Harley Lawrence's murderers sentenced to life in prison

[SLM]

Harley Lawrence's murderers sentenced to life in prison

Daniel Wayne Surette, Kyle David James Fredericks pleaded guilty after dousing homeless man with gas

CBC News Posted: Apr 28, 2015 6:00 AM AT Last Updated: Apr 28, 2015 5:38 PM AT

The two men who admitted to killing homeless man Harley Lawrence by setting him on fire have been sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 18 and 20 years.
Daniel Wayne Surette, 27, and Kyle David James Fredericks, 26, doused Lawrence with $10 worth of gas and set him on fire on Oct. 23, 2013, in a bus shelter in Berwick.
They were sentenced Tuesday in the Supreme Court of Nova Scotia in Kentville.

Justice Gregory Warner accepted the joint recommendation from the lawyers, ruling that Surette would not be eligible for parole for 20 years. Fredericks will be eligible to apply for parole in 18 years.
Surette also addressed the court, saying "I know what we done was severely f--ked up." He added that he hoped people could move on and find closure.

Kyle Fredericks, left, and Daniel Surette were sentenced Tuesday in a Kentville, N.S., court after they pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. (Facebook)


Fredericks did not address the courtroom.
After the sentencing, Lawrence's brother Ron Lawrence said he's not worried about parole eligibility.
"Everyone says they should get more, but it's going to be totally up to them now," Lawrence said. "What they do with their life and it will be their responsibility of how long they actually stay in there."
'It doesn't change nothing to what I feel about them'

Lawrence questions if the pair feel any remorse.
"It doesn't change nothing to what I feel about them."
"Harley had dreams like everyone else. He had hopes and dreams and due to his condition and mental illness, he got deprived of that. But he didn't deserve to go like that."
Crown attorney Jim Fyfe said the contempt Surette and Fredericks had for Lawrence was clear.
"I think what we did today is hopefully send a strong deterrent message that there is a serious, serious consequence for this type of behaviour. And that is reflected in that both these young men got a life sentence today," he said.
Fyfe said there was strong evidence that Surette was more involved in the killing. He said Surette was the one who suggested it and poured the gasoline over Lawrence, and that is why he has to serve two more years before applying for parole.
"When we looked at all the circumstances in the case, including the criminal records of both individuals, Mr. Surette has a criminal record that is significantly more serious and does include some previous convictions for violence," he said.
The pair thought Lawrence may have been a police informant and made the decision together to set him on fire, according to an agreed statement of facts read out in court on Tuesday.
'Let's get the bum'

Surette and Fredericks each pleaded guilty to second-degree murder when they made a brief court appearance two months ago.
The agreed statement of facts described how the two men went to the gas station the night of Lawrence's death.
"It was while they were in the Foodland parking lot (right where the bus shelter was) while on their way to the Needs store that Surette said something to the effect of, 'Let's get the bum' or "Let's burn the bum,'" said the statement.
"Fredericks was not certain what was said exactly, but he said that they both understood that they were going to set the homeless man on fire."
Second-degree murder carries an automatic life sentence.
The hearing also gave Lawrence's family and friends a chance to describe what his death has meant to them in victim impact statements.
'I did something bad to the homeless guy'

During their preliminary inquiry in February, the court heard testimony from Becky Surette, Daniel Surette's mother. She said everyone in Berwick knew Lawrence, but there was a rumour he was an undercover police officer.
Surette testified her son arrived home the night Lawrence was killed and told her, "Mom, I did something bad to the homeless guy."
Police used security video from various local businesses to figure out the movements of Surette and Fredericks leading up to the killing.
It took six months for police to declare Lawrence's death a homicide, and Surette and Fredericks were not charged until April 2014.


Harley Lawrence's murderers sentenced to life in prison - Nova Scotia - CBC News

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

So, each of these clowns is going to be kept as a ward of the Crown, at a cost of roughly $CN 2 million, at the end of which process they will be dumped back on the streets, probably more vicious and certainly of no more worth.

Now THERE's a wise investment!

Rope costs about $0.25 a foot. Do the math.

 

[SLM]

So, each of these clowns is going to be kept as a ward of the Crown, at a cost of roughly $CN 2 million, at the end of which process they will be dumped back on the streets, probably more vicious and certainly of no more worth.

Now THERE's a wise investment!

