B.C. Teachers strike hitting outdoor education operators

[JLM]

You really have to wonder how much that Susan Lambert worries about collateral damage!

B.C. Teachers strike hitting outdoor education operators - British Columbia - CBC News

 

[karrie]

You have to wonder if the government realizes that perhaps they should be paying their teachers appropriately if the economy is so hinged on them. If teachers not volunteering their time means businesses go under, and children aren't getting the education they deserve (based on volunteering), then the system is n.f.g. not functioning good.

 

[JLM]

You have to wonder if the government realizes that perhaps they should be paying their teachers appropriately if the economy is so hinged on them. If teachers not volunteering their time means businesses go under, and children aren't getting the education they deserve (based on volunteering), then the system is n.f.g. not functioning good.

How much should teachers earn for 9 months work? $75,000 for some of them not enough?

 

[karrie]

They work 12 months a year, putting in longer days due to 'volunteer' commitments, than most people would be allowed to work. I don't know a single teacher who sits around doing nothing in the summer. Professional development, course development, and often even more extracurricular work. Let's face it JLM... you see no worth in teachers. Thus you're never going to think they deserve to be working under a contract, not forced to work without one. You're never going to think they deserve to make a year's pay. You're never going to think that perhaps if the economy relies that heavily upon someone, they should be paid accordingly.

 

[captain morgan]

I have a few teachers in my extended family and have never observed them doing what you suggest in the summer. Only the admin folks (that I am aware of) have retained ongoing obligations 12 months a year

 

[JLM]

They work 12 months a year, putting in longer days due to 'volunteer' commitments, than most people would be allowed to work. I don't know a single teacher who sits around doing nothing in the summer. Professional development, course development, and often even more extracurricular work. Let's face it JLM... you see no worth in teachers. Thus you're never going to think they deserve to be working under a contract, not forced to work without one. You're never going to think they deserve to make a year's pay. You're never going to think that perhaps if the economy relies that heavily upon someone, they should be paid accordingly.

You're wrong Karrie, I value good teachers a great deal, but there is a limit to how much we can afford to pay. Enough's enough. Every night on the T.V. news I see homeless people living under a chunk of card board and eating scraps, so I don't think teachers are hard done by at $75 grand. Sorry.

 

[karrie]

You're wrong Karrie, I value good teachers a great deal, but there is a limit to how much we can afford to pay. Enough's enough. Every night on the T.V. news I see homeless people living under a chunk of card board and eating scraps, so I don't think teachers are hard done by at $75 grand. Sorry.

So, if you go ask for a raise, would you expect to be compared to a homeless person and told to suck it up?

No, I really don't think so. They're not homeless, they have houses, families, bills the same as everyone else, and deserve to negotiate what they get paid, the same as everyone else.

Homeless people don't exist because teachers are taking too big a wage JLM... drop everyone's pay 20%, and homelessness rates wouldn't budge.

 

[captain morgan]

So, if you go ask for a raise, would you expect to be compared to a homeless person and told to suck it up?

The question is: Is a raise justified?

Almost everyone in the Canadian workforce has taken it on the chin in the last few years and managed with making less money, what makes the teachers so different or how have they surpassed their previous goals/productivity such that they are in a position to demand more?

 

[JLM]

I have a few teachers in my extended family and have never observed them doing what you suggest in the summer. Only the admin folks (that I am aware of) have retained ongoing obligations 12 months a year

That is closer to my observation and I've had family members teaching too.

 

[karrie]

I have a few teachers in my extended family and have never observed them doing what you suggest in the summer. Only the admin folks (that I am aware of) have retained ongoing obligations 12 months a year

Funny, the teachers I know work. But then they're very involved in sports coaching, admin, etc.... they work their asses off.

 

[JLM]

Funny, the teachers I know work. But then they're very involved in sports coaching, admin, etc.... they work their asses off.

What with computers and a hundred different varieties of mechanization today, Karrie, very very few people today "work their asses off".

Pulling boards off a green chain or setting chokers is working your "ass off" and even those jobs aren't as plentiful as they once were.

 

[karrie]

The question is: Is a raise justified?

Almost everyone in the Canadian workforce has taken it on the chin in the last few years and managed with making less money, what makes the teachers so different or how have they surpassed their previous goals/productivity such that they are in a position to demand more?

Perhaps a raise isn't justified. But, if everyone's dealing with roll backs and taking it on the chin.... why would anyone expect teachers to continue volunteering and protecting THEIR finances?

 

[JLM]

Perhaps a raise isn't justified. But, if everyone's dealing with roll backs and taking it on the chin.... why would anyone expect teachers to continue volunteering and protecting THEIR finances?

