Anarchy 101

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
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In 2012 it's somewhat hard to believe that all of this:


Video: Violence erupts at 'illegal' student protest in Canada - YouTube


is happening because of this:




h/t: small dead animals


related: CBCNews.ca - Post-secondary tuition across Canada
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
A few years back, I was listening to AM radio in AB and they were interviewing the head of the Student's Unions of Canada (apparently, there is such a thing). This fool was going on about how secondary education should be a right in Canada.

Well, as this was a call-in show, I called in... I stated that as an alumni of on of the Universities that he was speaking on behalf of, that I supported their position - whole heartedly... Buddy was pleased, but when asked if he would go to bat for me to recoup my tuition/fees for the 2 degrees that I had (foolishly) paid for - he was strangely silent.

Apparently, buddy wasn't prepared to share in the bounty that he felt he deserved... His position via the talk show deteriorated rapidly from there.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Why not just raise taxes and keep tuitions low if that's what the province wants?
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
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London, Ontario
Sooo.....these students are protesting, due to their tuitions increasing
from being the lowest in the country, to a point where they're still the
lowest in the country? There is an "Equalization" joke in here somewhere.

Everybody keeps saying that these kids don't or haven't learned anything. I disagree, I think they've learned a lot.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease right?
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
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Nearly 60% of folks actually support Charest on this. These stoogent crybabies should cut their loses while they can still can.
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
2,233
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Montreal
Sooo.....these students are protesting, due to their tuitions increasing
from being the lowest in the country, to a point where they're still the
lowest in the country?

Suppose there was a tax for being a woman throughout the country and that Quebec's tax was the lowest. The fact that the rest of Canada has a higher price for being a woman doesn't make the tax right in the first place!!!

This is of course an extreme example but I'm just using it to demonstrate how comparing the price between Quebec and the ROC is not the proper way to assess the rightness of making high education expensive. The philosophy behind the movement is that higher education should be accessible to all.

Most of you folks in the ROC seem to believe in this idea that money buys you the right to get educated. Some of us in Quebec don't buy that. I personally would rather payback my education through the income taxes I'll pay throughout my life. Seems to make more sense than starting life with a ridiculous debt that only benefits financial institutions.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
The philosophy behind the movement is that higher education should be accessible to all.
A philosophy I support most strenuously. To the point it should be free to all that meet the educational requirements.

Most of you folks in the ROC seem to believe in this idea that money buys you the right to get educated. Some of us in Quebec don't buy that. I personally would rather payback my education through the income taxes I'll pay throughout my life. Seems to make more sense than starting life with a ridiculous debt that only benefits financial institutions.
No more ridiculous than thinking violence and destruction of property is a good way to get your point across.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Why not just raise taxes and keep tuitions low if that's what the province wants?

The question is: Is that what the province wants or is that what the users of the service want?

I am definitely all for maintaining a post secondary system that is both accessible and affordable to those that have the interest and desire to go down that road. However, I also believe that it is necessary that all participants are fully committed and vested in that process, after all, the decisions made at that level will have a significant impact on your life.
 

BruSan

Electoral Member
Jul 5, 2011
416
0
16
Suppose there was a tax for being a woman throughout the country and that Quebec's tax was the lowest. The fact that the rest of Canada has a higher price for being a woman doesn't make the tax right in the first place!!!

This is of course an extreme example but I'm just using it to demonstrate how comparing the price between Quebec and the ROC is not the proper way to assess the rightness of making high education expensive. The philosophy behind the movement is that higher education should be accessible to all.

Most of you folks in the ROC seem to believe in this idea that money buys you the right to get educated. Some of us in Quebec don't buy that. I personally would rather payback my education through the income taxes I'll pay throughout my life. Seems to make more sense than starting life with a ridiculous debt that only benefits financial institutions.

Soooo; by extension you believe that universities should be fully funded by taxpayers only? Obviously the "business" of operating a University that requires "business" decisions on budgetary spending of salaries etc., to attract top professors shouldn't enter into the equation at all? You think corporate or philanthropic donations would still be forthcoming in that scenario?

Sorry; but once again it would be my position; Quebec's decision, should it happen, to fund their universities in a different fashion than the other provinces should not enter into the federal arena, and hence from my pocket at all, thank you!

You wrongly attibute these thoughts to the "ROC" when it is obvious a significant portion of Quebecers feel exactly the same. FAIL to ignite that old "us agin them" fervor big time with this one. Now that you've squandered that Quebec against the ROC false strawman, what's next?

Secondary education SHOULD involve sacrifice and some hard work on behalf of it's attendees otherwise our universities would be full of 40 year old layabouts all taking their second or third masters degree without any intention of ever using the things to be productive citizens.

