Mexican vigilantes can now legally fight cartels


SLM
#1
Mexican vigilantes can now legally fight cartels

By Paul Hosford | TheJournal.ie – 19 hours ago




Authorities began to hand blue uniforms and assault rifles to vigilantes in western Mexico, legalising a movement that formed last year to combat a vicious drug cartel.
Scores of farmers lined up at a cattle ranch to receive the uniforms of the newly created rural state police force in Tepalcatapec, one of the towns that founded the self-defence militias in the lush agricultural state of Michoacan.
The units were also making their début in the neighbouring town of Buenavista, which revolted in February 2013 against the cult-like Knights Templars gang because local police failed to protect them.
“With this we become legal,” said the white-bearded vigilante leader Estanislao Beltran, nicknamed “Papa Smurf,” after slipping into his blue uniform. “We are part of the government.”
The new rural police officers then sang the national anthem at a formal swearing-in ceremony in the town square.
The federal government, which had tolerated the vigilantes, has warned that anybody found carrying weapons illegally after Saturday’s deadline to join the police will be arrested.
But vigilante leaders said they still had to hash out details on pay and who would be in command, though they would work alongside the regular state police.
The rise of the vigilante movement, which spread to some 30 towns, brought fears that it could turn into a dangerous paramilitary force.
The violence in Michoacan turned into one of the biggest security challenges to President Enrique Pena Nieto, who deployed thousands of troops to restore order last year and named a special security envoy earlier this year.
The transition comes amid deep divisions within the vigilante movement, accusations that it is infiltrated by cartels and the recent arrest of one of its founders.
Authorities have also found several cases of criminals posing as vigilantes.
Late Friday, 135 “pseudo-vigilantes” were arrested in La Mira, near the port of Lazaro Cardenas, after clashing with troops, a state security official told AFP.
The movement’s leadership has faced turmoil, too.
On Thursday, the council of self-defense forces in more than 30 towns announced the dismissal of its chief spokesman, Jose Manuel Mireles, who was absent from Saturday’s events.
The council accused him of making public statements without clearance that undermined the movement.
It also said “recent actions” by Mireles had cost the lives of five civilians, but it did not elaborate. Authorities said on Friday they are investigating whether Mireles had a role in the deaths.
Mireles could not be reached for comment.
Another founder of the movement, Hipolito Mora, was arrested in March on charges that he was behind the murders of two fellow vigilantes. He rejects the charges.
Mireles, a tall, mustachioed doctor, told a radio station this week that the vigilante movement was divided and infiltrated by criminals.


https://ca.news.yahoo.com/mexican-vi...174725210.html
 
Tecumsehsbones
+4
#2  Top Rated Post
Can't see how this could possibly go wrong.
 
petros
#3
Damn. I'm going to the wrong state.
 
SLM
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Can't see how this could possibly go wrong.

Maybe they're hoping by legitimizing them they can wield some influence over them? Don't know.

Seems like a scary road to walk down to me.
 
petros
+1
#5
It's etter they have immunity than face charges for shooting cartel.
 
55Mercury
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's etter they have immunity than face charges for shooting cartel.

or conversely, it's better they have immunity, then face charges for shooting cartel.

The law (is an a_ss) is the law (is an a_ss)!
 
SLM
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's etter they have immunity than face charges for shooting cartel.

Comparatively? Sure. But vigilantism is a slippery slope.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+2
#8
And of course, we can be sure they'll only shoot cartel, because vigilantes have such a long history of being professional and ethical.
 
petros
#9
What other options do they have?
 
Colpy
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

And of course, we can be sure they'll only shoot cartel, because vigilantes have such a long history of being professional and ethical.

They could not possibly be worse than the cartels themselves.........
 
lone wolf
+1
#11
Do they accept out-of-towners for a hunting licence?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

They could not possibly be worse than the cartels themselves.........

So, trading narcos for warlords is a good solution for you? Yay.
 
MHz
#13
So it was foresight by Obama shipping all those assault rifles to Mexico while stripping them fro American citizens?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

So it was foresight by Obama shipping all those assault rifles to Mexico while stripping them fro American citizens?

No "assault rifles" were stripped from anybody. The only government actions during the Obama administration strengthened the right of individuals to keep and bear arms.
 
MHz
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

No "assault rifles" were stripped from anybody. The only government actions during the Obama administration strengthened the right of individuals to keep and bear arms.

