what canadians think. your country has been riding america's coat tails for your entire history, you didnt win world war 1 or 2, we did. you didnt reform nazi germany and imperialist japan into economic super powers, we did. all canada does is grow my weed and bitch about issues they have no sway over. sorry to burst your bubble bro, but i think it would be better if canada sat in political obscurity like it always has over the years."
"in other words, you dont hear a fucking peep out of that asshole from north korea after we stomped a mudhole in saddams ass do you......just sit back and relax while the US fixes the world like it has done for the past 100 years.from hitler to stalin, you silly ass canuks would never understand since you have always warmed the benches while the US does the dirty work. bush isnt the badguy, crazy ass totalitarian dictators are, get a fucking grip please."
these are some of the responses:
"yea but chewy, you are forgetting the fact that nobody in the US or the world for that matter gives a shit what canadians think. your country has been riding america's coat tails for your entire history, you didnt win world war 1 or 2, we did. you didnt reform nazi germany and imperialist japan into economic super powers, we did. all canada does is grow my weed and bitch about issues they have no sway over. sorry to burst your bubble bro, but i think it would be better if canada sat in political obscurity like it always has over the years."
"in other words, you dont hear a fucking peep out of that asshole from north korea after we stomped a mudhole in saddams ass do you......just sit back and relax while the US fixes the world like it has done for the past 100 years.from hitler to stalin, you silly ass canuks would never understand since you have always warmed the benches while the US does the dirty work. bush isnt the badguy, crazy ass totalitarian dictators are, get a fucking grip please."
Riding our @#$# my @#$#$. We've been cleaning up their sorry little @#$# everytime they think someone is going to get them.
But have you ever noticed that all the warmongers aren't fighting the war. Kinda like armchair generals.
But have you ever noticed that all the warmongers aren't fighting the war. Kinda like armchair generals.
It's quite probably a 14 year old posting that reply, Chewy. I used to get worked up when I heard answers like that. They are just so backwards and brainwashed.
Most American don't realise that the mentality their heads are filled with are often incited by large corporations with oil interests, big business, lobbyist groups and corrupt government administrations.
And yes, we have been cleaning up their mess a lot.
Winning world war 1 and 2? Bull&*$#! WWII, as we ALL know, was won by the biggest alliance, which the United States only became part of after their selfish government was attacked by Japan. It was only until their interests were threatened that they decided to join the fight.
Most American don't realise that the mentality their heads are filled with are often incited by large corporations with oil interests, big business, lobbyist groups and corrupt government administrations.
And yes, we have been cleaning up their mess a lot.
Winning world war 1 and 2? Bull&*$#! WWII, as we ALL know, was won by the biggest alliance, which the United States only became part of after their selfish government was attacked by Japan. It was only until their interests were threatened that they decided to join the fight.
By the way, the world is in trouble if Bush keeps his office. We should have a say in what happens in this election, because Bush is a threat against the balance of the world. We will see much worse consequences from other countries Bush decides to attack than we saw from Iraq.
I have steered clear of the political bashing threads on this forum; it's easy to sit back and analyze from behind a border, albeit an eerily close one, the terrorist state the US is quickly becoming, but a whole nother thing living in it. The US is a beautiful country, and I have the pleasure of living in one of the most tranquil and rusticly historic areas of it.
But the current state of US politics is frightening to live under. We have lost control of our government. We aren't even sure what our government is doing, and the people are on the defensive. So the responses Chewy received come as no surprise to me. You should expect the flaming. However, you are taking the replies from the ignorant, and that isn't a fair analysis of the US population. That's like saying the quebec sucks thread is a fair representation of Canadians.
It is clear the Bush administration has become what it is so determined to fight, a bullying dictatorship that does as it pleases, totally disregarding NATO and international laws in the name of National Defense and "The War On Terror". I've heard that term until it makes me sick.
