MSNBC Forum Censorship

I have a couple of US war crimes video on my website that are top links - particularly by the US military.

I regularly check back my logs and I saw that a MSNBC forum posted two threads with links.

I checked it out and a reply to this person who posted was "this thread is about to be pulled." This subject was NOT out of topic for this forum i.e. someone spamming into a wrong category, etc.

I wrote a reply with background info and it was posted. A few seconds later. POOF!

They are indeed gone.

When it comes to the truth mainstream media is quite touchy...

I find this rather chilling

Robert Fisk: Pictures of wounded men being shot censored by TV

The pictures are appalling, the words devastating. As a wounded Iraqi crawls from beneath a burning truck, an American helicopter pilot tells his commander that one of three men has survived his night air attack. "Someone wounded," the pilot cries. Then he received the reply: "Hit him, hit the truck and him."

As the helicopter's gun camera captures the scene on video, the pilot fires a 30mm gun at the wounded man, vaporising him in a second.

British and most European television stations censored the tape off the air last night on the grounds that the pictures were too terrible to show. But deliberately shooting a wounded man is a war crime under the Geneva Conventions and this extraordinary film of US air crews in action over Iraq is likely to create yet another international outcry.

American and British personnel have been trying for weeks to persuade Western television stations to show the video of the attack. Despite the efforts of reports in Baghdad and New York, most television controllers preferred to hide the evidence from viewers. Only Canal Plus in France, ABC television in the United States and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation have so far had the courage to show the shocking footage. UK military personnel in the Gulf region have confirmed that the tape is genuine.

I see alot of that, not so much the deleting of posts but alot of articles promoting or showing one side of an issue. I'm not sure where you are but I'm here in Canada (BC to be exact) and the Asper family owns alot of the newspapers here. Not one of the newspapers would ever write an article that would make the Israelis look bad, only the Palestinians can look bad. Nor will they print any letters like that either. MSNBC probably deleted it because it was against the editor's viewpoint or the owner's viewpoint. Personally I find this very wrong. There are always 2 sides two every story and each side deserves to have their side told.

Now I'm not anti-semitic (sp?) at all, just a fact that I wanted to point out. These decisions are being made based on someone's voting preference or beliefs and nothing whatsoever to do with news reporting.
It's a horrible thing when censorship like that happens, especially by such a large corporation as MSNBC.

There's tons of newspapers like that in Canada, bevvyd. Most of them are jewish-owned and hense there's a lack of anti-israel statements throughout the media. There's only the Internet where you might find a second opinion and there's a lot of that on the net. My opinion is based on a wide array of facts and information I've found on the Internet. It's a good thing local newspapers no longer have complete control over the minds of citizens.

Vista, I can't get enough of your avatars! Siamese cats, I love em. Apart from that, do you have a url to the MSNBC forums? I tried a quick search on google and only came up with independently run msn groups.
Andem, here is a link to a general group page... (external - login to view)

This is the page where the thread was - it is nothing now. (external - login to view)

My feeling about the MSNBC incident is it was Big Brother. The same way pictures of "transfer tubes" - as the Pentagon calls them - these coffins of dead U.S. soldiers is verbotten - censored.

MSNBC forum is mainstream and must adhere to the corporate rule and view of the world - unlike Canadian Content or other independent forums.

But how the heck does one get an "unapproved" message across when the Ministry of Truth has the door under lock and key?

My avatars our my boys - they're about 15 now.
if you have a link to the video I'll try and post it on another forum. I mean they can't stop us all.
Curiously, these videos have had wide-spread distribution on the web but I still get new discussion forums discussing these videos.

During the Stanely Cup playoffs with Toronto, the CBC showed this (as if it was the first time for them - it wasn't). The next few days everyone was searching for this on the web.

Here is the original from the ABC news article... (external - login to view)

Here is Chris King Pop Icon's version... (nice guy) Crank your speakers before you load. (external - login to view)

Just recently this is puportedly to be a "civilian" massacre in Fallujah. Unfortunately, I can't find anything in independant media on this. (external - login to view)

Right click on the video to enlarge.

