New Climate Change

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
Interesting coffee read !!

(Copy/paste)

My fellow Canadians, you are buying into a lie regarding our energy
industry and the global environment. We are a mere 35 million people,
just 0.5% of this planet's 7.3 billion population.

Our country covers roughly 10 million square kilometres of which probably 90% is
realistically uninhabitable (explaining why over 80% of our population
live in urban centres within 200 kms of the U.S. border) We endure
temperature extremes ranging from -40C or colder to 35C or warmer.

Out of necessity we need to heat our homes for 6+ months the year. We face
major transportation challenges simply because of the geography of our
country. Yet, through all this we are responsible for less than 0.5%
of the pollution generated globally.

We ARE NOT the problem! If every one of us here in Canada chose to sacrifice ourselves for the
betterment of mother earth and self terminated, the positive effect on
the global environment would be.....drum roll please......zero!

The global effect would actualy be negative because we are one of the
most ethical, environmentaly responsible producers of energy in the
world! If we were out of the picture the U.S. would be mining our oil
sands before our corpses had even started giving off methane gas.

They would then proceed to build the biggest pipeline imaginable, from Fort
Mac to Texas. Don't believe me? Lets look at some facts. The U.S. has
no problem with pipelines, U.S. pipelines that is. They actually have
over 3.2 'million' kilometres of liquid petroleum and natural gas
pipelines already. There's also the 1300 kilometre, 122cm (48 inch)
line running from Prudhoe Bay to the Valdez Marine Terminal (yes, big
bad oil tankers). You are aware, aren't you, of the Trans Alaskan
pipeline running directly through the pristine heart of that beautiful
state?
As of 2010 16 'BILLION' Barrels of oil had been transported
through this U.S. pipeline and terminal. The U.S. also has no problem
drilling for oil in the Atlantic ocean, the Pacific ocean, the Arctic
ocean or the Gulf of Mexico yet they have the audacity to condemn
Canada for mining our oil sands in northern Alberta and Saskatchewan?


The opposition to our Canadian energy development is a well organized
attempt to keep our Canadian oil land locked so that we are forced to
sell to the U.S. and to the U.S. only and then at a very discounted
price. The U.S. is attempting and succeeding in preventing us from
marketing our own natural resources globally to the highest bidder.
U.S. foundations (HP, Tides, et al) are funding the opposition to our
oil sands and contrary to popular belief it has absolutely nothing to
do with threats to the environment.

If they really were that concerned about our planet why are they not protesting the real polluters, the
real threats to our environment? China, the world's worst polluter
(besides having a tragic human rights record)? No protests. Why isn't
Suzuki over in Bejing chastising Jinping? What about the other major
polluters? Russia? The U.S. themselves? India? I can understand a
Canadian that is benefitting financially, who is receiving grants to
oppose or protest or hamstring our own resource development.

What I can't understand is the rest of my fellow Canadians buying into their
bovine excrement. In the oil sands, our very own Canadian oil sands,
we have the 3rd largest proven crude oil reserve in the world, behind
only Saudia Arabia and Venezuela (again, both with 'stellar' human
rights track records....)



EVERY person in Canada, and EVERY province and territory in Canada has
benefitted tremendously, whether directly, indirectly or both from our
oil sands development. Over the next 25 years the oil sands has the
potential to generate over $1.5 TRILLION in federal and provincial
taxes and royalties.

Of course Quebec will need their share, oh yeah
they don't want a pipeline either.There is the potential for well over 500,000 direct and
indirect jobs. So here's the deal my fellow Canadians. I fear our
Canadian 'goose that lays the golden egg' is suffering the death by a
thousand cuts. Alas, it may already be too late. Maybe it's already on
life support.

If you share the view's of the Gore's, the Suzuki's,
and the Obama's of the world, that our Canadian energy producers and
those that work in this industry are bad and evil and a scourge on the
earth, a blight on Canada's reputation in the global community then
fine, stick your fork into the goose as well but please do not whine
and complain 10 or 15 years down the road when the wait time for your
hip replacement is 3-5 years because our health care system is
underfunded and there's a severe shortage of doctors and nurses in the
system. Meanwhile the Suzukis and their ilk will be flying down to the
Mayo clinic in a big bad fossil fuel burning jet for their medical
needs.