Bush and his posse have been setting this up for a long time. All Bush is doing is finishing what daddy started. Iraq is a scar on the Bush name, and the Bush's, a rich oil family from Texas, aren't going to have their name tarnished, and they know how to make oil money 8O
It is a fact Hussein needed to go. Although there have been wars and skirmishes in the Middle East for centuries, they mainly kept them amongst themselves. In 1968, the pro-Soviet faction of the Ba'ath Party seizes power of Iraq and appoints Ahmed Hasan al-Bakr president and Saddam Hussein is appointed in charge of internal security. In 1975, when Iran, the United States and Israel withdraw support to the Kurdish revolt led by Mustafa Barzani, Iraqi troops massacre thousands of Kurdish civilians and rebels.
The two most significant years that changed history in regards to US involvement in the Middle East were 1973 when OPEC put an embargo on oil to the western world, which crippled the US economy, and 1979, when :
a: A popular revolution deposes the Iranian shah Reza Pahlevi, Islamic clerics (ayatollahs) seize the power and appoint Ruhollah Kohmeini supreme leader of Iran, just returned from exile
b: Saddam Hussein inherits power in Iraq and begins a ruthless dictatorship
c: Iranian students take 52 Americans hostage at the American embassy, in opposition to the disposed ailing shah receiving medical exile in the US.
At this time (1977-1980), Carter was in the White House, and allied with the countries neccesary to try to get the embargo lifted. Iran revolted, taking US hostages and refusing to release them until Carter was removed from office. in 1980, The US people voted in Ronald Reagan (with George Bush Sr. as VP), and Iran immediately released the hostages. Reagan was a hero, and Carter scoffed at. (Ironically, Carter was the one who had started peace negotiations, and was making a bit of progress. Take a look at the Camp David Summit. He was also one of the US's best foreign policy speakers after his term as president). It wasn't until later that we learned Reagan traded arms to the Iranians for the release of the hostages.
In 1980, Iraq went to war with Iran. In 1983, Iraq uses chemical weapons against Iranian troops, and in 1984 the same to the kurds. In 1987, missiles shot by Saddam Hussein's Iraq kill 37 American sailors in the Persian Gulf. In 1988, there is the end of the war between Iraq and Iran that has cost about one million lives (600,000 Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis). Also in 1998 Iraqi forces attack kurdish forces with chemical weapons, destroying nearly 4,000 of the 5,000 Kurdish villages and killing tens of thousands of civilians.
During this time, Reagan is concentrating on the USSR, his "Star Wars" missile defense system, and a general campaign against communism. The growing Middle East problem is for the most part overlooked.
1998 is also the year George Bush Sr. takes office. In 1990, Iraqi troops invade Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia calls for US protection against Saddam Hussein. In 1991, the US leads a coalition that attacks Iraq and liberates Kuwait. Saddam has now dubbed the US "the Great Satan".
Clinton enters office in 1996. In 1998, to take attention away from the fact that he got a little head action from a chubby intern, Clinton bombs Iraq because "Iraq is not allowing United Nations inspectors to resume their job." Conflicts are overshadowed after this while we all watch the soap opera that is the Starr Report on Clinton's behavior.
In 2000, Bush Jr. takes office. In Iraq, sovereignty is fully understood. Saddam saw this as his enemy returned. A Bush is a Bush. And George Jr. is using the American people to launch a vendetta against Saddam. He has construed facts, lied, and bullied our nation into a state of fear and dependency on his "God given duty" to protect the democratic world from the threat of terror. He has played on the knowledge that Iraq has used chemical attacks before, and although Afghanistan was the nation that crippled US morale on 9/11, Bush quickly resolved this issue and immediately concentrated on Iraq and Saddam as the imminent threat.
So here we are now, dug in deep with too many strings attached, listening to a man we don't trust anymore trying to tell us what we want to hear, but showing the exact opposite. But what are our alternatives? Kerry and John Edwards? Edwards is from North Carolina, where I live, and is not a man I trust. Kerry is a ghost. He is very vaque on his issues, and noone trusts him to pull us out of our current situation.
