Boys suspended for playing with toy guns at home

[SLM]

Boys suspended for playing with toy guns at home

QMI Agency

Sep 24, 2013 , Last Updated: 1:31 PM ET

Two Grade 7 boys in Virginia Beach, Va., have been suspended from school and face expulsion after a neighbour complained about them playing with toy guns in one of their yards.
Khalid Caraballo and his friend Aiden were playing with airsoft "zombie hunter" guns in Khalid's yard, when a neighbour called 911, local station WAVY-TV reports. The toy guns shoot rubber pellets.
The unnamed neighbour told WAVY she knew the guns were fake.
"This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know that it makes me (uncomfortable), as a mom, to see a boy pointing a gun," she said.
The boys are suspended from school for "possession, handling and use of a firearm" and may be expelled the remainder of the year.
Larkspur Middle School principal Matthew Delaney said an investigation found the "children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop."
Khalid's home is 70 yards from the bus stop.
"My son is my private property. He does not become the school's property until he goes to the bus stop, gets on the bus, and goes to school," said Khalid's mother, Solangel Caraballo.

Boys suspended for playing with toy guns at home

I don't know what's stupider, that schools are now suspending students for what they do at home (here we can't even get rid of college kids that set fire to a police car in a block party off school grounds!) or that mom really needs to avail herself of a dictionary to learn the definition of the word 'property'. Possibly it's the neighbour calling 911, not filing a report with the police, but actually calling 911.

 

[karrie]

Larkspur Middle School principal Matthew Delaney said an investigation found the "children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus stop."

I don't know what's stupider, that schools are now suspending students for what they do at home

He said/She said.

If the kids were playing in their own backyard, no harm no foul.

But, if they were shooting pellet guns at other people waiting to get on the school bus... that's a way different story and completely justified for neighbours to call for immediate police intervention.

Can you imagine if they weren't suspended if the principal is telling the truth? Keep in mind these are grade 7 boys, not 7 year old boys. They know better than to shoot people with pellet guns, they know the risks. My son is in grade 7, and the thought would never occur to him without protective eye wear and consent.

 

[L Gilbert]

Gunphobia strikes again. School nannyism strikes again. Stupidity is rampant.
The more I learn about people, the more I like my dogs n cats.

 

[WLDB]

Id like to think that this sort of thing wouldnt happen here but Im probably wrong. I am surprised that it happened in Virginia of all places. Hopefully the parents will fight it and have the school's decision reversed. Personally I dont think any school should have any control over what a student does off of school property and off of school hours. If a kid acts up - let the parents deal with it. if they break the law - let the authorities deal with it.

 

[Colpy]

Id like to think that this sort of thing wouldnt happen here but Im probably wrong. I am surprised that it happened in Virginia of all places. Hopefully the parents will fight it and have the school's decision reversed. Personally I dont think any school should have any control over what a student does off of school property and off of school hours. If a kid acts up - let the parents deal with it. if they break the law - let the authorities deal with it.

Read and weep.

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Read and weep.

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

“From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

How is an arrest "conversation"?

 

[L Gilbert]

Read and weep.

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

Gunphobia strikes again. School nannyism strikes again. Stupidity is rampant.

 

[karrie]

Read and weep.

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

Would it even have been illegal for him to own a gun? Is there a law that says your kids can't see your guns? If so, I'm in trouble. My kids have seen guns in the past. They've even seen me handle one. Oops.


That being said, I still think if these kids were actually shooting at fellow students with bb guns as the principal implies, then it's not an out to lunch expulsion. If.

 

[WLDB]

Read and weep.

Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

At least he wasnt charged. But he shouldnt have been arrested in the first place. That is just insane.

That being said, I still think if these kids were actually shooting at fellow students with bb guns as the principal implies, then it's not an out to lunch expulsion. If.

I would say it is if it was off school property. That should be out of their jurisdiction. That should be left to the parents, and if it was something illegal - the authorities. An expulsion wouldnt accomplish anything in the first place.

 

[Goober]

http://www.therecord.com/news-story...fter-daughter-draws-picture-of-gun-at-school/
Monsters- Killing or scaring them away, or sending them off and out of the house is what a daddy or mommy does- - 4 years old and the kid stated such. Man was arrested, charged, charges dropped.
Publicly hauled away in front of parents and other children.
Over reaction to say the least.