Don't whine and complain when your grandchild's class has a 50:1
student to teacher ratio because our education system is underfunded
and the government coffers are bare. Of course the Suzuki
grandchildren will be in private schools so no problem there. Don't
whine and complain when your city's infrastructure is decaying and
falling apart and there's no money to repair it. Instead of whining
and complaining make sure you look into the mirror and realize you
believed a lie that has cost this incredible country and our future
generations an amazing opportunity to prosper and succeed globally.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Oh Durpy, You be the one living in a lie. We cannot rape and pillage the planet without consequences. We have the technology to move away from fossil fuels to a more sustainable economy, away from the feast or famine economy and yet you and many like you stay stuck in the dark ages of the past. Sad.

Oh Durpy, You be the one living in a lie. We cannot rape and pillage the planet without consequences. We have the technology to move away from fossil fuels to a more sustainable economy, away from the feast or famine economy and yet you and many like you stay stuck in the dark ages of the past. Sad.
and you too Wally.
 

waldo

House Member
Oct 19, 2009
3,042
0
36
Yet, through all this we are responsible for less than 0.5%
of the pollution generated globally.

We ARE NOT the problem! If every one of us here in Canada chose to sacrifice ourselves for the
betterment of mother earth and self terminated, the positive effect on
the global environment would be.....drum roll please......zero!

since you don't link to where you actually found that C&P gem, or offer any personal comment/interpretation, I'll readily accept it as yours.

so... you discount emissions that Canada (and other western industrialized countries) outsource to other countries?

so... you discount emissions that result within countries that Canada exports oil products to?

it's always quite telling that those who wish to perpetuate the fossil-fuel status quo have such a narrow skewed understanding of just what impact Canada's oil exports actually have... particularly as a contributing influence to continued/further reliance on fossil-fuels within those export countries and resulting emissions therein. As you look into your crystal ball gaze, it also begs the question on just when you might be willing to let it go... let "some" of it go in relation to diversification efforts away from fossil-fuels. Thinking persons realize that fossil-fuels will be with us, to ever diminishing levels, for the next 4 or so decades... what would you have Canada do then if you insist upon perpetuating the fossil-fuel status-quo to that eventual end point? Let Canadians eat cake?

 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
26,652
6,989
113
B.C.
Oh Durpy, You be the one living in a lie. We cannot rape and pillage the planet without consequences. We have the technology to move away from fossil fuels to a more sustainable economy, away from the feast or famine economy and yet you and many like you stay stuck in the dark ages of the past. Sad.


and you too Wally.
Come on Cliffy we in Canada have very tough environmental standards .Starting in the 1960's we got serious about pollution and have been steadily improving our environment .The air quality in Vancouver is better now then it was 50 years ago . When I was growing up Vancouver's False creek was sludge , it now is clean and supports fish and sea mammals .It is not all doom and glume and our environmental protections are stronger now then any time in our history .
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
286
83
Canada
We are currently in an inter-glacial phase of an ice age that began about 37 million years ago. For most of the earth's history, it has been warmer and wetter than it is now. The principal engine affecting climate is the sun, not carbon dioxide. Other geological forces (rarely included in the computer models that catastrophists are so fond of quoting) include the changing shape of continents and of the sea floor, tectonic plate movement, the opening and closing of sea ways, changes in the Earth’s orbit, supernova eruptions, comet dust, impacts by comets and asteroids, volcanic activity, bacteria, soil formation, sedimentation, ocean currents and the chemistry of air, just to name a few. You could add in the immense, but unquantified, role of methane-producing insects like termites. Attributing climate change to carbon dioxide alone ignores all these planetary influences.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Oh Durpy, You be the one living in a lie. We cannot rape and pillage the planet without consequences. We have the technology to move away from fossil fuels to a more sustainable economy, away from the feast or famine economy and yet you and many like you stay stuck in the dark ages of the past. Sad.
and you too Wally.