Revolt? In the current state of "Homeland Security", under the beady eyed watch of Rumsfelt, any rising up will be considered an act of terrorism and will be squashed immediately and forcefully. We are a country beaten down at the moment. So America will probably repeat the trend it started with the Reagan era; When in doubt, vote the guy back in.
Bush has alot to answer for, and I feel he should face charges of crimes against humanity. Although,as I said, Hussein needed to be removed, Bush has done so in a very disgusting way. He has totally disregarded all advice from Nato countries, and broken many rules of International law. And he is dragging the reputation of this great country down with him. Of course he should be removed. Will it happen? Probably not by election. But please, when you bash the US, don't use quotes from the ignorant or ill informed. Some of us are very aware that the situation is wrong, and very concerned about it's impact on the rest of the world.
But the current state of US politics is frightening to live under. We have lost control of our government. We aren't even sure what our government is doing, and the people are on the defensive. So the responses Chewy received come as no surprise to me. You should expect the flaming. However, you are taking the replies from the ignorant, and that isn't a fair analysis of the US population. That's like saying the quebec sucks thread is a fair representation of Canadians.
It is clear the Bush administration has become what it is so determined to fight, a bullying dictatorship that does as it pleases, totally disregarding NATO and international laws in the name of National Defense and "The War On Terror". I've heard that term until it makes me sick.
Bush and his posse have been setting this up for a long time. All Bush is doing is finishing what daddy started. Iraq is a scar on the Bush name, and the Bush's, a rich oil family from Texas, aren't going to have their name tarnished, and they know how to make oil money 8O
It is a fact Hussein needed to go. Although there have been wars and skirmishes in the Middle East for centuries, they mainly kept them amongst themselves. In 1968, the pro-Soviet faction of the Ba'ath Party seizes power of Iraq and appoints Ahmed Hasan al-Bakr president and Saddam Hussein is appointed in charge of internal security. In 1975, when Iran, the United States and Israel withdraw support to the Kurdish revolt led by Mustafa Barzani, Iraqi troops massacre thousands of Kurdish civilians and rebels.
The two most significant years that changed history in regards to US involvement in the Middle East were 1973 when OPEC put an embargo on oil to the western world, which crippled the US economy, and 1979, when :
a: A popular revolution deposes the Iranian shah Reza Pahlevi, Islamic clerics (ayatollahs) seize the power and appoint Ruhollah Kohmeini supreme leader of Iran, just returned from exile
b: Saddam Hussein inherits power in Iraq and begins a ruthless dictatorship
c: Iranian students take 52 Americans hostage at the American embassy, in opposition to the disposed ailing shah receiving medical exile in the US.
At this time (1977-1980), Carter was in the White House, and allied with the countries neccesary to try to get the embargo lifted. Iran revolted, taking US hostages and refusing to release them until Carter was removed from office. in 1980, The US people voted in Ronald Reagan (with George Bush Sr. as VP), and Iran immediately released the hostages. Reagan was a hero, and Carter scoffed at. (Ironically, Carter was the one who had started peace negotiations, and was making a bit of progress. Take a look at the Camp David Summit. He was also one of the US's best foreign policy speakers after his term as president). It wasn't until later that we learned Reagan traded arms to the Iranians for the release of the hostages.
In 1980, Iraq went to war with Iran. In 1983, Iraq uses chemical weapons against Iranian troops, and in 1984 the same to the kurds. In 1987, missiles shot by Saddam Hussein's Iraq kill 37 American sailors in the Persian Gulf. In 1988, there is the end of the war between Iraq and Iran that has cost about one million lives (600,000 Iranians and 400,000 Iraqis). Also in 1998 Iraqi forces attack kurdish forces with chemical weapons, destroying nearly 4,000 of the 5,000 Kurdish villages and killing tens of thousands of civilians.
During this time, Reagan is concentrating on the USSR, his "Star Wars" missile defense system, and a general campaign against communism. The growing Middle East problem is for the most part overlooked.
