Teachers to be bribed with signing bonus.


JLM
#1
B.C. teachers to be offered 6-year term on new contract - British Columbia - CBC News

This is the second time at least this sh*t has happened with the B.C. Gov't, the first time was several years ago under Gordon Campbell, with much of the public sector. Shouldn't the taxpayer have a say before having to pay a ransom? This sh*t was never mentioned before the last election!
 
gerryh
+1
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

B.C. teachers to be offered 6-year term on new contract - British Columbia - CBC News

This is the second time at least this sh*t has happened with the B.C. Gov't, the first time was several years ago under Gordon Campbell, with much of the public sector. Shouldn't the taxpayer have a say before having to pay a ransom? This sh*t was never mentioned before the last election!


This is why

"Students and parents donít need to begin yet another school year in September with the threat of a full strike and major disruption hanging over their heads. Our children deserve stability," he said.


I know you have no children in school any more, so it makes it very obvious you don't give a rats a$$, but those that do have kids in school know the importance of stability for their children.
 
JLM
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

This is why

"Students and parents donít need to begin yet another school year in September with the threat of a full strike and major disruption hanging over their heads. Our children deserve stability," he said.


I know you have no children in school any more, so it makes it very obvious you don't give a rats a$$, but those that do have kids in school know the importance of stability for their children.

No but I still have one grand daughter who lives with us who will be starting grade nine. That isn't a point, the principle far exceeds any inconvenience. Demanding ransoms is criminal, so should be paying them!
 
gerryh
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

No but I still have one grand daughter who lives with us who will be starting grade nine. That isn't a point, the principle far exceeds any inconvenience. Demanding ransoms is criminal, so should be paying them!


What ransom is being demanded? The article only states what the government is offering in hopes of heading off job action in the new school year. There is no mention at all as to what the teachers are asking. So where are you getting this "ransom" from?
 
Goober
+2
#5
Companies/Govt do offer these for long term contracts. It assures stability.
A common practice.
 
JLM
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

What ransom is being demanded? The article only states what the government is offering in hopes of heading off job action in the new school year. There is no mention at all as to what the teachers are asking. So where are you getting this "ransom" from?

There's two things wrong with it, one is it's bribery and two is it's someone else's money.............not rocket science!
 
Goober
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There's two things wrong with it, one is it's bribery and two is it's someone else's money.............not rocket science!

If it was a large corporation would your opinion be the same?
 
gerryh
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There's two things wrong with it, one is it's bribery and two is it's someone else's money.............not rocket science!

So, how exactly do you expect the Government of BC to handle wage negotiations?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

B.C. teachers to be offered 6-year term on new contract - British Columbia - CBC News

This is the second time at least this sh*t has happened with the B.C. Gov't, the first time was several years ago under Gordon Campbell, with much of the public sector. Shouldn't the taxpayer have a say before having to pay a ransom? This sh*t was never mentioned before the last election!

The taxpayers had a say, when they elected the government.

Does the Canadian military pay enlistment/re-enlistment bonuses to soldiers in high-skill jobs? The U.S. forces do. It's generally not considered a "bribe."

Economically speaking, the government wants certainty (a contract in place before the school year starts). Well, certainty has value, just as if you are a manufacturing company and pay a premium for certainty in the supplies you buy (a "needs" contract). So the government is paying for certainty.

The fact that it's "your" money (it isn't, it's BC's money) doesn't change the value of the certainty.
 
PoliticalNick
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There's two things wrong with it, one is it's bribery and two is it's someone else's money.............not rocket science!

It's called collective bargaining! They will negotiate what is hopefully a fair contract. If in the end the teachers perform robbery and get a gold plated agreement then you can b*tch. If it is in line with other jurisdictions and professionals then there is nothing to complain about. You don't even know what the govt is offering other than 6 years and a signing bonus. Do you really want underpaid, spineless and resentful people teaching the next generation?

If I remember correctly Gordon Campbell legislated away their right to a full strike a few years back. Only thing he did good was the essential services legislation.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

It's called collective bargaining! They will negotiate what is hopefully a fair contract. If in the end the teachers perform robbery and get a gold plated agreement then you can b*tch. If it is in line with other jurisdictions and professionals then there is nothing to complain about. You don't even know what the govt is offering other than 6 years and a signing bonus. Do you really want underpaid, spineless and resentful people teaching the next generation?

If I remember correctly Gordon Campbell legislated away their right to a full strike a few years back. Only thing he did good was the essential services legislation.