Rope costs about $0.25 a foot. Do the math.

What is the cost of an execution in the US? The real cost. No, not the cost of rope because we both know that ain't gonna happen just like that. Are there any real statistics released on it? All I'm finding in a Google search is news articles, biased to either side.

 

[darkbeaver]

So, each of these clowns is going to be kept as a ward of the Crown, at a cost of roughly $CN 2 million, at the end of which process they will be dumped back on the streets, probably more vicious and certainly of no more worth.

Now THERE's a wise investment!

Rope costs about $0.25 a foot. Do the math.

I was thinking a hundred bucks of fire wood and the town square where they were sentenced. I know there would be no problem raising the cash especially if tickets were sold for the privilage of striking the match. These two are grade A trash.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What is the cost of an execution in the US? The real cost. No, not the cost of rope because we both know that ain't gonna happen just like that. Are there any real statistics released on it? All I'm finding in a Google search is news articles, biased to either side.

I've seen a figure of $1.2 million. I hope you understand it doesn't have to be that high.

 

[The Old Medic]

I have been a supporter of the Death Penalty for most of my life (I am 71 now). But, I have changed my mind about the Death Penalty, and I can no longer support it for anything short of Treason.

The reason why I changed my mind has nothing to do with the Death Penalty per se. I firmly believe that some crimes should warrant the ultimate penalty.

The reason why I have changed my mind is because of the numbers of people that have been convicted, sentenced to death, and years later were found to be completely innocent of the crime. Even one person being wrongly convicted is one too many!

BUT, I could not support giving most murderers the opportunity to get paroled in 18-20 years either. That short a sentence devalues the life that was taken. I support Life without the possibility of parole in cases like the one this thread started with.

Someone asked what the TRUE cost of executing someone is? It costs far more to execute a person, than it does to keep them in prison for life. There are endless appeals, and the government pays the costs of both sides in the vast majority of them.

Removing the Death Penalty will reduce the costs of the prison systems markedly.

 

[JLM]

I've seen a figure of $1.2 million. I hope you understand it doesn't have to be that high.

I think it all boils down to the number and validity of criteria set. D.N.A. is probably up to 99% reliable, add to that other physical evidence, eye witnesses, photographs, past criminal history, motive and opportunity- if all those things confirm it, then I would say the chances of a miscarriage of justice is pretty infinitesimal. On the other hand if two of the criteria don't confirm, then it should be life in a bunker, with NO amenities.

So, each of these clowns is going to be kept as a ward of the Crown, at a cost of roughly $CN 2 million, at the end of which process they will be dumped back on the streets, probably more vicious and certainly of no more worth.

Now THERE's a wise investment!

Rope costs about $0.25 a foot. Do the math.

My sentiments exactly- I can only recall one case that may be worse. Three young guys in Texas years ago tied up a black man with a rope tied to their pickup and dragged him around town until his head came off. I know two of them were sentenced to death, but I never did find out whether they actually got it. Why would anyone favour keeping animals like this locked up probably over time amassing a grocery bill of $100 thousand dollars?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I have been a supporter of the Death Penalty for most of my life (I am 71 now). But, I have changed my mind about the Death Penalty, and I can no longer support it for anything short of Treason.

For values of treason = something you don't like, right?

The reason why I changed my mind has nothing to do with the Death Penalty per se. I firmly believe that some crimes should warrant the ultimate penalty.

The reason why I have changed my mind is because of the numbers of people that have been convicted, sentenced to death, and years later were found to be completely innocent of the crime. Even one person being wrongly convicted is one too many!

Of course. If something doesn't work, don't fix it, scrap it!

BUT, I could not support giving most murderers the opportunity to get paroled in 18-20 years either. That short a sentence devalues the life that was taken. I support Life without the possibility of parole in cases like the one this thread started with.

Someone asked what the TRUE cost of executing someone is? It costs far more to execute a person, than it does to keep them in prison for life. There are endless appeals, and the government pays the costs of both sides in the vast majority of them.

Removing the Death Penalty will reduce the costs of the prison systems markedly.

Actually, you don't know the costs, and removing capital punishment will do almost nothing, as is evidenced by the fact that states with no death penalty do not have significantly different prison costs than states with the death penalty.