1998 is also the year George Bush Sr. takes office. In 1990, Iraqi troops invade Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia calls for US protection against Saddam Hussein. In 1991, the US leads a coalition that attacks Iraq and liberates Kuwait. Saddam has now dubbed the US "the Great Satan".
Clinton enters office in 1996. In 1998, to take attention away from the fact that he got a little head action from a chubby intern, Clinton bombs Iraq because "Iraq is not allowing United Nations inspectors to resume their job." Conflicts are overshadowed after this while we all watch the soap opera that is the Starr Report on Clinton's behavior.
In 2000, Bush Jr. takes office. In Iraq, sovereignty is fully understood. Saddam saw this as his enemy returned. A Bush is a Bush. And George Jr. is using the American people to launch a vendetta against Saddam. He has construed facts, lied, and bullied our nation into a state of fear and dependency on his "God given duty" to protect the democratic world from the threat of terror. He has played on the knowledge that Iraq has used chemical attacks before, and although Afghanistan was the nation that crippled US morale on 9/11, Bush quickly resolved this issue and immediately concentrated on Iraq and Saddam as the imminent threat.
So here we are now, dug in deep with too many strings attached, listening to a man we don't trust anymore trying to tell us what we want to hear, but showing the exact opposite. But what are our alternatives? Kerry and John Edwards? Edwards is from North Carolina, where I live, and is not a man I trust. Kerry is a ghost. He is very vaque on his issues, and noone trusts him to pull us out of our current situation.
Revolt? In the current state of "Homeland Security", under the beady eyed watch of Rumsfelt, any rising up will be considered an act of terrorism and will be squashed immediately and forcefully. We are a country beaten down at the moment. So America will probably repeat the trend it started with the Reagan era; When in doubt, vote the guy back in.
Bush has alot to answer for, and I feel he should face charges of crimes against humanity. Although,as I said, Hussein needed to be removed, Bush has done so in a very disgusting way. He has totally disregarded all advice from Nato countries, and broken many rules of International law. And he is dragging the reputation of this great country down with him. Of course he should be removed. Will it happen? Probably not by election. But please, when you bash the US, don't use quotes from the ignorant or ill informed. Some of us are very aware that the situation is wrong, and very concerned about it's impact on the rest of the world.
It is a fair analysis of the response you can expect on the internet though, Prometheus...and on talk radio for that matter. It is also something that goes back to Reagan. Remember that right-wing talk radio became incredibly popular just before he was elected in 1980. The tactics on the internet are the same...call names, misrepresent or ignore facts, invoke God and country every chance you get, refer to opinion columns as fact and factual news as opinion, always appeal to emotion instead of intellect.
I've heard that it started out as Moral Majority-sponsored letter writing campaigns targeting men's magazines and objectionable TV shows like Three's Company, but I don't know if that's correct. Things I've read about the Scopes Monkey Trial have letters to the editor and other public discourse that bears an eerie resemblance to what we see today.
It also isn't just an American phenomenon. The same tactics are often used by those on the far right here in Canada...witness the Harper campaign's assertion that Paul Martin supported child pornography. The tactic is less successful here because our media still tends to lean towards facts, but that is changing.
It is a fair representation of how one can expect to be treated if they dare to speak out against the right though. That is the part of the US that is overwhelmingly represented in the media and on the internet.
Reverend Blair, this is a very good assestment of when polititical power and religious lines became fuzzy. I have promised Peapod an answer in her Religion thread on Reagan and his effects on the American people today, including our views on the rest of the world and how the rest of the world views us. Will have to wait on that one
My point here is that there is a history behind the current events that can only be seen through American eyes. What you see on the internet and talk radio is the same garbage that is force fed to the American people by our government and it's money mongers. Most of the responses you get are from the young who have no idea what has transpired in American history and brought us to this point. They just regurgitate the same garbage they have heard their entire life.
