Should the Gov't be sticking its nose into hiring foreign workers?


JLM
#1
Shouldn't it be up to the guy who is running the outfit to hire the guy that can make the most money for the company?
 
WLDB
#2
If it were Canadians, sure. People without citizenship is very different. Thats the way it is in most countries. A person in the UK, US etc can't just hire you legally without their government knowing about it and approving it. Its the same here.
 
JLM
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

If it were Canadians, sure. People without citizenship is very different. Thats the way it is in most countries. A person in the UK, US etc can't just hire you legally without their government knowing about it and approving it. Its the same here.


Sometimes the Gov't wants to know too much. -
 
Sal
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Shouldn't it be up to the guy who is running the outfit to hire the guy that can make the most money for the company?

sure if that guy is legal, and everything is above board...otherwise...absolutely not....
 
JLM
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

sure if that guy is legal, and everything is above board...otherwise...absolutely not....


Legal is not always ethical. Isn't up to the people issuing business licenses to determine that things are "above board"? (Not that I'm exactly in favour of business licenses either) Too much "Big brother" -
 
Sal
+3
#6  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Legal is not always ethical. Isn't up to the people issuing business licenses to determine that things are "above board"? (Not that I'm exactly in favour of business licenses either) Too much "Big brother" -

I don't understand what you are saying...sorry, please explain. I don''t really understand what you are asking.

From my perspective, if someone is in the country legally with all of the permits then they can be hired. Importing people to bring down company wage costs is not ethical and akin to slavery.

Thus no, it is not up to business to hire whomever they please. We are the government, we set the standards. We have to protect Canadians and their ability to support themselves.
 
gerryh
#7
TORONTO -- Elderly widow Anne Opfermann agreed to get her chimney fixed after the nice man came to her door and spoke in her native German.Within weeks, though, the frail, 92-year-old legally blind senior was writing cheque after cheque for more repairs that she was told were critical -- 30 cheques in all over a six-week period. Her life savings of $160,000 were wiped out and there was just $100 left in her bank account before the police stepped in and sent the construction workers packing.
"They were trying to talk her into mortgaging her home so she could pay for more 'necessary' repairs," says her friend, Willi Strohl, 76.
"I kept saying, 'Don't betray me, please,'" adds Opfermann, as we sit on the porch of her beautiful Arts and Crafts-style west-end home that she and her late husband purchased in 1969.
But betray her they did, she says.
A Superior Court judge this week called the despicable actions of Scotty Eisemann and Anthony Taylor of Taylor Made Construction "unconscionable and exploitative" in their taking advantage of an old woman who made the mistake of trusting them. In Opfermann's civil action against the Richmond Hill, Ont., men, Justice Graeme Mew awarded her $132,206 in compensatory damages and $25,000 in aggravated damages.


Sun News : Woman, 94, wins lawsuit against shady contractor (external - login to view)


I bet JLM figures these guys should never have been taken to court and definitely not hit with the compensation award they were hit with. After all, the old Lady signed off on all the work orders. Right? Just another example of "Big Brother" sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. Buyer beware, after all.
 
JLM
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

I don't understand what you are saying...sorry, please explain. I don''t really understand what you are asking.

From my perspective, if someone is in the country legally with all of the permits then they can be hired. Importing people to bring down company wage costs is not ethical and akin to slavery.

Thus no, it is not up to business to hire whomever they please. We are the government, we set the standards. We have to protect Canadians and their ability to support themselves.


From what I can gather from your final sentences we have opposing philosophies on the matter. This is supposedly a free country and if I'm going to risk money to run a company and benefit the country by hiring people, then I don't really give a sh*t what any bureaucrat thinks, he's not risking anything.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Sun News : Woman, 94, wins lawsuit against shady contractor (external - login to view)


I bet JLM figures these guys should never have been taken to court and definitely not hit with the compensation award they were hit with. After all, the old Lady signed off on all the work orders. Right? Just another example of "Big Brother" sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. Buyer beware, after all.


That has F.A. to do with what I was talking about!
 
gerryh
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

From what I can gather from your final sentences we have opposing philosophies on the matter. This is supposedly a free country and if I'm going to risk money to run a company and benefit the country by hiring people, then I don't really give a sh*t what any bureaucrat thinks, he's not risking anything.


and how would you be "benefiting" the country by hiring foreign workers at a discount? The only "benefit" I can see would be in your own pocket.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

That has F.A. to do with what I was talking about!