The picture of them laying down is highly apropo in my mind.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,122
7,989
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Regina, Saskatchewan
Suppose there was a tax for being a woman throughout the country and that Quebec's tax was the lowest. The fact that the rest of Canada has a higher price for being a woman doesn't make the tax right in the first place!!!

This is of course an extreme example but I'm just using it to demonstrate how comparing the price between Quebec and the ROC is not the proper way to assess the rightness of making high education expensive. The philosophy behind the movement is that higher education should be accessible to all.

Most of you folks in the ROC seem to believe in this idea that money buys you the right to get educated. Some of us in Quebec don't buy that. I personally would rather payback my education through the income taxes I'll pay throughout my life. Seems to make more sense than starting life with a ridiculous debt that only benefits financial institutions.


Those that can pay outright, do. Those that can't, get a student loan.
Doesn't that make post secondary education accessible to all? It is
not free, nor is it compulsory. It's a choice that some choice to
indulge themselves of in the hope of a better future income, leaving
one the ability to repay the student loan, if needed, with a net gain
in the long run.

It's good to see that these protests are peaceful without damage to
public property, so that these students can win over the hearts and
minds of those that they choose to supplement (financially) their
post secondary educations thought the tax system, I guess,
so that their student debts upon graduation can remain a
fraction of what other Canadians would pay.

If this isn't the case, it would be a case of biting the hand that feeds
them (financially) which would be a sign of utter stupidity, leaving
me to question their levels of intelligence to be able to function
in the real world and actually repay a student loan, even if it's only
a portion of what other Canadians would deal with.

It's outrageous that any of us would have to pay for a post secondary
education, that is a choice, and not a right, even in this day and age.
Now clean drinking water should a right and free to all somehow,
even though that doesn't come without a cost....but we all (I assume)
pay for that privilege or they turn off our individual taps. This doesn't
have the punch of a "woman tax," but it's the closest analogy I could
think of on short notice.

And out of curiosity, how do you (or anyone) decide that anything is, or
isn't expensive without comparing it's cost to something else?
 
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CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Ontario
Doesn't that make post secondary education accessible to all?
No...

There is a whole aspect of society that is disqualified, because OSAP considers their parents income to be sufficient to afford paying for their education.

Depending on the chosen field, that may require them to mortgage their home. After working hard to pay it off, or pay down the mortgage, who wants to re mortgage themselves late in life?
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
28,429
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
No...

There is a whole aspect of society that is disqualified, because OSAP considers their parents income to be sufficient to afford paying for their education.

Depending on the chosen field, that may require them to mortgage their home. After working hard to pay it off, or pay down the mortgage, who wants to re mortgage themselves late in life?


Factor in the progressive tax rates and that circumstance becomes even more pronounced
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Vancouver Island
I think the solution is a major overhaul to the student loan program. First it should be government funded, low interest not a money grab by banks. By low interest I mean just enough to cover administration costs regardless of prime rate.
Entrance to university has to be by qualifications only.
Access to financial aid to be based on the subject studied. Things like medicine , engineering ,business come first. The farther away from producing useful graduates the less access to funding. So if you plan on majoring in french lit don't expect much in the way of government money.
Always remember that there are thousands of special interest groups that want the government to pay for their pet project but there is only one level of taxpayer to pay for it all. And that level of taxpayer is taxxed out.
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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Leiden, the Netherlands
The real problem with the ballooning tuition is that it is essentially going nowhere.

In the same time that tuition has tripled (about 20 years), the salaries of the professors have increased by about one fifth which just keeps up with inflation. Where is the money going? Class sizes have not decreased, so they aren't hiring proportionally more faculty.

The problem is that education is not a free market. People are pressured into getting an education on the premise that they will not be hired otherwise, although they cannot afford it, the government or the bank gives them a loan, and the Universities increase the prices because of the inelastic demand.

The whole thing is out of control in North America. It is only logical to expect the government to regulate such a market. The government however, has largely abandoned its responsibilities here.
 

BruSan

Electoral Member
Jul 5, 2011
416
0
16
Heaven forbid the little darlin's would have received the same opportunities the rest of us from previous generations were gifted with: the constant reminder from our first form high school teachers that "if you ascribe to attend a college or university you should start planning how you're going to pay for it now and put every dime of that after school and weekend job into an interest bearing account". The guidance counsellor of our high school started drumming that into us during grade nine classes.

You know that responsibility concept that weeds out the ones who merely make a decision after grade 12; well, the summer's over, guess I'll go to university now. Ambition, determination, self sacrifice; all foreign words to these little spoiled-brat anarchists.