Good news from nunavut.

[Machjo]

The languages of Nunavut: A delicate balance | Beyond Words | April 5, 2013

I would not support such legislation under normal circumstances and would probably find it to be somewhat heavyhanded; but when I think of is as a counterbalance to the current language provisions of our constitution, then I'm not even sure if it is strong enough t o serve as a counterbalance, but at least a step in the right direction.

Also, I just thought of this: it would make it more difficult to outsource front-line service jobs unless Inuktitut really boomed as a language

 

[gerryh]

isn't that special. Quebec II in the making.

 

[Machjo]

isn't that special. Quebec II in the making.

So if I understand correctly, it's perfectly acceptable to give English-speakers and French-speakers an unfair advantage in our constitution, but not so if nunavut decides to try to counterbalance it? Why the double standard?


Again, normally I would not be so much in favour of this, but at the same time, how can we discriminate constitutionally in favour of English and French and then not allow Nunavut to pass counterbalancing legislation to try to undo the damage?

If you want fairness for all, then we deofficialize nunavut alongside English and French.

Fair is fair, no?

isn't that special. Quebec II in the making.

Now that I think about it, Quebec is actually Canada II, Canada one being the Federal Official Languages Act. So nunavut is Canada III.

 

[gerryh]

If the language can't stand on it's own, then let it die. No need to spend millions "propping" it up.

 

[Machjo]

If the language can't stand on it's own, then let it die. No need to spend millions "propping" it up.

Agreed. So when are we deofficializing French and English?

If you don't agree to that, then what's with the double standard? We need to prop up English and French to the tune of 1.2 billion each on average and if that undermines Inuktitut, so be it?

Or did I miss something there?

And as for 'spending millions', Nunavut could probably save at least some money deofficializing English and French. First, they're not the majority languages; second, it would save on translation costs.

 

[gerryh]

Agreed. So when are we deofficializing French and English?

If you don't agree to that, then what's with the double standard? We need to prop up English and French to the tune of 1.2 billion each on average and if that undermines Inuktitut, so be it?

Or did I miss something there?

And as for 'spending millions', Nunavut could probably save at least some money deofficializing English and French. First, they're not the majority languages; second, it would save on translation costs.

how are we "propping up" English?

Nunavut wants to be a Canadian territory, then they can learn English. They want to try it on their own/ have at it. Non of our tax dollars go north.

 

[Nuggler]

:lol::lol:8O

 

[Machjo]

how are we "propping up" English?

Nunavut wants to be a Canadian territory, then they can learn English. They want to try it on their own/ have at it. Non of our tax dollars go north.

Federal and provincial bilingualism requirements cost Canadian taxpayers $2.4 billion annually; provinces spend $900 million to provide dual-language services | Fraser Institute

The provision of bilingual services costs the taxpayer an estimated 2.4 billion a year. Between French and English, that's an average of 1.2 billion each! If that's not 'propping up our languages', then please define your meaning of 'propping up our languages'.

And that's just on the monetary side, and does not take into account the non-monetary (employment opportunities for French-English bilinguals vs Cree-Inuktitut bilinguals for instance, or the advantage in contracts and the courts, accessing government services, etc.). You're not going to tell me that the constitution and the law are just part of the free market now, are you?

 

[captain morgan]

I think that by adopting Esperanto, we could really solve this entire problem

 

[Machjo]

Nunavut wants to be a Canadian territory, then they can learn English.

And if they don't like it, then 'Indians go home', right?

They want to try it on their own/ have at it.

At least Nunavut has the land mass to do it, so it could be an idea. I bet they're sitting on lots of mineral resources too.

Non of our tax dollars go north.

And what about the Inuk taxpayer who's been subsidizing your language to the tune of 1.2 billion a year since the Charter was implemented?

I think that by adopting Esperanto, we could really solve this entire problem

Or any other easy-to-learn second language. That way, we'd all be fluently bilingual in our mother-tongue and the auxiliary language easily by the end of jr. secondary school. Immagine the money it would save in interpretation and technical translation costs across the country! Not to mention putting everyone on a relatively more equal footing for those who believe in justice.

 

[captain morgan]

Well, the whole justice thingy is now a slippery slope... Considering that there are presently hundreds of languages being spoken daily in Canada; maybe we'll have to adopt all of these languages as 'official' first, that way there will be no favoritism from the get-go.

In the spirit of equality and justice, I think that it's only fair to have all languages recognized (and spoken) before we bring in esperanto

 

[Machjo]

Well, the whole justice thingy is now a slippery slope... Considering that there are presently hundreds of languages being spoken daily in Canada; maybe we'll have to adopt all of these languages as 'official' first, that way there will be no favoritism from the get-go.

In the spirit of equality and justice, I think that it's only fair to have all languages recognized (and spoken) before we bring in esperanto

There are two ways of bringing about language justice. One is to make all languages equally official. equal, yes, but not at all sustainable economically.

The second is to make no national language official, and instead adopt an international auxiliary language as the common auxiliary or second language, which ensures a common language while still not discriminating in favour of one particular ethnic language.

 

[captain morgan]

There are two ways of bringing about language justice. One is to make all languages equally official. equal, yes, but not at all sustainable economically.

you either have justice or you don't... Economic sustainability is no justification for picking winners and losers

The second is to make no national language official, and instead adopt an international auxiliary language as the common auxiliary or second language, which ensures a common language while still not discriminating in favour of one particular ethnic language.

The most common international language is english

 

[Sal]

Well, the whole justice thingy is now a slippery slope... Considering that there are presently hundreds of languages being spoken daily in Canada; maybe we'll have to adopt all of these languages as 'official' first, that way there will be no favoritism from the get-go.

In the spirit of equality and justice, I think that it's only fair to have all languages recognized (and spoken) before we bring in esperanto

*smack* for misbehavin'

go eat your waffles

 

[Machjo]

The most common international language is english

For those who can learn it.

And there is an economic cost to English too:

The English Spelling Society

you either have justice or you don't... Economic sustainability is no justification for picking winners and losers

How does an international auxiliary language pick winners and losers? Because it's easy to learn, even the poor can learn it in a short time with little investment of time and money, unlike English in which case you really have to choose your parents carefully.

 

[captain morgan]

*smack* for misbehavin'

go eat your waffles

hehehe

Let's call that one of the exceptions, OK?

 

[Machjo]

*smack* for misbehavin'

go eat your waffles

I'm sorry, but that post went right over my head.

 

[Sal]

I'm sorry, but that post went right over my head.

no worries Machjo... enjoy your day...

 

[Christianna]

There should be one official language. There will be people who speak other languages of course, who for one reason or another can not learn that one language and the only place that should make allowances for them is in court with an interpreter. Having 2 official languages here in Canada has caused so much grief, remembering a friend who married an English speaker in Quebec and then moved to BC because she was afraid her new husband would be murdered. We immigrated to Canada in 1969, and I am still confused by the fact that only government people here have to speak both French and English, yet as I understand it it is against the law in Quebec to speak both languages, Why?

 

[Machjo]

There should be one official language. There will be people who speak other languages of course, who for one reason or another can not learn that one language and the only place that should make allowances for them is in court with an interpreter. Having 2 official languages here in Canada has caused so much grief, remembering a friend who married an English speaker in Quebec and then moved to BC because she was afraid her new husband would be murdered. We immigrated to Canada in 1969, and I am still confused by the fact that only government people here have to speak both French and English, yet as I understand it it is against the law in Quebec to speak both languages, Why?

Well it's not exactly against the law to speak English in Quebec, but the law undoubtedly restricts its use significantly through all its sign laws, etc. French chauvinism. We find the same problem in English too.