Who better to know than somebody who lives there.
Assault Weapons Ban summary - Assault Weapons - United States Senator Dianne Feinstein
What the bill does:

The legislation bans the sale, transfer, manufacturing and importation of:
  • All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel.
  • All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
  • All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  • All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine; forward grip; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; or shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
  • All ammunition feeding devices (magazines, strips, and drums) capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.
  • 157 specifically-named firearms (listed at the end of this page).
The legislation excludes the following weapons from the bill:
  • Any weapon that is lawfully possessed at the date of the bill’s enactment;
  • Any firearm manually operated by a bolt, pump, lever or slide action;
  • Assault weapons used by military, law enforcement, and retired law enforcement; and
  • Antique weapons.
 
WLDB
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's etter they have immunity than face charges for shooting cartel.

In theory. How many will they shoot or kill and claim were part of cartels and weren't? Putting this kind of power in people always leads to abuses. Yeah, it sounds nice that these cartels have some real force against them now and something to fear, but they already had that from other cartels. In the end this may just create another one.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

They could not possibly be worse than the cartels themselves.........

Give them time.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

What other options do they have?

Work on eliminating corruption in their government and police forces. So long as those remain things like this will do nothing to solve any problems. Hell, it may even help the cartels. They can certainly afford to buy some of these people or the ones who command them.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Who better to know than somebody who lives there.
Assault Weapons Ban summary - Assault Weapons - United States Senator Dianne Feinstein
What the bill does:

What the bill doesn't do: get passed and become law.
 
Colpy
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

So, trading narcos for warlords is a good solution for you? Yay.

What I want is an armed citizenry capable of defending itself against narco warlords that have killed 120,000 people in 7 years.

I do not think you understand....the warlords are what the people are fighting against.

120,000 dead. Plus 27,000 missing. In seven years.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

What I want is an armed citizenry capable of defending itself against narco warlords that have killed 120,000 people in 7 years.

I do not think you understand....the warlords are what the people are fighting against.

120,000 dead. Plus 27,000 missing. In seven years.

That's not at issue here. What's at issue here is legalising vigilantism.

I got no problem with what the Mexicans are doing. I just pointed out that this move is fraught with potential problems of its own. As long as there are 350 million drug-hungry customers in the U.S. and Canada, there'll be drug movement out of Mexico. Wouldn't be at all surprised of some of these honourable, noble, self-defending vigilantes end up as narcos themselves. Be real surprised if none did.

But, what the heck. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. Everybody gets to play.
 
MHz
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Wouldn't be at all surprised of some of these honourable, noble, self-defending vigilantes end up as narcos themselves. Be real surprised if none did.

You wouldn't have to go far to get the first culprits. Mena connection if the youtube link doesn't show up.


Perhaps the Afghan heroin is now in smokable form (like it never was so has anybody done a CSI on the newest 'crack' to hit the streets?)
 
Colpy
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

That's not at issue here. What's at issue here is legalising vigilantism.

I got no problem with what the Mexicans are doing. I just pointed out that this move is fraught with potential problems of its own. As long as there are 350 million drug-hungry customers in the U.S. and Canada, there'll be drug movement out of Mexico. Wouldn't be at all surprised of some of these honourable, noble, self-defending vigilantes end up as narcos themselves. Be real surprised if none did.

But, what the heck. Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. Everybody gets to play.

What exactly is vigilantism??

It is people taking the enforcement of law into their own hands.

I suggest when there is no other enforcement of law, vigilantism is simply self-defense writ large. Who would not be a vigilante when the cartels are leaving 50 bodies a DAY on the streets, and the police are either paid off or actually cooperating with the cartels??

I agree that sometimes things get out of control, but the best defense against tyranny and the terror of war lords is a well armed civilian population willing to act together to protect themselves.
 
MHz
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

What exactly is vigilantism??

It is people taking the enforcement of law into their own hands.

I suggest when there is no other enforcement of law, vigilantism is simply self-defense writ large. Who would not be a vigilante when the cartels are leaving 50 bodies a DAY on the streets, and the police are either paid off or actually cooperating with the cartels??

I agree that sometimes things get out of control, but the best defense against tyranny and the terror of war lords is a well armed civilian population willing to act together to protect themselves.