These video are top mil picks... - - [18/Aug/2004:01:45:07 -0400] "GET /Fallujah_video_massacre.htm - - [18/Aug/2004:02:39:34 -0400] "GET /apache_original_video.htm - - [18/Aug/2004:02:40:57 -0400] "GET /Fallujah_video_massacre.htm - - [18/Aug/2004:02:42:14 -0400] "GET /pop_up_apache_video.htm - - [19/Aug/2004:05:55:48 -0400] "GET /apache_original_video.htm - - [19/Aug/2004:11:49:00 -0400] "GET /Fallujah_video_massacre.htm - - [19/Aug/2004:12:57:39 -0400] "GET /apache_original_video.htm - - [19/Aug/2004:13:01:42 -0400] "GET /Fallujah_video_massacre.htm

FWIW, EVERY morning like clockwork, Monday-Friday, between 8:30 and 9:30 these guys drop by for peak oil updates... - - [18/Aug/2004:08:41:19 -0400] "GET /by_topic_peak_oil.htm - - [19/Aug/2004:09:54:27 -0400] "GET /by_topic_peak_oil.htm

Today they were late...
I'll have em posted this week.

I have been on a few US forums over the last two months and have been able to hold my own enough that a few people are willing to conced that Bush's War is hurting non-combtants.
This made me sick. They are murderers. I hope they get what they deserve someday. I don't know if they can sleep at night.

How can we call this a justified war. Nothing here is justified. This is murder. All of this must be reported to the international court of justice. This is evidence that we can't let them keep away from the people of the world to see. The Americans must account for their ugly, inhumane, murderous actions.
Chewey, thanks for posting these video links on the other forum.

The "Civilian Massacre" is starting to spread through the web.

Since I received that video I was a bit unsure what to make of the attack - i.e. the rules of engagement, so to speak.

I asked Stan Goff (I am reading his Full Spectrum Disorder right now) for commentary. I have now posted his comments alongside the video clip.

I hope that will clear things up a little bit for that guy on the other forum...

Stan Goff comments: "The “tell” is in the audio. When the pilot asks permission to fire, he reports a large number of people… not armed people. People. And permission is granted instantly. This is an indication that the mission guidance is to shoot anyone who is in the street. This is a clear war crime, and one that begins with the commander’s stated intent in the operations order. The pilot’s exclamation of satisfaction, “Aw dude!” at the end just underlines how this casual sadism comes to dominate the psyches of those who are part of a military occupation force, and how the ground reality become “race war.”"

Stan Goff retired as a Master Sergeant from the US Army in 1996, his last assignment being 3rd Special Forces Group. He entered military service January, 1970, and his first assignment was as an infantryman with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam. His service took him to seven more conflict areas after Vietnam, including Guatemala, Grenada, El Salvador, Peru, Colombia, Somalia, and Haiti. His assignments included 2nd Ranger Battalion, 1st Ranger Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta, 7th Special Forces, the Jungle Operations Training Center, and the US Military Academy at West Point, where he taught military science.

He is the former Organizing Director for Democracy South and is currently a freelance writer, speaker, and consultant. He is on the coordinating committee of Bring Them Home Now, a campaign of Veterans for Peace and Military Families Speak Out, both of which he is a member. He is the author of two books, one about the 1994 US military intervention in Haiti, called “Hideous Dream: A Soldier's Memoir of the US Invasion of Haiti” (Soft Skull Press, 2000), and one about the Bush Doctrine and the military called “Full Spectrum Disorder – The Military in the New American Century” (Soft Skull Press, 2004).
I have uploaded another video clip. This is from last year so many may have already seen it.

U.S. Marines Kill Wounded Iraqi Then Cheer

"These guys are dead now." "It's a good feeling." "That was awesome, let's do it again." (external - login to view)

As well, I was watching a clip where an Iraqi taxi driver stole some wood. The U.S. troops came by and crushed his car with a tank.

I guess this gives new meaning to the strategy, "Win their hearts and minds."
And after seeing all of this, should we blame the Iraqi resistance? Both are doing terrible things, but I guess one is in response to the other.
We are creating a society of desensitized people. Watching news of battles and killings from afar becomes like watching a videogame. We (today's society) have lost "feeling" and "conscience" for our actions. It is not "in our backyard".

