Enbridge: Thwarting vs. ensuring safety and prosperity?


JLM
#1
Would it make more sense if the people opposed to the pipeline put their efforts in to ensuring that it is a safe and viable facility?
 
petros
#2
Delving deeper into things they don't understand?
 
captain morgan
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Delving deeper into things they don't understand?


I like the conspiracy theory angle that this all starts with
 
JLM
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Delving deeper into things they don't understand?


Maybe by delving deeper they'd get to understand it!
 
Zipperfish
+1
#5
I don't think people in BC are very convinced that the provincial and federal governmetns are all that serious about the environment.
 
captain morgan
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

I don't think people in BC are very convinced that the provincial and federal governmetns are all that serious about the environment.


Ironic comment coming from a province that has no problem releasing 100's of thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the ocean each and evey day
 
Zipperfish
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Ironic comment coming from a province that has no problem releasing 100's of thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the ocean each and evey day

Yes--like I said, they're not that serious about the environment. That's my concern.

The environmental impact of the raw sewage, like the impact of the oil sands, is over-rated by a lot of people.
 
captain morgan
+1
#8
My take is that no one is really serious about it - maybe that has to do with the volume of the lobby groups moreso than the gravity and factual seriousness on the issue
 
pgs
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Ironic comment coming from a province that has no problem releasing 100's of thousands of gallons of raw sewage into the ocean each and evey day

But we elected green party to the house of commons and the provincial legislature. How many other provinces can claim the same ?
That sewage discharge may even be coming from Miss Mays riding .

Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

Yes--like I said, they're not that serious about the environment. That's my concern.

The environmental impact of the raw sewage, like the impact of the oil sands, is over-rated by a lot of people.

How many green party representatives from your province ?
 
Zipperfish
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

My take is that no one is really serious about it - maybe that has to do with the volume of the lobby groups moreso than the gravity and factual seriousness on the issue

Well, I have nothing against resource extraction, or the oil sands, or the pipelines. I just ask the companies to do their part (with diligent prevention and preparedness), and the government to do theirs (in oversight and enforcement). Being in the business, I happen to know that the feds completely slashed their environmental emergency response capability to save money a couple of years ago. To me, that is inconsistent with the economic goals of western Canada to become an oil/LNG/mining powerhourse.
 
captain morgan
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

That sewage discharge may even be coming from Miss Mays riding.

Hmmm, I suspect that this would account for possibly 2/3 of that sewage
 
damngrumpy
#12
The only objections I have to the Northern Gateway Pipeline is the company
building it they have a lousy track record. The second objection is I don't
want us selling raw materials to Asia period. They have done enough destruction
to our economy and lifestyle. I believe we should refine all raw materials in this
Country. I also agree that pipelines are far safer than rail but send the pipeline
east./west instead and give our future kids the jobs and prosperity.
 
petros
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Maybe by delving deeper they'd get to understand it!

When the Asia Pacific Corridor was announced 15 years ag BC knew full well there would be lots of pipelines and the ability to move their NG from the BC prairie to the coast along this corridor.

P.S. If 1000 BC Moonbeams were surveyed, what percentage would know that BC has Prairies?

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The only objections I have to the Northern Gateway Pipeline is the company
building it they have a lousy track record. The second objection is I don't
want us selling raw materials to Asia period. They have done enough destruction
to our economy and lifestyle. I believe we should refine all raw materials in this
Country. I also agree that pipelines are far safer than rail but send the pipeline
east./west instead and give our future kids the jobs and prosperity.

They bought an antiquated system in the US just weeks before the line breaks. Conoco is responsible for those failures.
 
JLM
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

I don't think people in BC are very convinced that the provincial and federal governmetns are all that serious about the environment.


Speaking for myself I'd say with 209 conditions imposed they are fairly serious!

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Hmmm, I suspect that this would account for possibly 2/3 of that sewage


How much of Ms. May's discharge f**ks up the air?
 
pgs
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The only objections I have to the Northern Gateway Pipeline is the company
building it they have a lousy track record. The second objection is I don't
want us selling raw materials to Asia period. They have done enough destruction
to our economy and lifestyle. I believe we should refine all raw materials in this
Country. I also agree that pipelines are far safer than rail but send the pipeline
east./west instead and give our future kids the jobs and prosperity.

I don't disagree with any of that but do you support the Kinder Morgan proposal . They have a better track record and are running along an existing right of way ? Many of the same parties that oppose Northern Gateway also oppose Kinder Morgan , Keystone and running
an existing pipe line the opposite direction .

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

When the Asia Pacific Corridor was announced 15 years ag BC knew full well there would be lots of pipelines and the ability to move their NG from the BC prairie to the coast along this corridor.

P.S. If 1000 BC Moonbeams were surveyed, what percentage would know that BC has Prairies?


They bought an antiquated system in the US just weeks before the line breaks. Conoco is responsible for those failures.

Hey the Sumas Prairie and the Matsqui Prairie are right here in the Fraser Valley . Who would have known .
 
petros
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The second objection is I don't
want us selling raw materials to Asia period. They have done enough destruction
to our economy and lifestyle. I believe we should refine all raw materials in this
Country.

What exactly are we shipping to them? With a little digging you'd find out that while it may not be refined it has had the more valuable petrochemicals stripped out leaving a product that is only good for making fuel, a few lubricants and plastic.

The paraffin from bitumen and heavy oil to make plastics is why it's shipped as a raw material and highly desired.

A plastic industry here would never happen with todays regs.

Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

Hey the Sumas Prairie and the Matsqui Prairie are right here in the Fraser Valley . Who would have known .

I could fit both in my farm.

The Northeast region of British Columbia, also known as the Peace region, has a robust agricultural sector which includes a range of products such as grain, oil seed, honey and livestock. With an abundance of rural and agricultural land and a combination of flatland, foothills and mountains, the Northeast is similar to a prairie landscape.

With close to 2.5 million acres in production, the Northeast region is the largest agricultural region in British Columbia, and home to some 1,800 farms, producing well over $100 million worth of product annually. The area has an optimal low-temperature growing season coupled with long hours of daylight, which make agricultural production successful.

Almost 90% of British Columbia's grain and 95% of Canola are produced in the Northeast. Farms in the Northeast enjoy the dual advantages of low land prices and low cost of production. The area’s proximity to west coast grain terminals is also a significant cost advantage. Areas of potential growth and diversification for the sector include livestock finishing, dairy and eggs, and expanded game farming.

Lots of natural gas under that BC prairie.
 
coldstream
+1
#17
There's a real question as to whether these pipelines produce any generally shared wealth.

They seem to consolidate the colonial economic model in Canada as an exporter of unprocessed natural resources.. creating economic benefits for owners (usually foreign)... while failing to produce the refining jobs at home, OR, the economic benefits that an inexpensive and available energy source could in manufacturing for Canada.

They usually manage to evade high Canadian taxes and wages by exporting product to low cost processers, leaving Canadians paying Global prices for energy, as its own energy is processed at Third World Rates and sold at First World Prices.

It's a rigged game, and the Harper government is a mere appendage and shill for this Global shell game.
 
Zipperfish
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Speaking for myself I'd say with 209 conditions imposed they are fairly serious!



Oh yes, they're very serious.

If the government is so serious about the environment, why did they dismantle their emergncy repsonse team in BC? Why have they gutted environmental legislation in Canada? Doesn't seem that serious to me.
 
petros
#19
Quote:

There's a real question as to whether these pipelines produce any generally shared wealth.

They do. Look it up.

Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

Oh yes, they're very serious.

If the government is so serious about the environment, why did they dismantle their emergncy repsonse team in BC? Why have they gutted environmental legislation in Canada? Doesn't seem that serious to me.

It was Federally gutted because it was redundant to Provincal which is better capable of handling Provincal issues which are better funded by the Feds now.
 
Zipperfish
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

They do. Look it up.


It was Federally gutted because it was redundant to Provincal which is better capable of handling Provincal issues which are better funded by the Feds now.

No.

There was a front page article here a month or two ago about a leaked memo from provinicial authoorities that were quite concerned that the feds had abandoned the field. Marine waters are not provinicial jurisdiction.
 
petros
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by ZipperfishView Post

No.

There was a front page article here a month or two ago about a leaked memo from provinicial authoorities that were quite concerned that the feds had abandoned the field. Marine waters are not provinicial jurisdiction.

Feds and Province sit equal as one entity on the just one environmental review instead of fed and provincial reviews.
 
pgs
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

What exactly are we shipping to them? With a little digging you'd find out that while it may not be refined it has had the more valuable petrochemicals stripped out leaving a product that is only good for making fuel, a few lubricants and plastic.

The paraffin from bitumen and heavy oil to make plastics is why it's shipped as a raw material and highly desired.

A plastic industry here would never happen with todays regs.


I could fit both in my farm.

The Northeast region of British Columbia, also known as the Peace region, has a robust agricultural sector which includes a range of products such as grain, oil seed, honey and livestock. With an abundance of rural and agricultural land and a combination of flatland, foothills and mountains, the Northeast is similar to a prairie landscape.
With close to 2.5 million acres in production, the Northeast region is the largest agricultural region in British Columbia, and home to some 1,800 farms, producing well over $100 million worth of product annually. The area has an optimal low-temperature growing season coupled with long hours of daylight, which make agricultural production successful.

Almost 90% of British Columbia's grain and 95% of Canola are produced in the Northeast. Farms in the Northeast enjoy the dual advantages of low land prices and low cost of production. The area’s proximity to west coast grain terminals is also a significant cost advantage. Areas of potential growth and diversification for the sector include livestock finishing, dairy and eggs, and expanded game farming.

Lots of natural gas under that BC prairie.

No kidding Sherlock thanks for the geography lesson .You must have a pretty large farm . You must be a land baron or something .
Is your real name Lorne Green I mean Cartwright ? LOL .
 
Zipperfish
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Feds and Province sit equal as one entity on the just one environmental review instead of fed and provincial reviews.

No.

It was a National Energy Board review. That's federal. The province opposed the pipeline and requires a number of conditions prior to approval.
 
petros
#24
That means it's a go.

Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

You must have a pretty large farm . You must be a land baron or something .

Giddy up!
 
pgs
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That means it's a go.


Giddy up!

lol !!!
 
thinkboutit
#26
It seems foolish to me to be committing ourselves to further exports of our energy resources without a national energy strategy.
 
captain morgan
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by thinkboutitView Post

It seems foolish to me to be committing ourselves to further exports of our energy resources without a national energy strategy.

What does that really mean?
 
petros
#28
We have a national strategy. Companies fund projects with high pump prices and Gov. Rakes in huge on GST to fund ActionPlsn to move more resources to port.
 
captain morgan
#29
So, basically it's a tax-and-spend strategy
 
petros
#30
OPEC and NorAm producers said they were pegging oil at $100 a bbl to pay for massive projects. They aren't done yet.
 

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