Should Shawn Thornton face more than a suspension?


BornRuff
#1
I imagine that anyone who cares has seen the video of Shawn Thornton attacking Brooks Orpik this past weekend. For a quick recap though, after play had stopped, Thornton came up behind Orpik, pulled him to the ice and started pummeling his head against the ice before Orpik had any chance to defend himself. Other players immediately called for medical staff and he left on a stretcher.

Hockey is a physical sport and a whole lot of violence is handled within the rules of the game, but I think at some point a suspension or fine really doesn't fit.

There is some precedent for players facing criminal charges for crossing the line on the ice. Both Marty McSorley and Todd Bertuzzi faced criminal charges for assault for their on ice incidents.

Even in that very same play, there were other very dirty actions taken by other players, but this is different. There are cheap shots that happen during the course of play, and then there is just a full on attack and attempt to seriously injure a player well outside the normal course of play.

What do you guys think?

Brooks Orpik Scary Injury After Sucker Punch by Shawn Thornton 12713 - YouTube

 
damngrumpy
#2
See the play a few moves before that? I say he got what he deserved he thumped
someone else on the way to the players box. Thornton did his job you don't allow
the other side to mess with your teammates. Good old fashioned hockey in my view.
 
Ron in Regina
#3
Huh. I think Football is a very physical game too, and you don't see that
sort'a nonsense very often....and it's stopped ASAP with big fines, ect....

I think Basketball is a very physical game too, and you don't see that
sort'a nonsense very often....and it's stopped ASAP with big fines, ect....

With effective Ref's, I don't see where this kind'a shenanigans should
be allowed at all in Hockey.
 
petros
#4
Baseball has plenty of fights too.
 
karrie
+1
#5  Top Rated Post
That's adrenaline and aggression, it's a challenge to start and stop it at appropriate points, especially when someone you know and care about gets a low blow.


One thing that jumped out at me is, when we were growing up in the hockey culture, you don't cheer or bang your stick on the ice unless someone walks off on their own, or waves from the stretcher. Otherwise, you maintain a respectful silence until they are gone, and the game resumes. Lifting someone onto a stretcher is not an appropriate time to cheer.
 
petros
#6
Wednesday I'm taking 4 of my nieces and nephews to their first WHL game. They are between 5 and 8 years old. All of them are anticipating seeing a fight. It wasn't me who said they might see one but their friends at school. Fighing is a huge part of the hockey culture.
 
lone wolf
#7
Funny how we never see a hockey game break out in a bar-room brawl
 
BornRuff
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

See the play a few moves before that? I say he got what he deserved he thumped
someone else on the way to the players box. Thornton did his job you don't allow
the other side to mess with your teammates. Good old fashioned hockey in my view.

I didn't see the whole game, so I don't really know the play you are talking about. Are you talking about what happened in that video I posted where James Neal got Marchand in the head with his knee? The only incident that I saw with Orpik from earlier in the game was his questionable hit on Eriksson.

Proponents of the "good old" rules of hockey would generally suggest that he should have turned him around and engaged him in a fight, not sneak up behind him and attack him while he is defenseless.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Wednesday I'm taking 4 of my nieces and nephews to their first WHL game. They are between 5 and 8 years old. All of them are anticipating seeing a fight. It wasn't me who said they might see one but their friends at school. Fighing is a huge part of the hockey culture.

This wasn't a fight. Sneaking up behind someone and pummeling their head into the ice is simply an attack.

A fight implies some sort of participation on both sides.
 
petros
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Funny how we never see a hockey game break out in a bar-room brawl

I watched my cousin knock Jordan Tootoo out with one punch in Houston's in Brandon MB. The entire bar cheered and several bought my cousin beer.

Tootoo was being an assshole to the wrong ladies that night.
 
karrie
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Wednesday I'm taking 4 of my nieces and nephews to their first WHL game. They are between 5 and 8 years old. All of them are anticipating seeing a fight. It wasn't me who said they might see one but their friends at school. Fighing is a huge part of the hockey culture.



Like this?


Bench Brawl Drayton Valley vs GP - YouTube

 
damngrumpy
+1
#11
I used to do play by play on radio years ago and fighting was very much a part of
the game. In the old day Bobby Orr could take care of himself as could a number
of others. Gretzky could not never did like the guy. Today we have too many
people who want to change the game to something like chess on ice.
A high brow sport it is not, Vancouver is a prime example of a team that can't win
because they can't fight back in tough games. I hate Boston as I am a Habs fan
but they can defend themselves and their teammates. When fighting goes I won't
be watching hockey anymore. I have seen football fights too. The only useless
sport is soccer little refs in short pants handing out yellow and red cards good god
get real. We can't have real gladiators anymore so we have to settle for sports eh
 
BornRuff
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

I used to do play by play on radio years ago and fighting was very much a part of
the game. In the old day Bobby Orr could take care of himself as could a number
of others. Gretzky could not never did like the guy. Today we have too many
people who want to change the game to something like chess on ice.
A high brow sport it is not, Vancouver is a prime example of a team that can't win
because they can't fight back in tough games. I hate Boston as I am a Habs fan
but they can defend themselves and their teammates. When fighting goes I won't
be watching hockey anymore. I have seen football fights too. The only useless
sport is soccer little refs in short pants handing out yellow and red cards good god
get real. We can't have real gladiators anymore so we have to settle for sports eh

Again, how on earth can you consider that a "fight"?
 
petros
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Like this?