I don't know about the Great White North, but down here in the Not-So-Great Muddy Grey-Brown South, the impetus for teachers' unions was the fact that the school boards would regularly screw teachers, frequently not even paying them the agreed wage.

Teachers give a service for money. They are entitled to be paid whatever they can get, just like everybody else. They are entitled, as the law currently stands, to unite and bargain collectively for whatever they can get.

I'm all in favour of the government bargaining hard. But really, the government here is in the exact same position as a corporation. They have a product to deliver, customers waiting, and they need their labour force. And corporations also spend "other people's money" (the shareholders). If you don't like the deal, do what shareholders do. Vote out the board of directors and the officers.
 
JLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

The taxpayers had a say, when they elected the government.

We voted based on their promises and stated platform.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

If it was a large corporation would your opinion be the same?

Probably, BUT there's a big difference, I don't have to patronize and support a large corporation.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

It's called collective bargaining! They will negotiate what is hopefully a fair contract. If in the end the teachers perform robbery and get a gold plated agreement then you can b*tch. If it is in line with other jurisdictions and professionals then there is nothing to complain about. You don't even know what the govt is offering other than 6 years and a signing bonus. Do you really want underpaid, spineless and resentful people teaching the next generation?

If I remember correctly Gordon Campbell legislated away their right to a full strike a few years back. Only thing he did good was the essential services legislation.

Education to my mind is an essential service and there is no way children's education should be jeopardized by strikes. Teaching is a calling, they know that up front when they embark on the career.
 
gerryh
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

So, how exactly do you expect the Government of BC to handle wage negotiations?


bump
 
JLM
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

So, how exactly do you expect the Government of BC to handle wage negotiations?

I don't really give a rat's a$$,it's about #422 on my list of pressing concerns. I know one teacher in town here who is off to Mexico/Hawaii at least once a year on school breaks, so I don't think they are in danger of starvation (or anything close to it)-
 
Spade
+3
#15  Top Rated Post
Rather than focusing on teachers' salaries, consider the per-pupil cost of public K-12 education in British Columbia. The per-pupil cost includes physical, instructional, and human resources. The per-pupil cost is $11 832 in 2014. Among provincial jurisdictions, this is the second lowest in Canada, Only PEI spends less; British Columbia spends $1000 less than the Canadian average.
 
JLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Rather than focusing on teachers' salaries, consider the per-pupil cost of public K-12 education in British Columbia. The per-pupil cost includes physical, instructional, and human resources. The per-pupil cost is $11 832 in 2014. Among provincial jurisdictions, this is the second lowest in Canada, Only PEI spends less; British Columbia spends $1000 less than the Canadian average.

Now there's an angle worth looking into! -
 
gerryh
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I don't really give a rat's a$$,it's about #422 on my list of pressing concerns. I know one teacher in town here who is off to Mexico/Hawaii at least once a year on school breaks, so I don't think they are in danger of starvation (or anything close to it)-


So, this thread was just a troll thread then.
 
JLM
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

So, this thread was just a troll thread then.

No, it came under the heading of "news"!
 
gerryh
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

B.C. teachers to be offered 6-year term on new contract - British Columbia - CBC News

This is the second time at least this sh*t has happened with the B.C. Gov't, the first time was several years ago under Gordon Campbell, with much of the public sector. Shouldn't the taxpayer have a say before having to pay a ransom? This sh*t was never mentioned before the last election!

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I don't really give a rat's a$$,it's about #422 on my list of pressing concerns. I know one teacher in town here who is off to Mexico/Hawaii at least once a year on school breaks, so I don't think they are in danger of starvation (or anything close to it)-


See, these two posts don't jive with each other. If you don't give a rats a$$ (which is what I said already and you denied) then why the tone of the OP?

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Rather than focusing on teachers' salaries, consider the per-pupil cost of public K-12 education in British Columbia. The per-pupil cost includes physical, instructional, and human resources. The per-pupil cost is $11 832 in 2014. Among provincial jurisdictions, this is the second lowest in Canada, Only PEI spends less; British Columbia spends $1000 less than the Canadian average.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Now there's an angle worth looking into! -


In other words, the teachers of BC are underpaid. The majority of provinces, save PEI, pay their teachers more.
 
JLM
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

See, these two posts don't jive with each other. If you don't give a rats a$$ (which is what I said already and you denied) then why the tone of the OP?