I'm not sure exactly what "volunteering" you are talking about, I know occasionally teachers do participate in activites outside the hours of 8-5, but that is not normal procedure, I DON'T THINK.

 

[karrie]

I'm not sure exactly what "volunteering" you are talking about, I know occasionally teachers do participate in activites outside the hours of 8-5, but that is not normal procedure, I DON'T THINK.

"Jamie Boulding says his business has been in a tough financial position since teachers pulled their participation in extracurricular activities."

Perhaps you should read your articles more thoroughly then. The trips that you're complaining are being cancelled are volunteer, extracurricular, outside the normal 8-5. That's what you're complaining about the teachers not doing.

 

[TenPenny]

So, if you go ask for a raise, would you expect to be compared to a homeless person and told to suck it up?

No, I really don't think so. They're not homeless, they have houses, families, bills the same as everyone else, and deserve to negotiate what they get paid, the same as everyone else.

Homeless people don't exist because teachers are taking too big a wage JLM... drop everyone's pay 20%, and homelessness rates wouldn't budge.

I think he's saying that his pension is too high.

I'm not sure exactly what "volunteering" you are talking about, I know occasionally teachers do participate in activites outside the hours of 8-5, but that is not normal procedure, I DON'T THINK.

Think again, because every school sports team and extra curricular actvity that my kids are in does involve after-hours, or before-hours, work by teachers, and it's all volunteer.

 

[CDNBear]

There are two teachers that live on my street, they vacation all summer. On top of vacations throughout the year. On top of the the usual school breaks.

Why does teachers volunteering for extracurricular stuff always get brought up?

I volunteer to work with at risk Native kids. I don't do it for the monetary gain, obviously, I do it for the kids. I figured most teachers do it for the same reason. Throwing it out there, every time teachers salaries are questioned, devalues the effort by those who do it just for the kids.

What does the fact that some teachers choose to take courses or do things by choice for personal growth, have to do with the fact that they get 3 months of the year off?

 

[captain morgan]

Perhaps a raise isn't justified. But, if everyone's dealing with roll backs and taking it on the chin.... why would anyone expect teachers to continue volunteering and protecting THEIR finances?

I don't disagree with the volunteering issue, quite frankly, that should be a paid component.

That said, it brings up some interesting issues. Not all teachers volunteer, so why would there be a broad-brush raise for all? Secondly, at some point there needs to be a measuring-stick to determine the effectiveness and productivity in order to assess the opportunity for a raise.

 

[taxslave]

"Jamie Boulding says his business has been in a tough financial position since teachers pulled their participation in extracurricular activities."

Perhaps you should read your articles more thoroughly then. The trips that you're complaining are being cancelled are volunteer, extracurricular, outside the normal 8-5. That's what you're complaining about the teachers not doing.

Sorry Karrie but you are wrong. These are all either daytime or in the case of Strathcona park lodge a week long outing that is more or less part of the curriculum. Teachers that go along get PAID for this game playing just like when they visit the ski hill for the day. This I know for sure because I know the operations and I worked on a ski hill for several years. IF memory serves it is grade 4 and 7 that the ski hill owners association promotes ski days.

There are two teachers that live on my street, they vacation all summer. On top of vacations throughout the year. On top of the the usual school breaks.

Why does teachers volunteering for extracurricular stuff always get brought up?

I volunteer to work with at risk Native kids. I don't do it for the monetary gain, obviously, I do it for the kids. I figured most teachers do it for the same reason. Throwing it out there, every time teachers salaries are questioned, devalues the effort by those who do it just for the kids.

What does the fact that some teachers choose to take courses or do things by choice for personal growth, have to do with the fact that they get 3 months of the year off?

In B.C. teachers get paid based on length of service and degrees, not on the grade they teach. They are also free to work at real jobs during the summer and some of them do. Many just lay around and complain about how tough they have it while the rest of us work 50 weeks a year.
A large part of the complaint here is that the teachers union told the membership they could no longer volunteer. That is just plain wrong and should be illegal.
Then they wonder why we don't like their union.

 

[karrie]

Sorry Karrie but you are wrong. .

uhm... no... apparently the facilities owner is 'wrong'. But given the choice between your experience/view, and his, I think I'm gonna stick with his complaints as per the article.

Yeah, definitely, going back and reading, they do education WEEKS at his facility, and those do not run 8-5 for the teachers, they're there for the WEEK too... 24/7. Kind of hard to ignore what someone who actually, currently, is dealing with this, has to say.

 

[JLM]

You have to wonder if the government realizes that perhaps they should be paying their teachers appropriately if the economy is so hinged on them. If teachers not volunteering their time means businesses go under, and children aren't getting the education they deserve (based on volunteering), then the system is n.f.g. not functioning good.

Are we talking pay or are we talking voluneering?