You Had One Job. . .


Tecumsehsbones
#1
McALESTER, Okla. (AP) A botched execution that used a new drug combination left an Oklahoma inmate writhing and clenching his teeth on the gurney Tuesday, leading prison officials to halt the proceedings before the inmate's eventual death from a heart attack.

Clayton Lockett, 38, was declared unconscious 10 minutes after the first of the state's new three-drug lethal injection combination was administered. Three minutes later, though, he began breathing heavily, writhing, clenching his teeth and straining to lift his head off the pillow.

The blinds were eventually lowered to prevent those in the viewing gallery from watching what was happening in the death chamber, and the state's top prison official eventually called a halt to the proceedings. Lockett died of a heart attack a short time later, the Department of Corrections said.

"It was a horrible thing to witness. This was totally botched," said Lockett's attorney, David Autry.

The problems with the execution are likely to fuel more debate about the ability of states to administer lethal injections that meet the U.S. Constitution's requirement they be neither cruel nor unusual punishment. That question has drawn renewed attention from defense attorneys and death penalty opponents in recent months, as several states scrambled to find new sources of execution drugs because drugmakers that oppose capital punishment many based in Europe have stopped selling to prisons and corrections departments.

Oklahoma inmate dies after execution is botched'

On the other hand, he did die, so you can't say it was a total failure.
 
JLM
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

McALESTER, Okla. (AP) A botched execution that used a new drug combination left an Oklahoma inmate writhing and clenching his teeth on the gurney Tuesday, leading prison officials to halt the proceedings before the inmate's eventual death from a heart attack.
Clayton Lockett, 38, was declared unconscious 10 minutes after the first of the state's new three-drug lethal injection combination was administered. Three minutes later, though, he began breathing heavily, writhing, clenching his teeth and straining to lift his head off the pillow.
The blinds were eventually lowered to prevent those in the viewing gallery from watching what was happening in the death chamber, and the state's top prison official eventually called a halt to the proceedings. Lockett died of a heart attack a short time later, the Department of Corrections said.
"It was a horrible thing to witness. This was totally botched," said Lockett's attorney, David Autry.
The problems with the execution are likely to fuel more debate about the ability of states to administer lethal injections that meet the U.S. Constitution's requirement they be neither cruel nor unusual punishment. That question has drawn renewed attention from defense attorneys and death penalty opponents in recent months, as several states scrambled to find new sources of execution drugs because drugmakers that oppose capital punishment many based in Europe have stopped selling...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Disgusting!
 
Walter
+1
#3
Drugs were probably administered by an anti-death penalty advocate.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+3
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Disgusting!

It's a bizarre alliance of business and do-gooders. They want to make execution more "humane," so they make it more and more complex, with more and more failure points. And zero evidence it's more effective or less painful than hanging.

You know who the first "humane execution" guy was? A French physician.

Named Guillotin.

Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

Drugs were probably administered by an anti-death penalty advocate.

Yep, the world's a conspiracy.
 
Walter
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Yep, the world's a conspiracy.

The world's a stage.

Retributive justice.
Lockett, 38, was convicted of first-degree murder, rape, kidnapping and robbery for a 1999 crime spree with two co-defendants. He was found to have shot teen-ager Stephanie Nieman and burying her alive in a shallow grave where she eventually died. h/t Yahoo news.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

The world's a stage.

Retributive justice.
Lockett, 38, was convicted of first-degree murder, rape, kidnapping and robbery for a 1999 crime spree with two co-defendants. He was found to have shot teen-ager Stephanie Nieman and burying her alive in a shallow grave where she eventually died. h/t Yahoo news.

Please don't misquote Shakespeare.
 
taxslave
+2
#7
Whatever happened to a good piece of rope? Even reusable.
 
Walter
#8
What misquote?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

What misquote?

Your misquote. I was polite in my request. You don't have to accede to it.
 
Spade
+2
#10
The death penalty is a barbarism.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#11
It was a successful execution. He is dead.