Sorry, I meant to respond to post #8. The wages per se weren't my main concern. When people are offered bribes at other people's expense I think it is only decent that the people doing the paying be consulted first. I wasn't. There is also a second principle, should people accept a wage offer because they are being bribed or should they accept a wage offer because it is commensurate with the work they are doing?
 
gerryh
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Sorry, I meant to respond to post #8. The wages per se weren't my main concern. When people are offered bribes at other people's expense I think it is only decent that the people doing the paying be consulted first. I wasn't. There is also a second principle, should people accept a wage offer because they are being bribed or should they accept a wage offer because it is commensurate with the work they are doing?


Signing bonuses are very common.
 
JLM
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Signing bonuses are very common.

So is murder, mayhem and skulduggery.............don't make 'em right.
 
gerryh
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

So is murder, mayhem and skulduggery.............don't make 'em right.


So, rather than paying a signing bonus to get a 6 yr deal signed before the next school year. You would rather hold off, possible disruption in the new school year and a possible agreement over just a few years.

Less stability with the very real potential of higher costs in the long run.

That's what you would prefer? Just so you don't feel like you are "bribing" someone?
 
JLM
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

So, rather than paying a signing bonus to get a 6 yr deal signed before the next school year. You would rather hold off, possible disruption in the new school year and a possible agreement over just a few years.

Less stability with the very real potential of higher costs in the long run.

That's what you would prefer? Just so you don't feel like you are "bribing" someone?

I don't know what other provinces are like but somewhere along the line the sh*t has to stop in B.C. My grand daughter in grade 12 is going to school 1/2 days from April to June........it's a transition from school to the real world..........f**k! This is a long weekend so they get Monday off which is a stat. fine by me but they are also getting Friday off. What's with that sh*t?
 
gerryh
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I don't know what other provinces are like but somewhere along the line the sh*t has to stop in B.C. My grand daughter in grade 12 is going to school 1/2 days from April to June........it's a transition from school to the real world..........f**k! This is a long weekend so they get Monday off which is a stat. fine by me but they are also getting Friday off. What's with that sh*t?


and the province is looking at a 6 to 10 yr contract. Something you are willing to throw out the window so you don't have to pay a signing bonus.
 
BornRuff
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There's two things wrong with it, one is it's bribery and two is it's someone else's money.............not rocket science!

I feel like you are getting way too caught up in semantics and not seeing this for what it is.

You must have understood that the government has to pay money to workers in exchange for their work, right? Exactly what you call that money doesn't change anything.

At the end of the day, all that matters is if the government is getting the best deal possible for the province. If structuring it so that some of the money is paid upfront, and that helps get the deal done, why does that bother you?
 
JLM
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

I feel like you are getting way too caught up in semantics and not seeing this for what it is.

You must have understood that the government has to pay money to workers in exchange for their work, right? Exactly what you call that money doesn't change anything.

At the end of the day, all that matters is if the government is getting the best deal possible for the province. If structuring it so that some of the money is paid upfront, and that helps get the deal done, why does that bother you?

I don't think you really want to get that "can of worms" opened up! -
 
BornRuff
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I don't think you really want to get that "can of worms" opened up! -

Which one is that? Open it up.
 
damngrumpy
#29
First of all if I were a union I wouldn't sign anything longer than three years.
The powers that be want longer term contracts for their purposes and the
unions are dumb enough to go along. Keep them short term and pressure
the system for improvement until the governments learn not to screw with
the workers. In the past the governments have done things outside the law
and its been proven in court When that happens make the government and
the taxpayers pay to enforce the concept that the law must be obeyed by all.
Signing bonuses are handed out because people are willing to sacrifice their
futures. I don't agree with bonuses as there is much more to be gained by
shorter contracts and bigger asks. I say that because the government is the
one that broke the bond of trust nearly a decade ago.
 
JLM
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

Which one is that? Open it up.

I'll open it a crack...............for starters how many hours of instruction are students in B.C. getting in a school year?

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

First of all if I were a union I wouldn't sign anything longer than three years.
The powers that be want longer term contracts for their purposes and the
unions are dumb enough to go along. Keep them short term and pressure
the system for improvement until the governments learn not to screw with
the workers. In the past the governments have done things outside the law
and its been proven in court When that happens make the government and
the taxpayers pay to enforce the concept that the law must be obeyed by all.
Signing bonuses are handed out because people are willing to sacrifice their
futures. I don't agree with bonuses as there is much more to be gained by
shorter contracts and bigger asks. I say that because the government is the
one that broke the bond of trust nearly a decade ago.

Do you really want the threat of a strike every three years? I sure don't.
 

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