The Morality Pill

Twila

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Mar 26, 2003
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This looks amazing. I'm sure there are negative things about this that I haven't yet or wouldn't think of myself. But on the face of it at this point and time, it seems awesome.

Thoughts?

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Writing in the New York Times, Peter Singer and Agata Sagan ask "Are We Ready for a 'Morality Pill'?" I dunno. Why?

The infamous Milgram and Stanford Prison experiments showed that given the right circumstances, most of us act monstrously. Indeed, given pretty mundane circumstances, most of us will act pretty callously, hustling past people in urgent need in simply to avoid the hassle. But not all of us do this. Some folks do the right thing anyway, even when it's not easy. Singer and Sagan speculate that something special must be going on in those peoples' brains. So maybe we can figure out what that is and put it in a pill!

If continuing brain research does in fact show biochemical differences between the brains of those who help others and the brains of those who do not, could this lead to a “morality pill” — a drug that makes us more likely to help?

The answer is: no. And I think the question invites confusion. Morality is not exhausted by helping. Anyway, help do what?

Singer is perhaps the world's most famous utilitarian, so maybe he's got "help people feel more pleasure and less pain" in mind. Since utilitarianism is monomaniacally focused on how people feel, it can be tempting for utilitarians to see sympathy and the drive to ease suffering as the principal moral sentiments. But utilitarianism does not actually prescribe that we should be motivated to minimize suffering and maximize happiness. It tells us to do whatever minimizes suffering and maximizes happiness. It's possible that wanting to help and trying to help doesn't much help in this sense.

Most contemporary moral psychology begins from the assumption that the primary role of a morality is to solve coordination problems--to facilitate mutually beneficial cooperation, to detect and punish free-riders, to promote a climate of trust through costly signals of adherence to group norms, and so on. If utility is maximized by societies capable of making the crucial transition from small-group to large-group cooperation, the most important moral emotions from a utilitarian perspective will be those that embody and reinforce the norms of the extended order of impersonal exchange. But there are many ways one might be disposed to "help" in this context.

The stability of welfare-enhancing group norms often requires that some among us be willing to harm ourselves punishing norm-violators. "Altruistic punishment" is the term of art. Altruistic punishers might be nasty people. Their willingness to "help" may take the form of streaks of dogmatism and vindictiveness. Or, if Deirdre McCloskey is right that the era of modern economic growth was the product of the rise of specific bourgeois virtues, one way to "help" may be simply to internalize certain commercial norms, which may or may not include and inclination to go out of one's way to help those in need.

Of course, it may be very important that some people, animated by sympathy, go out of their way to help those in need, and to agitate for their interests. But it may be just as important that others not worry too much about these things and instead apply themselves wholly to building successful businesses within the rules.

There is no one morality. There are many ways for humans to live with one another, and each way has a characteristic complement of moral sentiments and norms. If, like Singer, we are utilitarians, we need not be too vexed by the problem of identifying the best morality. The best morality--the one that produces the largest sum of happiness--is the morality of liberal market societies. Call this "bourgeois morality." Bourgeois morality not only has ample space for significant variation in moral personality, it probably requires a division of moral labor. We need some bleeding hearts, some altruistic punishers, some status-driven go-getters, and no doubt much more.

If forcing criminals to huff oxytocin makes for kinder, gentler malefactors, then maybe that's not a bad idea. But we shouldn't confuse morality as such with a single kind of other-regarding, sympathetic, solidaristic helpfulness. That's simple and silly. Like the idea of a "morality pill."

Indeed, it's a mistake to think making people more moral has that much to do with neurochemistry, as opposed to rule-following, norm-internalization, and instinct harnessing. There is little hope for making humans less vain, ambitious, and grasping, and it's not at all clear that doing so would really "help." Moralities that manufacture heaps of happiness don't abolish selfishness, chauvinism, or status-seeking. They civilize and channel our baser drives into useful forms of expression. It doesn't matter if the gal who cures cancer is an ******* only in it for the glory. Indeed, we promise splendid everlasting fame to she who discovers the cure precisely to recruit the talents of glory-motivated *******s. A pill that turns *******s into helpful good sams may make a world where there's more willingness to help, but also fewer and shoddier tools for helping.

There ain't no pill for getting the rules right.

The Morality Pill | Big Think
 

Hoof Hearted

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A little less morality ain't all THAT bad sometimes...

I've read that John Lennon and Steve Jobs were bastards to their own family members. Great men have great vices I suppose.

I, on the other hand am brilliant AND caring at the same time. So there is still hope out there for the rest of you! :)
 

Twila

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Mar 26, 2003
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A little less morality ain't all THAT bad sometimes...

I've read that John Lennon and Steve Jobs were bastards to their own family members. Great men have great vices I suppose.

I, on the other hand am brilliant AND caring at the same time. So there is still hope out there for the rest of you! :)

Brilliant people often have...issues with dealing with loved ones. You can't be brilliant at everything all at once.

I'm thinking for certain types of personality disorders this could be wonderful.

I wonder though, if it were offered would someone say no?
 

Hoof Hearted

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Athletes take steroids to achieve a higher level of success and gain those multi-million dollar contracts.