Of course it doesn't.
 
Sal
+1
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

From what I can gather from your final sentences we have opposing philosophies on the matter.

apparently because from my perspective if a business owner is not willing to abide by the law, I as a consumer am not about to support his business. I as a voter want this type of unethical business type shut down.
Quote:

This is supposedly a free country

a free country does not give you license to abuse the system/people and not have any consequence
Quote:

and if I'm going to risk money to run a company and benefit the country by hiring people, then I don't really give a sh*t what any bureaucrat thinks, he's not risking anything.

then you are going to prison. You are not a benefit to the country or anyone else other than yourself unless you follow the laws of the land. Risking your money does not equal entitlement to criminal offenses against the human rights code or against your fellow Canadians.

this is not about what some bureaucrat thinks, this is about legality

a free country does not equal a free for all

there are rules, abide by the rules or pay the consequences

you are your choices
 
Goober
+3
#11
JLM
Let them all come, companies can set up mass lodging in used sea cans like I used to reside in.
Provide meals, housing 2 per 8 x 20 ft sea can
Pay min wage. Deduct airfare, food, lodging transportation costs.
Of course some would come with undetermined illness, all covered by us.

I am sure you would change your mind after the first half million were hired out of country.
If not after the next half million.

This program has not received a decent audit by the Govt.
It was ripe for abuse and companies abused it.
Why are so many permits approved from southern Ontario that has a high rate of unemployment.
If they cannot hire there, raise the wages, raise the price of what they are selling.
This has been a boondoggle with no oversight.
Last edited by Goober; Jun 20th, 2014 at 05:27 PM..
 
JLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and how would you be "benefiting" the country by hiring foreign workers at a discount? The only "benefit" I can see would be in your own pocket.




Where did I say I was going to hire them at a discount?

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

JLM
Let them all come, companies can set up mass lodging in used sea cans like I used to reside in.
Provide meals, housing 2 per 8 x 20 ft sea can
Pay min wage. Deduct airfare, food, lodging transportation costs.
Of course some would come with undetermined illness, all covered by us.

I am sure you would change your mind after the first half million were hired out of country.
If not after the next half million.

This program has not received a decent audit by the Govt.
It was ripe for abuse and companies abused it.
Why are so many permits approved from southern Ontario that has a high rate of unemployment.
If they cannot hire there, raise the wages, raise the price of what they are selling.
This has been a boondoggle with no oversight.


And how long do you think an unethical employer is going to retain good help?
 
gerryh
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Where did I say I was going to hire them at a discount?


Wow, just wow. Another example of JLM commenting on a subject without knowing anything about that subject.

Go educate yourself, dumba$$.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#14
The worker program was to supplement a worker shortage not to replace workers
who are Canadians.
This was to further the race to the bottom economically and in this case I agree with
government
 
JLM
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

apparently because from my perspective if a business owner is not willing to abide by the law, I as a consumer am not about to support his business. I as a voter want this type of unethical business type shut down.
a free country does not give you license to abuse the system/people and not have any consequence
then you are going to prison. You are not a benefit to the country or anyone else other than yourself unless you follow the laws of the land. Risking your money does not equal entitlement to criminal offenses against the human rights code or against your fellow Canadians.

this is not about what some bureaucrat thinks, this is about legality

a free country does not equal a free for all

there are rules, abide by the rules or pay the consequences

you are your choices


Where did I say I was going to operate unethically or against the law?
 
Sal
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

And how long do you think an unethical employer is going to retain good help?

if it's illegal he will retain it precisely until caught

illegal help are the best you can get in a bad environment where that environment beats anything they have previously known...fear is a very high but unethical motivator
 
Twila
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The worker program was to supplement a worker shortage not to replace workers
who are Canadians.
This was to further the race to the bottom economically and in this case I agree with
government

On the radio this morning they also mentioned it's original intent was to help with a shortage of highly skilled labour, not the low skilled labour it's been used for.
 