When it did come to "our backyard" (Sept 11), we were appalled, called for retribution, and action was taken in a massive way - and not even against the actual people who did it. Here was an excuse for an eventual attack on Iraq. "Shock and Awe" - and approriately named, as many were indeed "shocked" by the action taken. Hitting an ant with a sledgehammer. Killing innocent citizens of a foreign country "to save them from agression and tyranny".

Now "we", as we are part of that culture called North America, are no longer in a war, but another Vietnam "conflict". US soldiers do not know who really is the enemy. They could be children, woman, old or young, no uniforms, no visible organized chain of command.

Those soldiers are desensitized, and have been turned into killers of "perceived" enemies. 10 civilians dead - but we got the 2 terrorists! Justified? - don't think so.

Helicopter/gunship pilots and crewmen do not "person to person" engage in battle. It is played out on a video screen before them. 50 points, 1000 points, I win!

Maybe someday we all will be finally civilized .... until then, we are still the planet of the apes.
Quote: Originally Posted by moghrabi

And after seeing all of this, should we blame the Iraqi resistance? Both are doing terrible things, but I guess one is in response to the other.

No we can not blame them for resisting; we can not condone the Iraqis beheadings either. This is one of those situations were the ends don’t justify the means. The worst part is much of this could be reduced by accountability, the US will not be accountable for their actions, and simply they do not have to follow the Geneva Convention or International Laws. They have applied for exemption from war crimes and the first effort of charges for war crime actions was rejected.
The comments of the de-sensitizing of these soldiers reminded me of an open-letter for the troops Stan Goff wrote in November. I thought it would be appropriate to post an excerpt.

As well, I have an good aquaintance whose brother-in-law is a U.S. forces medic and just came back from Iraq. The killing, maiming and running over of children ("they're all over the place - in the streets) happens frequently. At a certain point it means nothing to the soldiers.

Stan Goff: 'Hold on to your humanity: An open letter to GIs in Iraq'
an excerpt...

And when you put this into perspective, you know that if you were an Iraqi, you probably wouldn't be crazy about American soldiers taking over your towns and cities either. This is the tough reality I faced in Vietnam. I knew while I was there that if I were Vietnamese, I would have been one of the Vietcong.

But there we were, ordered into someone else's country, playing the role of occupier when we didn't know the people, their language, or their culture, with our head full of bull**** our so-called leaders had told us during training and in preparation for deployment.

In our process of fighting to stay alive, and in their process of trying to expel an invader that violated their dignity, destroyed their property, and killed their innocents, we were faced off against each other by people who made these decisions in $5,000 suits, who laughed and slapped each other on the back in Washington DC with their fat ****ing asses stuffed full of cordon blue and caviar.

I changed over there in Vietnam and they were not nice changes either. I started getting pulled into something--something that craved other people's pain. Just to make sure I wasn't regarded as a "****ing missionary" or a possible rat, I learned how to fit myself into that group that was untouchable, people too crazy to **** with, people who desired the rush of omnipotence that comes with setting someone's house on fire just for the pure hell of it, or who could kill anyone, man, woman, or child, with hardly a second thought. People who had the power of life and death--because they could.

It was all an act for me, a cover-up for deeper fears I couldn't name, and the reason I know that is that we had to dehumanize our victims before we did the things we did. We knew deep down that what we were doing was wrong. So they became s or gooks, just like Iraqis are now being transformed into ragheads or hajjis. People had to be reduced to "******s" here before they could be lynched. No difference.

We convinced ourselves we had to kill them to survive, even when that wasn't true, but something inside us told us that so long as they were human beings, with the same intrinsic value we had as human beings, we were not allowed to burn their homes and barns, kill their animals, and sometimes even kill them. So we used these words, these new names, to reduce them, to strip them of their essential humanity, and then we could do things like adjust artillery fire onto the cries of a baby.

So here is my message to you. You will do what you have to do to survive, however you define survival, while we do what we have to do to stop this thing. But don't surrender your humanity.