If you were a writer, would you take a pill (if it existed) that could make you a best selling author?

Like performance enhancing drugs in sport, it would be cheating of course...but an interesting question nonetheless.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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Brilliant people often have...issues with dealing with loved ones. You can't be brilliant at everything all at once.

I'm thinking for certain types of personality disorders this could be wonderful.

I wonder though, if it were offered would someone say no?



A pill altering ones behavior or patterns would fundamentally change who you are would it not? You would be taking a pill to become a different person. I would not want that or ever consent to that.
 

Danbones

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I have been diagnosed with Aspergers

When I realized that the doctors didn't know that it was actually "genetic histamine intolerance", and when I started treating the condition with cayenne (substance P triggers mast cell release of massive amounts of histamine, which triggers more substance P, and then more histamine...etc etc, leading to histamine rage), quercetin, and other antihistamines, like stinging nettle, my temper disappeared and the smile has been returned.

Now, I laugh happily to myself when certain posters beak off and grinningly go into
"smile as I kill" mode.
...and I apparently love it.
:)
The thought of hurting a poster who has not been rude to me is very disquieting again.
 

Hoof Hearted

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I have schizophrenia...

I take a pill (20mg of Abilify) which alters my behavioral patterns and changes who I am.

Without this medication, I'm off the rails...shaking my fists at the satellite cameras in the sky and having heated debates with chipmunks.

Without this pill, I would be unable to be this forum's charming, rakishly handsome, gregarious heartthrob who every female poster wants to sleep with! ;)
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
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I have schizophrenia...

I take a pill (20mg of Abilify) which alters my behavioral patterns and changes who I am.

Without this medication, I'm off the rails...shaking my fists at the satellite cameras in the sky and having heated debates with chipmunks.

Without this pill, I would be unable to be this forum's charming, rakishly handsome, gregarious heartthrob who every female poster wants to sleep with! ;)

Are you taking the blue pill or the red pill?
 

Twila

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Mar 26, 2003
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I have OCD and without my drugs, I wouldn't be able to live a productive life at all. It does change my personality because I'm less concerned with the things that concerned me, so I find it helpful to enjoying my life. Before the pills the anxiety from the OCD prevented me from being able to function.


A pill altering ones behavior or patterns would fundamentally change who you are would it not? You would be taking a pill to become a different person. I would not want that or ever consent to that.

Is it a bit of a personality change or a personality enhancement?


From the a criminal perspective I like the idea that maybe a pill could cure someone of being an ******* and committing crimes against people.
 

Hoof Hearted

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It really is a saw-off. I'm taking a pill that curtails my potential brilliance, yet makes me a better Dad for my daughters.

At the end of the day, for my family, I am 'The One'.

[youtube]SdkdQtlF-RU[/youtube]
 

Ludlow

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Jun 7, 2014
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wherever i sit down my ars
I have schizophrenia...

I take a pill (20mg of Abilify) which alters my behavioral patterns and changes who I am.

Without this medication, I'm off the rails...shaking my fists at the satellite cameras in the sky and having heated debates with chipmunks.

Without this pill, I would be unable to be this forum's charming, rakishly handsome, gregarious heartthrob who every female poster wants to sleep with! ;)
Do you get muscle twitches and tremors? That's one of the side effects of that medicine.
 

Danbones

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That's one thing I like about the stuff I am taking
:)
ZERO bad sides

...and with some ginko biloba and Rhodiola Rosea ( an adaptogen), I am a physical rocket.
;)
 

Hoof Hearted

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Jul 23, 2016
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Ludlow,

Lethargy, weight gain, reduced libido...never got twitchy on Abilify yet.

It's a sacrifice...

Fat and sane?

Or/

Thin and mad as a hatter.

What do I want to truly be? My constant dilemma.

When I was 'nuts' and off of my meds, I wrote and recorded this 30 second musical cue...

I'm pitching it to different companies in the hopes that one of them will pick it up and use it in their TV or Radio spots. We'll see...

Playing: Tell me #1.mp3 - picosong
 

Hoof Hearted

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Being crazy has its advantages...

When I was full-blown psychotic, I wrote and recorded this short little lullaby after my daughters were born. I've since written a nice bridge to stretch the song out, and would like to re-record it some day.

I'm guitar and lead vocals. My producer/buddy added the keyboards.

Playing: Go_to_sleep_1_1[1].mp3 - picosong
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
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Being crazy has its advantages...

When I was full-blown psychotic, I wrote and recorded this short little lullaby after my daughters were born. I've since written a nice bridge to stretch the song out, and would like to re-record it some day.

I'm guitar and lead vocals. My producer/buddy added the keyboards.

Playing: Go_to_sleep_1_1[1].mp3 - picosong

Crazy? meh, word doesn't encompass the brilliance that is had by being in a different mind frame than others.

I, personally, prefer the term eccentric.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
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Sometimes the most creativity is stored in ones insanity. If you can't free your mind of the limits of sanity, you can't free your mind into the expanses of creativity. Some of the best genius' were either batsh-it crazy or wasted on mind-altering drugs.