As to the drugs, don't they test this stuff on animals first?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

The death penalty is a barbarism.

Your point being?
 
Spade
#13
Abolish the death penalty. However, states who have capital punishment don't listen to Canadian opinion; Americans of conscience must be more vocal.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Abolish the death penalty.

Why?

Quote:

However, states who have capital punishment don't listen to Canadian opinion;

True. Also important to remember it's not just states, there is a Federal death penalty.

Quote:

Americans of conscience must be more vocal.

Yeah, shout louder. It might actually work. While saying the same thing over and over and louder and louder may not make it any more true, it does tend to increase acceptance.
 
Twila
#15
I currently think the death penalty should only be used on serial rapists, serial murders and serial pedophiles. If they can't be cured, or imprisoned for life(meaning until they die), get execute them.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

I currently think the death penalty should only be used on serial rapists, serial murders and serial pedophiles. If they can't be cured, or imprisoned for life(meaning until they die), get execute them.

Define "serial."

Two rapes/murders/kiddiefiddles? Six? Fourteen?

Explain to victim #4 how her violation wasn't worth the death penalty, but victim #9's was.
 
Locutus
#17
boo hoo...

I don't really care how this scumbag died.

A four-time felon, Lockett was convicted of shooting 19-year-old Stephanie Neiman with a sawed-off shotgun and watching as two accomplices buried her alive in rural Kay County in 1999 after Neiman and a friend arrived at a home the men were robbing.
 
Spade
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Why?


True. Also important to remember it's not just states, there is a Federal death penalty.


Yeah, shout louder. It might actually work. While saying the same thing over and over and louder and louder may not make it any more true, it does tend to increase acceptance.

American Exceptionalism in human rights and foreign affairs is your perrogative. Just makes it a tad harder to critcise your Egyptian friends and others whom you support financially and militarily.
The "you" and "your" are plural.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

American Exceptionalism in human rights and foreign affairs is your perrogative. Just makes it a tad harder to critcise your Egyptian friends and others whom you support financially and militarily.
The "you" and "your" are plural.

Ah, yes. "America is the only Western democracy that has the death penalty." Heard it. It's not true. And lying doesn't help your case. Unless you're believed, and I'm sure those that are already convinced will believe you.

Yay. You've got the solid support of people who already supported you. Woo hoo.
 
Spade
#20
Temper, temper!
 
Tecumsehsbones
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Temper, temper!

So your argument adds up to an unsupported value judgment and an appeal to popularity.

Damn, it is Illogical Argument Day!
 
Twila
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Define "serial."

Two rapes/murders/kiddiefiddles? Six? Fourteen?

Explain to victim #4 how her violation wasn't worth the death penalty, but victim #9's was.

ah, good questions. Serial killer as defined in Wiki:
A serial killer is, traditionally, a person who has murdered three or more people[1][2] over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders.[3][4] Some sources, such as the FBI, disregard the "three or more" criterion and define the term as "a series of two or more murders, committed as separate events, usually, but not always, by one offender acting alone" or, including the vital characteristics, a minimum of two murders.[4][5]

The motivation for serial killing is usually based on psychological gratification.[3][4] Most of the killings involve sexual contact with the victim,[6] but the FBI states that motives for serial murder include "anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention seeking".


Maybe a psychological assessment would be needed. Certain criteria would need to be met. Psycopathic tendancies. Sadistic killings?

How to explain to victim#4: I guess the same as they do now. Once the label serial killer is given that would change sentencing.
Last edited by Twila; Apr 30th, 2014 at 10:48 AM..
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

ah, good questions. Maybe I should have qualified my statement with "I'm in favour of" because your questions have brought up some issues.

Maybe a psychological assessment would be needed. Certain criteria would need to be met. Psycopathic tendancies. Sadistic killings?

How to explain to victim#4: I guess the same as they do now. Once the label serial killer is given that would change sentencing.