Technologicly no, politically no, economically no. Consequences planetary and consequences human are two different things, the planet could do just fine without humans. Oil rules the human world and will for generations to come. This present age is as dark as many in the past. Oil is a source of light also. Oil is not a fossil fuel. The Saudis have pumped what equals 25 cubic kilometers of dinosaurs already with little sign of exhausting the wells. Oil is our friend. Why is our friend held in bondage by the big houses?
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
Come on Cliffy we in Canada have very tough environmental standards .Starting in the 1960's we got serious about pollution and have been steadily improving our environment .The air quality in Vancouver is better now then it was 50 years ago . When I was growing up Vancouver's False creek was sludge , it now is clean and supports fish and sea mammals .It is not all doom and glume and our environmental protections are stronger now then any time in our history .
We had the same experience here in the bay below the Mill site....Now, as T walk the around the bay in the summer I often see fingerling feeding in the weeds near the shore....
But, don't try and convince 'the sky is falling hand wringers' in this forum...
In typical Liberal know-it-all style.........They know better.............. don't-you-know...


Flossy
............Waldo
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Point taken on fusion and ZPE.

PS - No false dichotomies here... It's all relative to the energy needs and availability of sources, and of course, all relative to Clifford's idyllic beliefs and commentary.... Sorry to burst your bubble on that
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
5,726
3,599
113
Edmonton
Oh Durpy, You be the one living in a lie. We cannot rape and pillage the planet without consequences. We have the technology to move away from fossil fuels to a more sustainable economy, away from the feast or famine economy and yet you and many like you stay stuck in the dark ages of the past. Sad.


and you too Wally.

We're not close as yet but we're getting there. Doesn't mean because we are oil dependent that we shouldn't keep trying to better the current results of unpredictable renewable options.

But, I'm amazed at how naive people are who say that we should scrap all oil and coal and go to more sustainable options. When those options are actually viable and "sustainable" then I'll be the first in line!! Unfortunately, not only are they NOT sustainable, but our bills are going to be extremely high as these companies must be subsidized. Ontario already has one of the highest (if not the highest) electrical charges per household in N. America. At'ta go Liberals!! Nothing like screwing up something that was fine before you took over. Natural gas is a good source for power generation as well as heating. It's clean and efficient but noooooo, lets go "green". Not as efficient or reliable as yet? Don't care - that's what we'll do anyway and we'll make the poor suckers pay and pay and pay......

And Alberta will be well on its way after the NDP has now almost doubled the Carbon Tax. Notely has raised taxes and she isn't even finished yet. Her "good ol' boys" from Toronto and BC who hate Alberta (actually was jealous I'm thinking because they're beyond rational) are making sure they're gonna get us good. I'm hoping once the transfer payments stop and Alberta becomes a "have not" that BC and Ontario will be as generous with their contributions to confederation as Alberta has been over the years. But I'm sure all we'll get is bitching and a move to reduce the amount of transfers albeit Quebec will continue to get its share.

It's already quite expensive to live in Canada but it seems the "elite" don't give a damn. So there you have it. The Suzuki's can fly all over the place, have 8,000 sq. foot homes in various places - don't care - they have the dough to pay (or evade) and know that us poor peons will pay. And, in all likelihood, they'll be the ones who will benefit because they will have their fingers in the pie!

Am I cynical? You bet!

JMHO
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,603
7,090
113
Washington DC
Point taken on fusion and ZPE.

PS - No false dichotomies here... It's all relative to the energy needs and availability of sources, and of course, all relative to Clifford's idyllic beliefs and commentary.... Sorry to burst your bubble on that
I agree. But letting Cliffy force you into a false dichotomy (i.e., your implication that if it's not Utopia, it's worthless) is beneath you.

We get along OK. I just hate it when you depart from rationality and dive into teh stupid. So I call you on it.

I imagine you could do the same to me pretty often. And I'd appreciate it if you did.

I know, slanging the Twue Bewievers is fun, but (my opinion) there's too much of it, at the expense of rational discussion.

Meh, maybe I'm taking the place too seriously.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
146
63
A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
I agree. But letting Cliffy force you into a false dichotomy (i.e., your implication that if it's not Utopia, it's worthless) is beneath you.

We get along OK. I just hate it when you depart from rationality and dive into teh stupid. So I call you on it.

I imagine you could do the same to me pretty often. And I'd appreciate it if you did.

I know, slanging the Twue Bewievers is fun, but (my opinion) there's too much of it, at the expense of rational discussion.

Meh, maybe I'm taking the place too seriously.

Point taken.... Sometimes I get into the mode of employing the same idealism and extreme subjectivity in order to push my point

Childish - yep
Effective - not likely

But it does go the distance in demonstrating that extremes (as far as grey issues are concerned) are without any merit.

... Besides, it takes a helluva lot less effort than actually putting together a cogent argument