My sentiments exactly- I can only recall one case that may be worse. Three young guys in Texas years ago tied up a black man with a rope tied to their pickup and dragged him around town until his head came off. I know two of them were sentenced to death, but I never did find out whether they actually got it. Why would anyone favour keeping animals like this locked up probably over time amassing a grocery bill of $100 thousand dollars?

Berry's eligible for parole in 2038, King's still on death row, and Brewer was executed in 2011. It's a good start.

 

[SLM]

I've seen a figure of $1.2 million. I hope you understand it doesn't have to be that high.

But it's not chump change either was my point. Look, I get it, you and many others are for the death penalty, I and many others are against it. And we all have our reasons. But the easiest thing in the world to do is go online and just say "get a rope, string him up....the cost is too high to keep him in jail". Again the first part isn't going to happen, places in the world where that does happen tend to also do away with things like trials or they'll string someone up for a variety of reasons, most of which aren't deserving of death. The second part may be a valid argument, but then you have to use a realistic measure, not the cost of a rope.

Do I want these guys to see parole in 18 or 20 years? No, I don't think I would, and they may not be. Possibility always exists they could be declared dangerous offenders, in which case life means life. But the possibility exists that they won't as well. So that's a valid argument. But comparing the cost of a rope to cost of incarceration is like comparing apples to shoes.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

But it's not chump change either was my point. Look, I get it, you and many others are for the death penalty, I and many others are against it. And we all have our reasons. But the easiest thing in the world to do is go online and just say "get a rope, string him up....the cost is too high to keep him in jail". Again the first part isn't going to happen, places in the world where that does happen tend to also do away with things like trials or they'll string someone up for a variety of reasons, most of which aren't deserving of death. The second part may be a valid argument, but then you have to use a realistic measure, not the cost of a rope.

No, the easiest thing in the world is to make general statements about "places in the world where that does happen tend to also do away with things like trials." This allows you to dismiss the enormous number of safeguards in the systems in states in the U.S., plus the Federal system, and even gives you the escape hatch of saying "I said 'tend to'" to cover your careful almost-defamation. All this despite the fact that, in the case at hand, both defendants freely confessed, so a trial wasn't even necessary. Still, hey, it let you get your shot in at the States, so it's all good, eh?

It also allows you to shriek about the high cost of death penalty cases, and then when it's pointed out that the death penalty, even in its current inefficient form, is cheaper than life in prison, or even 20 years, say "Oh, money doesn't matter."

Do I want these guys to see parole in 18 or 20 years? No, I don't think I would, and they may not be. Possibility always exists they could be declared dangerous offenders, in which case life means life. But the possibility exists that they won't as well. So that's a valid argument. But comparing the cost of a rope to cost of incarceration is like comparing apples to shoes.

First, it was a figure of speech more than an argument. Nonetheless, when you chose to run with it, I paid you the respect of answering your question neutrally and factually. The real argument, which you somehow never quite got to, is that these two are vicious and worthless.

I hold that nobody needs to earn a place in society. You get that free for nothing by being born human. But I also hold you can forfeit that place by your own voluntary actions.

 

[SLM]

No, the easiest thing in the world is to make general statements about "places in the world where that does happen tend to also do away with things like trials." This allows you to dismiss the enormous number of safeguards in the systems in states in the U.S., plus the Federal system, and even gives you the escape hatch of saying "I said 'tend to'" to cover your careful almost-defamation. All this despite the fact that, in the case at hand, both defendants freely confessed, so a trial wasn't even necessary. Still, hey, it let you get your shot in at the States, so it's all good, eh?

It also allows you to shriek about the high cost of death penalty cases, and then when it's pointed out that the death penalty, even in its current inefficient form, is cheaper than life in prison, or even 20 years, say "Oh, money doesn't matter."


First, it was a figure of speech more than an argument. Nonetheless, when you chose to run with it, I paid you the respect of answering your question neutrally and factually. The real argument, which you somehow never quite got to, is that these two are vicious and worthless.

I hold that nobody needs to earn a place in society. You get that free for nothing by being born human. But I also hold you can forfeit that place by your own voluntary actions.

Okay, wow. Somebody is overly sensitive this morning. I said none of the things you're attributing to me, as far as I'm concerned, didn't even imply them. Seems like you want to go on the defensive.

You know what, forget the whole thing. I was just actually trying to engage in a discussion with you. My mistake, won't happen again.