The big bosses are trying to gain control of the world's energy supplies to twist the arms of future economic competitors. That's what's going on, and you need to understand it, then do what you need to do to hold on to your humanity. The system does that; tells you you are some kind of hero action figures, but uses you as gunmen. They chump you.

Your so-called civilian leadership sees you as an expendable commodity. They don't care about your nightmares, about the DU [radioactive Depleted Uranium ammunition] that you are breathing, about the loneliness, the doubts, the pain, or about how you humanity is stripped away a piece at a time. They will cut your benefits, deny your illnesses, and hide your wounded and dead from the public. They already are [doing this].
On Friday, we taped the local rogers cable 10 current affairs program... I certainly will have more to say about it but right I am in a bit of a situation.

Unfortunately, this lastest civilvan massacre clip has taken the WWW by storm - in mainstream media, alternative media and discussion forums ...including dozens of US military bases around the world - I can't count them there are so many. (external - login to view)

The bottom line? Over $1000 and counting in bandwidth charges over this past weekend - 75 gigs and right now and I am tracking at more than 1 gig per hour.


No, it won't last forever, but right now, say $2 grand before the end of the month?

My friends, please do not drop by until I have sorted this out with by web hosting company.
Rick van Opbergen
The fact that I came to this site was because I was banned from another (conservative) site. One of my (liberal) friends was banned after she allegedly threatened to uncover some dirty secrets of the site's administrators (which wasn't true). When I asked the administrators why she had been banned, I was banned as well. When I contacted her through MSN, I found out that 25 out of a total of approximately 100 -150 really active users (of a total of 21,000 people signed up) had been banned. We had only one thing in common: we were all liberal, and only 1 or 2 had been given an explanation why they had been banned. (...) No further comment. (Oh, wait: I have to say the administrators were conservatives, does that tell you enough?)
Britain's channel 4 is interested in running with the Fallujah clip.

This is not funny. People will search the web to see it.

REPEAT: please do not visit my website. This is NOT funny. I am at 85 gigs - my limit is18.

I just can't take it off... not now.
I have been corresponding all morning with British ITN - this story is going wild behind the scenes in the media...
Can you provide a link to another source?
Chewy here is a link to a globalresearch page... (external - login to view)

Since noon yesterday, I have sent them over 6,000 visits to the video. I simply couldn't afford any more. I have had to pull the Pop Up Apache video as well - people are asking where another copy is and I don't know. It isn't easy to find if at all.

My extra bill will be approximately $1,500.

Newsgateway is a not-for-profit webcentre dedicated to providing you with the news, views and insight that is missing from today’s major print and broadcast media.

Your support demonstrates your commitment to raising awareness to the key issues driving world events and it's effect on yourself and your friends and family. (external - login to view)
Thanks I have a friend in Netherlands who told me he visited your site. He was impressed but ask why you didn't have anything set up on a free servce? He currently makes Internet videos and posts them a number of sites, some about the war other about Bush and NWO.
Interestingly, I received an e-mail about free web storage for items like mpgs. FreeCache (goes down alot he says and I read) and Coral.

I will have a look and see what the story is...

BTW, I don't want to give the impression I just passed on my bandwidth problems to globalresearch. I spoke with them as I did it - they've published a couple articles of mine and were happy to oblige.
British channel 4 went with the story last night. Where is American media in all this? Oh why do I bother to comment about that...

Take them out, dude: pilots toast hit on Iraqi 'civilians'

By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
06 October 2004

The Pentagon said yesterday it was investigating cockpit video footage that shows American pilots attacking and killing a group of apparently unarmed Iraqi civilians.

The 30-second clip shows the pilot targeting the group of people in a street in the city of Fallujah and asking his mission controllers whether he should "take them out". He is told to do so and, shortly afterwards, the footage shows a huge explosion where the people were. A second voice can be heard on the clip saying: "Oh, dude."

The existence of the video, taken last April inside the cockpit of a US F-16 fighter has been known for some time, though last night's broadcast by Channel 4 News is believed to be the first time a mainstream broadcaster has shown the footage.

At no point during the exchange between the pilot and controllers does anyone ask whether the Iraqis are armed or posing a threat. Critics say it proves war crimes are being committed. (external - login to view)

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