And yes I would be chatting with a Lawyer.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

That being said, I still think if these kids were actually shooting at fellow students with bb guns as the principal implies, then it's not an out to lunch expulsion. If.

Innocent until proven guilty. Can the principal prove it happened that way?

 

[Goober]

Updated

WAVY - Has zero tolerance gone too far | WAVY.com | Virginia Beach



Listen to the 911 call from…
Letter from Larkspur Middle…

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (WAVY) - Two seventh grade Virginia Beach students have learned their fates Tuesday morning after they were suspended for shooting airsoft gun.

During a hearing Tuesday morning, Aidan Clark and Khalid Caraballo were given long-term suspensions in a unanimous vote. The suspensions will last until June, but a hearing will be held in January to determine if they will be allowed back in school.

Their parents told WAVY News' Andy Fox their children were expelled, but when Fox looked at the official letter from the school, he found they were long-term suspensions and not expulsions. Their parents still feel as though they were expelled.



Listen to the 911 call from…
Letter from Larkspur Middle…

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (WAVY) - Two seventh grade Virginia Beach students have learned their fates Tuesday morning after they were suspended for shooting airsoft gun.

During a hearing Tuesday morning, Aidan Clark and Khalid Caraballo were given long-term suspensions in a unanimous vote. The suspensions will last until June, but a hearing will be held in January to determine if they will be allowed back in school.

http://www.wavy.com/news

 

[karrie]

At least he wasnt charged. But he shouldnt have been arrested in the first place. That is just insane.



I would say it is if it was off school property. That should be out of their jurisdiction. That should be left to the parents, and if it was something illegal - the authorities. An expulsion wouldnt accomplish anything in the first place.

The bus stop has always been 'school ground'. We were always told that we could be suspended for what happens while waiting for or riding the bus.

Innocent until proven guilty. Can the principal prove it happened that way?

Apparently to their satisfaction they can. He says they investigated. I'm not sure, that's why I've said 'if', repeatedly.

See, there's a balance between being an anti-gun nut, and being a gun nut. This one doesn't really read as nutty if the kids were actually shooting at fellow students at the bus stop, with bb guns.

From the principal's letter.... "we identified the children who were firing pellet guns at each other and at people near the bus stop. Several students verified that they had been hit by pellets and had the marks to support their claims. In one instance, a child was only 10 feet from the bus stop and ran from the shots being fired but was still hit. Another student claimed to be shot in the back while running away during a previous incident Wednesday, Sept. 11. This child was also shot in the arm and head during Thursday’s incident. I contacted the school division’s Office of Student Leadership and School Board Legal Counsel for guidance. Because students were on their way to or at a school bus stop when they were struck by pellets, the school division has jurisdiction "


This just doesn't read like people overreacting, it reads as pretty reasonable response.

 

[damngrumpy]

This crap has to stop. The school system should be responsible for teaching
the courses they teach at school they should have no say in what the children
do in their own yard. Again where the hell are the elected authorities? People
are losing their personal freedoms and their rights at home. Enough already.

 

[karrie]

For all of you defending the rights of these boys to shoot their classmates at the bus stop, please, can you stop and think back.

Columbine......How did no one know? How did no one see? Couldn't anyone tell these boys were losing their minds? It was the cry of almost everyone. People should have been watching, should have been intervening in these boys' lives.

Now tell me, in good faith, as the principal of this school, that when you hear about students shooting other students with pellet guns at the bus stop (and yes, in every single town I've lived in, you are under the rules of the school once you are gathering together as students at the bus stop, and it was no different for any of you growing up), that you would not expel them.

 

[PoliticalNick]

For all of you defending the rights of these boys to shoot their classmates at the bus stop, please, can you stop and think back.

Columbine......How did no one know? How did no one see? Couldn't anyone tell these boys were losing their minds? It was the cry of almost everyone. People should have been watching, should have been intervening in these boys' lives.

