We love our Nazis

Johnnny

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Jun 8, 2007
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Third rock from the Sun

Danbones

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All I.G. Farben facilities were left standing by American bombers on strict order from Washington. To smooth the path to corporate growth, General Patton stepped in and - in violation of the Potsdam Agreement, which specifically called for the dismantling of Farben - reorganized the company and promoted many of its former mid-level executives. For every Nazi convicted at Nuremberg, four were released. The Phoenix Rises: the Bormann Plan

they'll hang the odd sacrifish, but they won't touch the family jewels
 

HarperCons

Council Member
Oct 18, 2015
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All I.G. Farben facilities were left standing by American bombers on strict order from Washington. To smooth the path to corporate growth, General Patton stepped in and - in violation of the Potsdam Agreement, which specifically called for the dismantling of Farben - reorganized the company and promoted many of its former mid-level executives. For every Nazi convicted at Nuremberg, four were released. The Phoenix Rises: the Bormann Plan

they'll hang the odd sacrifish, but they won't touch the family jewels
Right. America would have allied with Nazi Germany if it was profitable.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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At seventeen he was forced into the squad as an interpreter.

So all those kids forced into being child soldiers should be killed too.

At this late in the game how many of the Nazi's left alive were actual volunteer, step up and take me because I believe it even though it's all I've known all my life and I know nothing else people? How many KNEW exactly what they were doing and WHY it was wrong?

He told a lie to get into Canada but considering the association and likely the automatic feelings towards him - clear as day even now - I don't blame him.

I'm glad this went his way. He's 92 freakin' years old. Let the old man die with something like dignity.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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A 92-year-old man who has admitted being a former Nazi death squad member has won a court victory in Canada, fending off the latest of several efforts to revoke his citizenship.


Former Nazi death guard Oberlander in Canada court win - BBC News

Did you even read the article? It appears that he might have been forced to serve as its interpreter under threat of death, and that was as a teenager, also getting food and cleaning boots. Then he was conscripted as a German infantryman as an adult.

The real 'crime' it seems is that he hid that involvement when he's applied for citizenship, thus obtaining his citizenship fraudulently, say Jewish groups.

At seventeen he was forced into the squad as an interpreter.

So all those kids forced into being child soldiers should be killed too.

At this late in the game how many of the Nazi's left alive were actual volunteer, step up and take me because I believe it even though it's all I've known all my life and I know nothing else people? How many KNEW exactly what they were doing and WHY it was wrong?

He told a lie to get into Canada but considering the association and likely the automatic feelings towards him - clear as day even now - I don't blame him.

I'm glad this went his way. He's 92 freakin' years old. Let the old man die with something like dignity.

After the fall of Germany, even many German officers disbelieved that death camps existed. The German army and the Nazi Party were very much two separate entities. The German Army just did the government's bidding like any other army. The Waffen SS (an internal branch of the Nazi party which was not a part of the German army) handled much of the party's dirty work.

With the Nazi prooagabda machine controlling the German media so tightly, it's easy to believe how many officers in the German army really were kept in the dark about many things.

And as for this person, he may have known more than those officers due to the people he was serving, but he might not have had a choice.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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At seventeen he was forced into the squad as an interpreter.

So all those kids forced into being child soldiers should be killed too.
Child soldier's 15 or under. You don't get to re-write international law for your argument.

At this late in the game how many of the Nazi's left alive were actual volunteer, step up and take me because I believe it even though it's all I've known all my life and I know nothing else people? How many KNEW exactly what they were doing and WHY it was wrong?

He told a lie to get into Canada but considering the association and likely the automatic feelings towards him - clear as day even now - I don't blame him.

I'm glad this went his way. He's 92 freakin' years old. Let the old man die with something like dignity.
If they string him up, that'll be more dignity than the Nazis gave their victims.

Did you even read the article? It appears that he might have been forced to serve as its interpreter under threat of death, and that was as a teenager, also getting food and cleaning boots. Then he was conscripted as a German infantryman as an adult.

The real 'crime' it seems is that he hid that involvement when he's applied for citizenship, thus obtaining his citizenship fraudulently, say Jewish groups.



After the fall of Germany, even many German officers disbelieved that death camps existed. The German army and the Nazi Party were very much two separate entities. The German Army just did the government's bidding like any other army. The Waffen SS (an internal branch of the Nazi party which was not a part of the German army) handled much of the party's dirty work.

With the Nazi prooagabda machine controlling the German media so tightly, it's easy to believe how many officers in the German army really were kept in the dark about many things.

And as for this person, he may have known more than those officers due to the people he was serving, but he might not have had a choice.
The Luftwaffe was also very pro-Hitler. The Wehrmacht, being officered by the old Prussian military nobility, didn't like him, and the Kriegsmarine HATED him.
 