I am 33 years old, and a product of the Reagan administration. I grew up within the 8 years of his leadership. I have had the opportunity to see both Americas, the one shown to the rest of the world, and the one I choose to live in, which is the group of people whose views are much closer to your own than you might believe. Although I feel we are quickly becoming a minority, I will die with my beliefs that our government uses it's people for their own political and monetary gain, and has used Islam and the trouble in the Middle East to push it's agenda through in the name of their Christian god (Again, that one is for the religion post :roll: )
This is also true, due to the fact that the media and US government dip from the same wallet. If I post what I did on an American forum, I would be marked as a terrorist sympathiser at the least, and possibly even have my ISP and telephone monitored. Land of the Free? Not anymore.
Back to work, more later. Keep the responses coming, this is one American who is very removed from the far Right and common media (CNN, bleh) and I am interested in what opinions the people here have on this subject.
Shirley, the lives of Americans are expendable to the Bush cause. He is sending our families to fight and die for his dirty crusades. This is another reason for the responses generated from Americans. We are torn between doing what we feel is right, doing what we are told is right, and losing members of our families in the process.
Wow! people actually starting to talk honestly, no cut and paste and links. Keep it up I might actually have to start and really think :lol:
Prometheus, it is refreshing to read your point of view on this subject. As many others here, what I've read on other forums, i.e. canadaka.net, from other United Staters is the constant "We are THE nation", "Canada sucks, if it weren't for us, Canada wouldn't exists" and so on....
I have enough judgement(I Think :scratch: ) to know that most of the people replying those kind of lines are people that don't know what they're talking about or don't want to admit that their government screwed up big times. It's easier for people to think that they're right, when you see all the anti-american feeling around the world, must be conforting for them to think that the world is wrong, not them.
I, for myself, am not anti-american, I just hate the present government, not the people, I'm too young(28 ) to remember what Reagan did and did not, but what is going on right now worries me a lot. I don't only think for the present, I think about the future of our world, what will become of it if it keeps on like it is right now.
Anyway, only wanted to say that it's nice to know that not all of your people are at a loss! :wink:
I have enough judgement(I Think :scratch: ) to know that most of the people replying those kind of lines are people that don't know what they're talking about or don't want to admit that their government screwed up big times. It's easier for people to think that they're right, when you see all the anti-american feeling around the world, must be conforting for them to think that the world is wrong, not them.
I, for myself, am not anti-american, I just hate the present government, not the people, I'm too young(28 ) to remember what Reagan did and did not, but what is going on right now worries me a lot. I don't only think for the present, I think about the future of our world, what will become of it if it keeps on like it is right now.
Anyway, only wanted to say that it's nice to know that not all of your people are at a loss! :wink:
Yes its very easy to lump an entire nation on the doings of a handfull. Its happens all the time. Its much easier to come up with answers that way.
Amercians are not the only ones either that have dark parts to their militrary history either, we have plenty right in our own country. I will give you an example. When I did my family history, a journey that every person should make. A relative I found in Maine sent me a show box of pictures and letters that had come into her possession, handed down over the years, kept in her dusty old trunk in the attic. These letters were written in world war one from france, where my ancestor fought in yepers. Most are to his mother. How he could have wrote such letters is still a mystery to me, as mail was censored then, and I am pretty sure what he wrote would not have been allowed to pass the mail system than.
These letters were very distrubing, it made me read everything I could about world war one, and I can tell you there was no braver boy than a canadian, even though our government sent them into hell without proper equipment, so that bastard hughes could make himself a rich man.
I know this because my ancestor talked in his letters of the Ross rifle issued to himself and others, lousy guns, mostly failed, a hunting gun, sent for boys to use againist mustard gas and machine guns. He talked about his chums being mowed down, and the rifles not working. Hughes knew this, he was a member of the government he stood to make alot of money from this lousy gun, to hell with human life. I have donated these letters to the national archives in ottawa. It easy to point a finger but if you have ever held out your hand and pointed your finger, you will notice there are three pointing back at yourself.