Bench Brawl Drayton Valley vs GP - YouTube

I hope not. I want to see a game. AJHL and SJHL are far more aggressive than WHL They think they have something to prove.
 
damngrumpy
#14
kerri as for the video of the bench clearing brawl I've seen lots of those
Years ago I saw one start at the beginning of a game in a series final
made it a long night for the refs but it was really entertaining
 
EagleSmack
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Like this?

That was a good one Karrie

Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

I imagine that anyone who cares has seen the video of Shawn Thornton attacking Brooks Orpik this past weekend. For a quick recap though, after play had stopped, Thornton came up behind Orpik, pulled him to the ice and started pummeling his head against the ice before Orpik had any chance to defend himself.

Pummeling his head against the ice? Did you watch it?

The knee to the head by Neil was worse IMO.
 
damngrumpy
#16
That was what you get when you take a cheap shot a few plays before if you were
watching the entire game. Its called evening things up. You knee someone in the
head a few plays before and you get what you deserve. Like Bertuzzi a few years
back. The guy he pounded was a guy who took a run at a Canuck two weeks before
then refused to fight Bertuzzi and he got nailed that was a sweet bit of revenge too.
Its how the game is played, don't follow the unwritten rules you get hurt. And by the
way I don't like Vancouver either.
 
petros
+1
#17
I've been a Canucks man from day one and am starting to warm up to the Jets.
 
damngrumpy
#18
I used to belong to a group of fans called the CCF Counter Canuck Fans.
we would bring our booze and snacks and cheer for any team except the
Canucks. The only time I felt torn was when the Canucks played Boston
as I wasn't sure who I hated more.
 
BornRuff
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

That was what you get when you take a cheap shot a few plays before if you were
watching the entire game. Its called evening things up. You knee someone in the
head a few plays before and you get what you deserve. Like Bertuzzi a few years
back. The guy he pounded was a guy who took a run at a Canuck two weeks before
then refused to fight Bertuzzi and he got nailed that was a sweet bit of revenge too.
Its how the game is played, don't follow the unwritten rules you get hurt. And by the
way I don't like Vancouver either.

If you are talking about the knee to the head of Marchand that wasn't Orpik, that was James Neal.

You are definitely in the minority if you think that what Bertuzzi did to Steve Moore was part of the game. The game is not about actually trying to kill people.
 
petros
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

I used to belong to a group of fans called the CCF Counter Canuck Fans.
we would bring our booze and snacks and cheer for any team except the
Canucks. The only time I felt torn was when the Canucks played Boston
as I wasn't sure who I hated more.

I had a really good chuckle when you told me about that. There is a group called the Hab Haters as well.

 
damngrumpy
#21
The game is about winning. It's also about evening things up when your teammates
are attacked. No its not about killing someone and he didn't kill someone he did
end his career though.
Some of these players and Lindros was one of them his own team didn't stand
behind him in the end. I am not for cheap shots without something causing them.
But when someone does something to a teammate and your the policeman on the
team you take the guy out and that is the way its always been.
 
BornRuff
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Pummeling his head against the ice? Did you watch it?

The knee to the head by Neil was worse IMO.

Nobody is defending what Neal did, but how on earth does that make it ok for Thornton to go do this to Orpik?

Orpik's head hitting the ice is all there in brilliant show motion.
 
EagleSmack
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by BornRuffView Post

Nobody is defending what Neal did, but how on earth does that make it ok for Thornton to go do this to Orpik?

Orpik's head hitting the ice is all there in brilliant show motion.

His head hitting the ice... but not Thorton pummeling his head in the ice. You're embellishing it.
 
BornRuff
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The game is about winning. It's also about evening things up when your teammates
are attacked. No its not about killing someone and he didn't kill someone he did
end his career though.
Some of these players and Lindros was one of them his own team didn't stand
behind him in the end. I am not for cheap shots without something causing them.
But when someone does something to a teammate and your the policeman on the
team you take the guy out and that is the way its always been.

The end result isn't the only way to judge these things. Ending someone's career in such a stupid way is bad enough, but Moore could easily have been hurt way more.

Especially when you compare it to the hit on Naslund, which honestly, if you are going to reach for the puck on your knees in open ice, what happened to him is in fact part of the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

His head hitting the ice... but not Thorton pummeling his head in the ice. You're embellishing it.

Lol, what exactly is your definition of that? He drives his head into the ice with his fist.
 
petros
+1
#25
I don't hear anybody bitching about UFC or boxing.
 
BornRuff
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I don't hear anybody bitching about UFC or boxing.

I hear lots of people bitching about that, but if two willing participants want to fight, I don't have a problem with it.
 
petros
+1
#27
Then why the problem with hockey? You know damn well you'll get an a$s kicking for a dirty shot so yeah it is willing and consensual.
 
BornRuff
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Then why the problem with hockey? You know damn well you'll get an a$s kicking for a dirty shot so yeah it is willing and consensual.

Attacks like this are not an accepted part of the game.

In the UFC, if you were to attack someone like that, you would be banned for life from the promotion. It has happened before.

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

kerri as for the video of the bench clearing brawl I've seen lots of those
Years ago I saw one start at the beginning of a game in a series final
made it a long night for the refs but it was really entertaining

I really don't support fighting or any kind, much less this kind of stuff, in junior hockey. They are just kids. Adults paying to watch kids beat the **** out of each other has way too much of a real life Hunger Games feel to it.
 
petros
+1
#29
Pfffffb. You've played hockey have you? How many years?
 
BornRuff
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Pfffffb. You've played hockey have you? How many years?

Lol, my whole life. Have you ever played? Have you even watched the game? How often does stuff like this happen?

Todd Bertuzzi's incident was almost 10 years ago now.
 

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