Way to go, I finally see you logic in action. Putin couldn't have any better authorization to 'move in' because you should see the Ukraine in the same light you see Mexico. The squads you hope the 'citizens' take care of are the cartel that was spawned during the time of the 'death squads' that were a product of the CIA (School of Americas) and the war on drugs, properly labeled the war on drugs was 'the CIA getting a monopoly on all the hard drugs worldwide (for their masters) and by putting them on the 'black markets' profits tripled'.
What can I say Colpy other than, ...... wait for it, ..... thank you for sharing your wisdom.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

What exactly is vigilantism??

It is people taking the enforcement of law into their own hands.

I suggest when there is no other enforcement of law, vigilantism is simply self-defense writ large. Who would not be a vigilante when the cartels are leaving 50 bodies a DAY on the streets, and the police are either paid off or actually cooperating with the cartels??

Ah, yes. "Anticipatory self-defence." Our excuse for Iraq.

Quote:

I agree that sometimes things get out of control, but the best defense against tyranny and the terror of war lords is a well armed civilian population willing to act together to protect themselves.

Things always get out of control.
 
bill barilko
+1
#24
This thread is so CC-a bunch of ignorant monolingual old fools who have never been near the country in question pontificating on 'what's best'.
 
WLDB
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

What I want is an armed citizenry capable of defending itself against narco warlords that have killed 120,000 people in 7 years.

I do not think you understand....the warlords are what the people are fighting against.

120,000 dead. Plus 27,000 missing. In seven years.

Guns aren't exactly hard to come by. Armed citizenry without organizing itself wouldn't stand much of a chance against narcos or a government force for that matter. Im surprised this fight doesn't get more coverage. With numbers like these it might as well be considered an all out civil war over the last few years. The Mexican government doesn't have control over large areas yet for some reason people ignore it and pretend its business as usual outside of Mexico. A bit odd.

Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

This thread is so CC-a bunch of ignorant monolingual old fools who have never been near the country in question pontificating on 'what's best'.

Ive been there once. I wouldn't say "whats best" but this is a forum where people discuss and debate issues so I'm throwing in an opinion which doesn't mean much. Its just something to do.

Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

What exactly is vigilantism??

It is people taking the enforcement of law into their own hands.

Their version of laws. Lynch mobs are not something Id call "law enforcement." I wouldn't want to be a person caught in the middle on this fight. Do something against the cartels and you might wind up chopped to pieces in a video or hanged from a public building or bridge, do something for them no matter how small you risk getting taken out by a vigilante. Do nothing and you still risk getting killed by both sides.
 
B00Mer
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Maybe they're hoping by legitimizing them they can wield some influence over them? Don't know.

Seems like a scary road to walk down to me.

This has been going on in Mexico for years..

Mexican vigilante gunmen disarm local POLICE so they can rid town of feared Knights Templar drug cartel | Mail Online

In the state of Michoacan Mexico, there are many citizen police forces taking back villages and towns from the corrupt Police, Military officials and Cartels.

Every day the Cartel were kidnapping people and selling girls, dealing drugs.. The people are now taking their country back.. cudo's for their bravery.
 
lone wolf
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

This thread is so CC-a bunch of ignorant monolingual old fools who have never been near the country in question pontificating on 'what's best'.

How Sweet It Is To Be Loved By You JAMES TAYLOR - YouTube



We luvs ya too....
 
SLM
+2
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

This thread is so CC-a bunch of ignorant monolingual old fools who have never been near the country in question pontificating on 'what's best'.

Well it is now that you're here!
 
B00Mer
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

This thread is so CC-a bunch of ignorant monolingual old fools who have never been near the country in question pontificating on 'what's best'.

Yup it's interesting how we can be so opinionated and think we known what's best about society, and project or norms on other cultures and people..

Or in Tecumsehsbones case just belittle the efforts of the people..

Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Can't see how this could possibly go wrong.

How many on this forum have actually lived in Mexico or Central America for 1 year or more?? So do you have any concept of what is going on in Mexico..

Cartels, seizing whole towns and asking for ransoms and raping or killing people... the people are tired of the teary and corruption and are taking back the streets..

I figure all the Libtards on this forum would love this idea, it sorta what Obama suggested..

Obama Civilian Security - YouTube



I love the idea that under the new law, H.R. 748 would require all persons in the US 18-25 to perform 'national service'
 
bill barilko
#30
Quote:

How many on this forum have actually lived in Mexico or Central America for 1 year or more?? So do you have any concept of what is going on in Mexico..

I have-and I speak Spanish as well.
 
no new posts