Now tell me, in good faith, as the principal of this school, that when you hear about students shooting other students with pellet guns at the bus stop (and yes, in every single town I've lived in, you are under the rules of the school once you are gathering together as students at the bus stop, and it was no different for any of you growing up), that you would not expel them.

Sorry K. This one to me is cut and dry. The school has no jurisdiction on private or public property. They may think they have it and people like you may let them have it but constitutionally they don't. This is just another example of the move toward an Orwellian big brother nanny state. Let the police lay charges if warranted. Let them have a day in court or let the parents deal with it. Next will be school suspensions because Jimmy killed Johnny in an xbox game. I'm not saying it's right to peg people with your bb gun (though I did it and had it done to me as a kid) but this doesn't warrant school interference.

 

[karrie]

Sorry K. This one to me is cut and dry. The school has no jurisdiction on private or public property. They may think they have it and people like you may let them have it but constitutionally they don't. This is just another example of the move toward an Orwellian big brother nanny state. Let the police lay charges if warranted. Let them have a day in court or let the parents deal with it. Next will be school suspensions because Jimmy killed Johnny in an xbox game. I'm not saying it's right to peg people with your bb gun (though I did it and had it done to me as a kid) but this doesn't warrant school interference.

I have never lived in a town, or sent my kids to school in a town, where the bus route wasn't considered part of school, have you? I guarantee that if your kids got in a fist fight at the bus stop, and got suspended, it would never make the news. Guns is just the 'glamour' that made this news.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I have never lived in a town, or sent my kids to school in a town, where the bus route wasn't considered part of school, have you? I guarantee that if your kids got in a fist fight at the bus stop, and got suspended, it would never make the news. Guns is just the 'glamour' that made this news.

I can do one better. Years ago my oldest boy was pushed and punched by a bully on the playground at lunch. He did what I had taught him to do and left said bully on the ground bleeding from the nose and missing a tooth. The school tried to suspend him for fighting. I sent my lawyer to the district office to remind them of the definition of self defence and explain the size of the lawsuit they would face for punishing my child for exercising his rights. They backed down in a hurry. They can claim any policy they like is in force but they cannot circumvent your rights or claim jurisdiction they do not lawfully have.

 

[karrie]

Oh, I have to clarify that... after the age of 8. Before the age of 8, it is expected that a parent will see the children directly onto the bus, and pick them up directly off the bus. After the age of 8, kids are expected to be able to be left at the bus stop to await pickup.

I can do one better. Years ago my oldest boy was pushed and punched by a bully on the playground at lunch. He did what I had taught him to do and left said bully on the ground bleeding from the nose and missing a tooth. The school tried to suspend him for fighting. I sent my lawyer to the district office to remind them of the definition of self defence and explain the size of the lawsuit they would face for punishing my child for exercising his rights. They backed down in a hurry. They can claim any policy they like is in force but they cannot circumvent your rights or claim jurisdiction they do not lawfully have.

Ah, so your claim to them being wrong in this case is legal loopholes and wrangling.... not that what the boys were doing was actually okay, or that what they were doing was what was presented in the article.

See, I don't especially care for school boards, I've had my fair share of butting heads with the administraion.... BUT.... had my 12 year old been shooting fellow students as they waited to board the bus, you can guarantee I would not lift a finger to go to bat for them against the school. They would suffer for their actions. I would not be running to papers crying foul over sweet johnny and his rights to 'play with guns in the backyard' and pretend he was an angel.

 

[petros]

Khalid Caraballo and his friend Aiden were playing with airsoft "zombie hunter" guns in Khalid's yard, when a
neighbour called 911, local station WAVY-TV reports. The toy guns shoot
rubber pellets.

The unnamed neighbour told WAVY she knew the guns were fake.

"This is not a real one, but it makes people uncomfortable. I know
that it makes me (uncomfortable),

The boys are suspended from school for "possession, handling and use of a
firearm" and may be expelled the remainder of the year.
Larkspur Middle
School principal Matthew Delaney said an investigation found the
"children were firing pellet guns at each other, and at people near the bus
stop."

airsoft pellets




Air rifle pellets


The orange tip on an airsoft gun denotes TOY.



Pellet gun is a real "firearm" with no orange tip.



Proportion