Sal
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Where did I say I was going to operate unethically or against the law?

you didn't you kept it purposely vague for your benefit... I simply defined the terms of why someone would operate in such a shady way and the deciding factor for government involvement...you want to keep the perimeters open and argue from any angle you choose...

you can't do that...

be specific...I asked you to...you did not, therefore I can impose any variables into the equation and it is valid

define your perimeters

Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

On the radio this morning they also mentioned it's original intent was to help with a shortage of highly skilled labour, not the low skilled labour it's been used for.

exactly right and exactly why the OP was kept vague... with no boundaries there are no illegal acts.
 
WLDB
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Sometimes the Gov't wants to know too much. -

I don't think knowing this is too much. If anyone can come here at any time and just get a job wherever then what is the point in having citizenship at all?

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

if I'm going to risk money to run a company and benefit the country by hiring people, then I don't really give a sh*t what any bureaucrat thinks, he's not risking anything.

If you're only hiring TFWs you aren't helping the country at all.
 
Goober
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Where did I say I was going to hire them at a discount?




And how long do you think an unethical employer is going to retain good help?

Min wage minus deductions, these people have and are dependent upon that job.
If you asked for a million, you could get them.
Ethical, really, bottom line is the dollar for these unskilled workers.
 
JLM
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Wow, just wow. Another example of JLM commenting on a subject without knowing anything about that subject.

Go educate yourself, dumba$$.


I think you're the guy who needs educating, Einstein! - The last thing we need is guys like Jason Kenney sticking his nose in other people's business!

Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

define your perimeters


exactly right and exactly why the OP was kept vague... with no boundaries there are no illegal acts.


The O.P. wasn't kept intentionally vague. If the Gov't want's to impose laws and enforce them that's their business, it's what they are there for. If I hire someone and pay them a decent wage with decent working conditions & not breaking any laws, the Gov't has no f**king business sticking their nose into who I can hire.

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

I don't think knowing this is too much. If anyone can come here at any time and just get a job wherever then what is the point in having citizenship at all?



If you're only hiring TFWs you aren't helping the country at all.


Where did I suggest I'd only be hiring T.F.W.s? As a matter of fact I don't recall mentioning T.F.W.s specifically, my bitch is with some bureaucrat telling me who I can or can't hire.
 
petros
#22
Quote:

If I hire someone and pay them a decent wage with decent working conditions & not breaking any laws, the Gov't has no f**king business sticking their nose into who I can hire

Apparently they can and do. It's normal for everyone who works in Canada.
 
JLM
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Apparently they can and do. It's normal for everyone who works in Canada.


You got that right!
 
petros
#24
So what is the big deal?
 
JLM
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

So what is the big deal?


Didn't realize there was one. - I asked a couple of questions, looking for people's opinions. If someone shows up at my door looking for a job, I would take for granted he's there legally. If he has the skills and work ethic I'm looking for I should be able to hire him. If it later becomes apparent he snuck across the border after dark, then that is a totally different matter. There's powers that can deal with that.
 
petros
#26
That is why you find out who you are hiring before you hire them or let them into your country to work on permits.
 
gerryh
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Didn't realize there was one. - I asked a couple of questions, looking for people's opinions. If someone shows up at my door looking for a job, I would take for granted he's there legally. If he has the skills and work ethic I'm looking for I should be able to hire him. If it later becomes apparent he snuck across the border after dark, then that is a totally different matter. There's powers that can deal with that.


Do you know what is required, to work in Canada?
 
JLM
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Do you know what is required, to work in Canada?


Ready, willing and able worked for me for almost 40 years! -
 
gerryh
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Ready, willing and able worked for me for almost 40 years! -


Wrong
 
Sal
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Didn't realize there was one. - I asked a couple of questions, looking for people's opinions. If someone shows up at my door looking for a job, I would take for granted he's there legally. If he has the skills and work ethic I'm looking for I should be able to hire him. If it later becomes apparent he snuck across the border after dark, then that is a totally different matter. There's powers that can deal with that.

if you want to hire someone to cut your grass or clean your garage out that is one thing, you are not a company...if you are a company there are different requirements as there should be

so thus far most people (in this thread at least) do think the government should stick their beak in because otherwise companies run rampant in their hiring practices...

hiring has become very complex...that's why most companies have huge HR offices

if companies had been allowed to hire any way they pleased during your 40 years perhaps you would not have been working either
 
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