Amercians are not the only ones either that have dark parts to their militrary history either, we have plenty right in our own country. I will give you an example. When I did my family history, a journey that every person should make. A relative I found in Maine sent me a show box of pictures and letters that had come into her possession, handed down over the years, kept in her dusty old trunk in the attic. These letters were written in world war one from france, where my ancestor fought in yepers. Most are to his mother. How he could have wrote such letters is still a mystery to me, as mail was censored then, and I am pretty sure what he wrote would not have been allowed to pass the mail system than.
These letters were very distrubing, it made me read everything I could about world war one, and I can tell you there was no braver boy than a canadian, even though our government sent them into hell without proper equipment, so that bastard hughes could make himself a rich man.
I know this because my ancestor talked in his letters of the Ross rifle issued to himself and others, lousy guns, mostly failed, a hunting gun, sent for boys to use againist mustard gas and machine guns. He talked about his chums being mowed down, and the rifles not working. Hughes knew this, he was a member of the government he stood to make alot of money from this lousy gun, to hell with human life. I have donated these letters to the national archives in ottawa. It easy to point a finger but if you have ever held out your hand and pointed your finger, you will notice there are three pointing back at yourself.
Chewy,
I don't agree with what you said regarding america only entering world war two when it threated them, what do you base those facts on...please explain I am interested.
I don't agree with what you said regarding america only entering world war two when it threated them, what do you base those facts on...please explain I am interested.
peapod said:
I'm sorry I wasn't able to follow you was it on this thread?
I posted this, is this what your refering too? I'd happy to answere if you could quote it for me. thx
There was some mention to the fact I should not surprised at the Flaming for my opinions, I’m not. I also don’t mind the attacks on our country most are cast out of anger or ignorance and when that is pointed out many acquiesce their hardened verbal assaults. The point keeps being brought up why do I want to have a stake in this, why do I wish to present my opinion. Simply as a Canadian I see myself as a citizen of the world; my citizenship allows me to promote peace. It also drops a few jaws when I tell them I gave up my citizenship in the US to be a Canadian. I have no animosity toward the people the American people. I love the US but its politics abroad are something I can support or indorse. It’s a great country and many fantastic people take occupancy within those borders. However, the government of that country is untrustworthy; it is at time malicious and performs against my better judgment. I love living in a nation that celebrates its peacekeepers, I’m very proud of that tradition. Iraq is not a peace keeping mission, nor is it liberation. Freedom can not be imposed it has to be earned, and desired by the people. The act of removing dictators or evil leaders should not lie on the shoulders of those that can reap benefits for doing so. The two greatest crimes are against the people of Iraq and what is happening to them and the people of the US that believe their actions are justified.
Chewy, honest, I only ask these questions because I am confused from all the different messages I hear. I am sure the majority of canadians know that we do not like what the american government is doing or their policies, but we don't paint the whole nation with the same pastry brush.
There are many great thinkers and ordinary people in america that do not agree with their government and its policies. There are canadians that talk just like the american people you posted above, just dumb ass with silly threats. A handful of people, just like the handful that run the american government and their policies.
I can assure you the things that canadians were saying at the CBC board were so off the charts againist america, religions, races. That board had to be closed down. We are all guilty of saying dumb ass things, as long as that is not way we really feel when push comes to shove.
There are many great thinkers and ordinary people in america that do not agree with their government and its policies. There are canadians that talk just like the american people you posted above, just dumb ass with silly threats. A handful of people, just like the handful that run the american government and their policies.
I can assure you the things that canadians were saying at the CBC board were so off the charts againist america, religions, races. That board had to be closed down. We are all guilty of saying dumb ass things, as long as that is not way we really feel when push comes to shove.
As am I.peapod said:
Agreed that would irresponsible. However we do have a responciblity to let our neighbours know we are not happy.peapod said:
In Canada I see the numbers dwindling fast, Canadians don't have the same jingoist attitude that is found in the US, some people in the US remain attached to their party even though they disagree with the efforts they are making.peapod said:
The potential for being asshole run rampent in all of us. But Canadians as a whole respond to things differently, we will talk fervently when the situation warrants it but we don’t seem to react from fear or become excessively aggressive toward others. That’s not true for the US.peapod said: