B.C. newspaper tycoon proposes $13-billion oil refinery for Northern Gateway oil (wit

B00Mer

Keep Calm and Carry On
Sep 6, 2008
44,800
7,297
113
Rent Free in Your Head
www.getafteritmedia.com


B.C. community newspaper publisher David Black has floated the idea of building a $13-billion refinery near Kitimat to reframe the discussion on the Northern Gateway oil pipeline by promising 10 times as many jobs and eliminating the shipment of oil off the coast.

The idea is to process all of the 550,000 barrels a day of Alberta oilsands bitumen from Enbridge’s controversial Northern Gateway project in the refinery, and then ship refined oil products such as gasoline, diesel and kerosene. Black argues if there was a tanker spill, the refined products would cause less environmental damage because they float and evaporate.

Black hopes his proposal will temper opposition from British Columbians and first nations, many of whom have rejected the $6-billion project because they say the economic rewards for B.C. are not great enough to offset the risk and consequence of an oil spill.

See more David Black photos here

Last month, B.C. Premier Christy Clark also declared the province would not even consider the Northern Gateway project unless it gets a much greater share of the economic benefits.

Black acknowledged he has no support from oil producers, who are seeking higher investment returns from shipping and selling crude offshore.

He said he has no financial backers, no partners and has not discussed the idea with potential Asian customers. He has had only brief discussions with a pair of first nations in the Kitimat area.

Black, who owns more than 150 newspapers in Western Canada and the U.S., made it clear he would not be investing in the refinery himself, noting even a one-per-cent stake would cost $130 million.

Still, he said he believes support and financial backing can be found for the refinery and that people will listen to him.

The publisher described himself as a “quiet environmentalist” whose “nation-building” proposal would benefit the province by reducing environmental impact, creating jobs and securing economic benefits from developing the controversial pipeline.

“I’m hoping this will jump-start a change in the debate,” he told reporters at a press conference in downtown Vancouver.

“In other words, instead of just saying ‘no,’ let’s say ‘how can we work with this to our advantage — get a lot out of it and solve potential problems at the same time.’ ” Black said he has support for the concept from Enbridge CEO Pat Daniel, although the Calgary-based company declined to comment Friday.

The proposed refinery site is 3,000 hectares of industrial-zoned Crown land 25 kilometres north of Kitimat known as Dubose, which Black does not own. He has reserved a name for a company, Kitimat Clean Ltd., but has not incorporated the company.

Black plans to submit an environmental assessment application to B.C. regulators next month, using his own money, which he estimates will cost a few million dollars.

The proposed refinery in Kitimat would provide as many as 3,000 permanent and contract jobs, 10 times more jobs than an export pipeline, he said.

Another 6,000 workers would be hired during a five-year construction period.

In comparison, the Northern Gateway pipeline is estimated to create about 350 permanent and contract jobs in B.C., as well as thousands more during its three-year construction phase.

Black said he has briefed Premier Clark, but the province hasn’t told him what its position on his proposal is yet.

On Friday, a statement from B.C. Energy Minister Rich Coleman’s office said the province looks forward to seeing more details on the refinery.

Black also briefed staff at the Prime Minister’s Office, who encouraged him to propose the project, he added.

Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver said Friday the federal government welcomes any project that boosts Canadian exports and jobs, but he wouldn’t pass judgment on the idea.

“If he’s serious, it’s presumably because he’s pushed the numbers and come to a case. But I’m not in a position to know whether this is likely or not,” said the minister, who learned about the proposal through media.

Black’s proposal, which would have the refinery approved by regulators and operational by 2020, was met with skepticism among industry players and observers, and rejected by critics of the Gateway project.

Black was confronted at the press conference by Coastal First Nation executive director Art Sterritt, who warned the publisher should consult with first nations before filing an environmental assessment application.

“Otherwise you are wasting your money.”

Does the refinery proposal affect your stance on the pipeline?

Sterritt lauded Black in an interview for acknowledging that shipping oil off the coast was not a good idea, but said a refinery brings a suite of new problems, including air pollution in the pristine Kitimat Valley.

The Yinka Dene Alliance in northern B.C., said it remains opposed to the project.

The alliance represents five first nations whose claimed traditional territory encompasses 25 per cent of the pipeline route. “I don’t know how many times we have to say no. [This idea] is another wolf in lamb’s clothing,” said the alliance’s Geraldine Thomas-Flurer.

Josh Paterson, staff lawyer at West Coast Environmental Law, said Black’s announcement caught the environmental movement off guard.

“People are floored by this. Where is this coming from? In terms of building trust and relationships, this is the wrong way to go.”

University of Calgary public policy professor Michal Moore said it is “naive” to think a refinery would be built near Kitimat.

The Asian market is not looking for refined products, but oil, he said. It would also be virtually impossible to mobilize the labour force and infrastructure in a “tiny place” such as Kitimat to support a refinery.

The associations representing Canadian oil producers and refiners offered modest support.

“The thing that’s key for us as producers is the need for market access,” said Greg Stringham, vice-president of the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers. “Any concept that helps facilitate that discussion is worth looking at.”

John Skowronski, director of government and stakeholder relations for the Canadian Petroleum Products Institute, called Black’s plan “an interesting proposal.”

“But at this point it’s sort of a trial balloon if you will.” he said.

The federal and provincial New Democratic Party and union leaders — who have long opposed oilsands pipelines, partly because they believe bitumen should be upgraded and processed in Canada — were skeptical if not outright hostile to the idea.

“I don’t think it changes anything in terms of public opinion in B.C. against the Northern Gateway project,” NDP natural resources critic Peter Julian said. “The pipeline still threatens thousands of jobs in the fisheries and in tourism.”

B.C. NDP energy critic John Horgan said Black’s proposal does nothing to change his party’s objections to the Northern Gateway, nor to the idea of increasing tanker traffic on the north coast.

Alberta Federation of Labour president Gil McGowan said his organization has always favoured keeping refining jobs in Canada rather than effectively exporting jobs, along with unprocessed bitumen, to other countries.

“But we are not convinced this is a credible proposal,” he said. “Is this a real proposal or is it simply a ruse to help get the pipeline built?”

The proposed Northern Gateway pipeline is meant to open up new markets for crude from the Alberta oilsands, breaking the reliance on the U.S. market, and fetching a higher price — an estimated $15 billion more a year — for Canada’s oil.

Black argued that goal can also be achieved with a coastal refinery with access to Pacific Rim markets.

There would also be about 30-per-cent fewer tanker loads out of Kitimat because the diluent used to thin bitumen piped to Kitimat would be stripped out during refining and sent back to Alberta via pipeline. Black also argued that building the refinery in B.C. will ensure it is a state-of-the-art facility with a lower environmental footprint than if it were built in other areas.

While it would produce about seven million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions, those emissions would have been produced anyway, he said.

Read more: B.C. newspaper tycoon proposes $13-billion oil refinery for Northern Gateway oil (with poll)
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
They talked about this the other day on Rutherford and apparently they make more money exporting raw bitumen then refined products.

This project was given a no go on the radio show yesterday,take it for what it is,a talk show.They also talked about shipping it through Nunavut, interesting discussion.

Deep down I think the B.C. premier wants it but wants to get more cash for it.
 

B00Mer

Keep Calm and Carry On
Sep 6, 2008
44,800
7,297
113
Rent Free in Your Head
www.getafteritmedia.com
I would like to see Canada refine our own fuel.. it's better for our economy..

Greed can not dictate everything, 1500 permanent jobs for an area that has seen it's share of hard times is better for Canada.. this is a win/win for Canada and BC.

Jobs for Canadians, lower prices at the pump for BC'ers and China and other countries get's our finished product..
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
I would like to see Canada refine our own fuel.. it's better for our economy..

Greed can not dictate everything, 1500 permanent jobs for an area that has seen it's share of hard times is better for Canada.. this is a win/win for Canada and BC.

Jobs for Canadians, lower prices at the pump for BC'ers and China and other countries get's our finished product..

I agree but I think the big companies make more exporting it as raw bitumen.
Nunavut also saw what the BC premier was doing, that's why they are making themselves available as an option.
This is only one line,there will be many more right next to it on the same right of way once this ones approved.

We do that now,share right of ways on pipelines and powerlines.

I'm all for more Canadian jobs but too many just think this is easy money in their coffers like BC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yXzZTYjUl0
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Ever since Alberta told Trudeau to let them freeze in the dark if the rest of Canada does not want to pay their oil prices sent a strong message that provinces will protect their assets at any cost. I am very surprised that oil and money rich Alberta did not build more refineries to produce finished products for the export markets where they would get more money.

Canada has to change their way of thinking where our country's resources gets processed in this country as finished products before it goes to other lands.
 

skookumchuck

Council Member
Jan 19, 2012
2,467
0
36
Van Isle
It would be nice if some sanity would come through the hysteria. The NDP are in a spot now, if they form the next government they have to face the reality of needing jobs, businesses, and taxes that WILL NOT come from the anti everything crowd they so embrace.
It is not rocket science to hold the big corporations feet to the fire regarding environmental protection, in fact they know damn well it is coming and will protest but cave and pass the costs along, so don't hold your breath about cheaper fuel.
The interesting part is how the BC government will spin it in order to back up while appearing to go forward.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
Ever since Alberta told Trudeau to let them freeze in the dark if the rest of Canada does not want to pay their oil prices sent a strong message that provinces will protect their assets at any cost. I am very surprised that oil and money rich Alberta did not build more refineries to produce finished products for the export markets where they would get more money.

Canada has to change their way of thinking where our country's resources gets processed in this country as finished products before it goes to other lands.


We should have listened to Lougheed,we have been getting ripped off for billions since his time by greedy "Canadians" that talk about being a benefit for Canada but really have an agenda.

We do all the work and development and then everyone has their hand out.
 
Last edited:

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
We should have listened to Lougheed,we have been getting ripped off for billions since his time by greedy "Canadians" that talk about being a benefit for Canada but really have an agenda.

Alberta did pay the price for b!tch slapping the rest of Canada with their freeze in the dark statement when the federal tax was put on the oil well head that meant that the tax started when the oil came out of the ground.

Two terms of Conservative Mulroney and he wanted to change the oil deal and after the west dumped the Conservatives by burning their cards and forming a new Conservative party and when Harper got the majority guess what? Harper's Conservatives want to change the oil deal.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,303
11,389
113
Low Earth Orbit
Why doesn't this guy just build the refinery on the AB/BC border and pipe the finished product the rest of the way to Kitimat?
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
Why doesn't this guy just build the refinery on the AB/BC border and pipe the finished product the rest of the way to Kitimat?

Because they would then have to pay for it.

Alberta did pay the price for b!tch slapping the rest of Canada with their freeze in the dark statement when the federal tax was put on the oil well head that meant that the tax started when the oil came out of the ground.

Two terms of Conservative Mulroney and he wanted to change the oil deal and after the west dumped the Conservatives by burning their cards and forming a new Conservative party and when Harper got the majority guess what? Harper's Conservatives want to change the oil deal.
I'm not worried,oil will make the rules.
Not the government.

Most Canadian oil companies and the oilsands are owned my Americans anyways,so secretly they are securing a future oil supply or speculating big time.

lot,s of juniors being scooped up
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Because they would then have to pay for it.


I'm not worried,oil will make the rules.
Not the government.

Most Canadian oil companies and the oilsands are owned my Americans anyways,so secretly they are securing a future oil supply or speculating big time.

Government makes the laws that oil has to comply with.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
They who?

All these folks that are now seeing the benefit of this product and realizing if they want in on the coin involved they have to put out some themselves.
I'm all for refining it here but I dont think we even have enough people to work in that sector.
It still has to be shipped by line and then ship.

Government makes the laws that oil has to comply with.
And most oil companies meet and then exceed the standards in their policies and procedures.
Govt. regs and policies are not very tough when compared to what the oil companies set out for themselves.

All these folks that are now seeing the benefit of this product and realizing if they want in on the coin involved they have to put out some themselves.
I'm all for refining it here but I dont think we even have enough people to work in that sector.
It still has to be shipped by line and then ship.


And most oil companies meet and then exceed the standards in their policies and procedures.
Govt. regs and policies are not very tough when compared to what the oil companies set out for themselves.

Have fun folks!
early morning tomm.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
And most oil companies meet and then exceed the standards in their policies and procedures.
Govt. regs and policies are not very tough when compared to what the oil companies set out for themselves.

The other Prime Minister said "Just watch me"
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,041
0
36
Ontario
We should have listened to Lougheed,we have been getting ripped off for billions since his time by greedy "Canadians" that talk about being a benefit for Canada but really have an agenda.

We do all the work and development and then everyone has their hand out.

You should, indeed, have listened to Lougheed. Lougheed agreed to a deal that worked for Canada and the little bit that is Akberta.

The "freeze in the dark" saying was by one of your politicians who spent more time in a bar than at his job.
 

Cabbagesandking

Council Member
Apr 24, 2012
1,041
0
36
Ontario
I'm really interested to read some informed sober comment on this proposal but I see from the posts so far this forum is not the place to find it.

What sort of comment are you looking for, Bill? The comment I would give is that it is one more cut in the suicide by one thousand cuts for the Planet. The most optimistic estimate of the time that it will take for the Planet to become friendly to human life again is 1000+ years. This is greed that will help make that into 1500 years.

Fifty generations to curse us instead of thirty.

And not one addressing this. Strange that they say it all about money; the way we choose, that is. When the sickness of the Planet is all about making money, temporarily, rather than treat the disease.

It is not worthy of comment in any other aspect.