I picked 4 and 9 because in the U.S., a "mass murder" needs five victims. I'm sure it's very reassuring to the families of the Boston Marathon dead that it wasn't a mass murder.

I favour the death penalty for anybody who causes death or grievous bodily harm to another, and anybody whose criminal action causes a loss of more than $5000 dollars to each of more than 100 people.

I'm not married to those numbers, by the way.

As far as psychological evaluation goes, I think anybody who has without justification killed or raped or maimed another person has given us all the psychological information we need.
 
Twila
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

I picked 4 and 9 because in the U.S., a "mass murder" needs five victims. I'm sure it's very reassuring to the families of the Boston Marathon dead that it wasn't a mass murder.

I favour the death penalty for anybody who causes death or grievous bodily harm to another, and anybody whose criminal action causes a loss of more than $5000 dollars to each of more than 100 people.

I'm not married to those numbers, by the way.

As far as psychological evaluation goes, I think anybody who has without justification killed or raped or maimed another person has given us all the psychological information we need.


I'd be ok with mass murderers also being sentenced to the death penalty.

I think a death penalty sentence shouldn't be just about how many killed/raped so much as the motive behind it. Cruel, callousness or sadistic pleasure. I just don't see this sort of person as being of value. Or having a place in this world. If they can't feel empathy for another living creature, then they can't be trusted to not kill / rape again.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

I'd be ok with mass murderers also being sentenced to the death penalty.

I think a death penalty sentence shouldn't be just about how many killed/raped so much as the motive behind it. Cruel, callousness or sadistic pleasure. I just don't see this sort of person as being of value. Or having a place in this world. If they can't feel empathy for another living creature, then they can't be trusted to not kill / rape again.

They can be with my solution.
 
Twila
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

They can be with my solution.

? Solution?

(I've had one cup of coffee and it's not yet hit my brain)

I'd also be ok with the courts using these people in science experiments to further human understanding of the brain. Not cruel Nazi experiments, but painless probing the brain to see what it does and if frontal labotomies COULD be perfected to prevent rapists, pedophiles, and psychopaths. It would be for the betterment of mankind.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

? Solution?

(I've had one cup of coffee and it's not yet hit my brain)

Sorry, snarky. I meant a person who's been executed can definitely be trusted not to hurt anybody else.

Quote:

I'd also be ok with the courts using these people in science experiments to further human understanding of the brain. Not cruel Nazi experiments, but painless probing the brain to see what it does and if frontal labotomies COULD be perfected to prevent rapists, pedophiles, and psychopaths. It would be for the betterment of mankind.

I'm a mite queasy about that, myself. I realise it may seem a little inconsistent saying the state can take your life but can't do things short of taking your life. I'll have to mull it over.
 
Twila
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Sorry, snarky. I meant a person who's been executed can definitely be trusted not to hurt anybody else.


I'm a mite queasy about that, myself. I realise it may seem a little inconsistent saying the state can take your life but can't do things short of taking your life. I'll have to mull it over.


I'm not a black or white issue kind of person. So, I don't find your feelings on that inconsistent. Life is inconsistfent and I think that it's ok to have differing criteria per an idea or approach.

I can see why human experimentation could be upsetting.
 
EagleSmack
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Abolish the death penalty. However, states who have capital punishment don't listen to Canadian opinion; Americans of conscience must be more vocal.

They are actually. In fact the State Government of Massachusetts refused to allow the people of Massachusetts to vote on it because we would have passed the death penalty. The state legislature let the petition die because they did not want it on the ballot.
 
Sal
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Abolish the death penalty.

Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

Why?

Because it lowers us as a society dropping us to their level could be my argument and I do actually believe that.

My heartfelt reason is, why should they die so easily? The rest of us will suffer through multiple rounds of chemo, or heart disintegration or some other hideous disease. It is human to suffer. They should suffer the humiliation of aging. They should suffer the cruelty of no freedom for as long as their body holds out.

Execution is too expensive and too humane.
 
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