HarperCons

Council Member
Oct 18, 2015
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Did you even read the article? It appears that he might have been forced to serve as its interpreter under threat of death, and that was as a teenager, also getting food and cleaning boots. Then he was conscripted as a German infantryman as an adult.

The real 'crime' it seems is that he hid that involvement when he's applied for citizenship, thus obtaining his citizenship fraudulently, say Jewish groups.



After the fall of Germany, even many German officers disbelieved that death camps existed. The German army and the Nazi Party were very much two separate entities. The German Army just did the government's bidding like any other army. The Waffen SS (an internal branch of the Nazi party which was not a part of the German army) handled much of the party's dirty work.

With the Nazi prooagabda machine controlling the German media so tightly, it's easy to believe how many officers in the German army really were kept in the dark about many things.

And as for this person, he may have known more than those officers due to the people he was serving, but he might not have had a choice.
What the hell is with these Nazi-apologists.. I hate liberals.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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Child soldier's 15 or under. You don't get to re-write international law for your argument.

Not trying to re-write international law. I wasn't aware a child soldier was fifteen and under. I thought it was 18.


If they string him up, that'll be more dignity than the Nazis gave their victims.

String him up for something he was forced to do under threat of death? I wouldn't even consider him a Nazi, since he never voluntarily signed on for anything.

Three times this has been tried, three times it's been rejected. The man is ninty-effin-two years old. Let him live out what's left of his life in peace.

What the hell is with these Nazi-apologists.. I hate liberals.

I would say people who are empathetic and realistic to what happens in war and that not all the 'soldiers' really are fighting by choice, especially back then.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Not trying to re-write international law. I wasn't aware a child soldier was fifteen and under. I thought it was 18.
OK, just be a little careful with your terminology. For a minute there, I thought you were trying to stretch a point invalidly.

Heck, many first world countries allow you to join at 17.




String him up for something he was forced to do under threat of death? I wouldn't even consider him a Nazi, since he never voluntarily signed on for anything.
Yes. At law, the defense is called "duress." If somebody kidnaps your family and tells you they'll kill them if you don't rob a bank, and you do and get caught, duress is a defense. But it does not apply to murder. Basically, the law says that you must die before deliberately killing an innocent person.

Three times this has been tried, three times it's been rejected. The man is ninty-effin-two years old. Let him live out what's left of his life in peace.
That, I did not know. Three times? If they ain't got him yet, the general rule is leave him be, absent overwhelming new evidence that could not have been obtained before.

So after all of that, turns out I agree with you. Who'da thunk it?



I would say people who are empathetic and realistic to what happens in war and that not all the 'soldiers' really are fighting by choice, especially back then.
Even the ones fighting by choice end up facing terrible moral choices, Serryah. I've often said I hope for mercy, not justice.
 

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
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OK, just be a little careful with your terminology. For a minute there, I thought you were trying to stretch a point invalidly.

Heck, many first world countries allow you to join at 17.

I see that. Personally I think joining any military shouldn't be allowed until 20, but that's personal view that really doesn't matter.


Yes. At law, the defense is called "duress." If somebody kidnaps your family and tells you they'll kill them if you don't rob a bank, and you do and get caught, duress is a defense. But it does not apply to murder. Basically, the law says that you must die before deliberately killing an innocent person.

Exactly. The thing is, he was an interpreter. He didn't murder anyone apparently and that's also part of his point. His only crime really is lying to get into Canada and as I said, considering the views on anyone who served with the Nazi's - duress or not - I don't blame him. People are quick to label him Nazi when IMO duress does not make him a Nazi.


That, I did not know. Three times? If they ain't got him yet, the general rule is leave him be, absent overwhelming new evidence that could not have been obtained before.

This was his third trial to get him out of Canada according to the article. third since '95. The Government has not proved at any point that he was a willing participant in the squad.

So after all of that, turns out I agree with you. Who'da thunk it?

I won't hold it against you :p


Even the ones fighting by choice end up facing terrible moral choices, Serryah. I've often said I hope for mercy, not justice.

True; some that do choose to fight in a military of any kind will face moral choices. And I agree on the mercy v. justice simply because justice can be subjective.

But a black/white view of war, period, doesn't help anyone either. Defending this man doesn't make anyone a Nazi-apologetic, to me it means that a person is sympathetic, empathetic and is willing to go with the rule of law.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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Oberlander was a contractor in Kitchener back in the day. Many a citizen in Kitchener is living in a very well built house.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Oberlander was a contractor in Kitchener back in the day. Many a citizen in Kitchener is living in a very well built house.

Exactly. Soldiers of fortune and professional hitmen should be exempted from the law. It shows an entrepreneurial spirit. Only their clients should be punished.

Maybe we could model it on the new prostitution law. The worker is just a victim trying to make a living. It's the client who's exploiting the worker's vulnerabilities.

Go go free markets.