Ontario Northland gets the axe


Kakato
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

What about after you factor in what it will cost to maintain the same level of service?

They have hangers in most airports so that brings the price down,most small airlines only base out of one town like YK.
Airstrips are easy to build on ice or land.Otter's dont even need a strip,just an esker.
I did supply and logistics for a few years in the arctic so I know it can be done.
 
CDNBear
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Airstrips are easy to build on ice or land.Otter's dont even need a strip,just an esker.

Buildings are easy to build too.

They still cost money to build, and maintain.

How much will it cost to build and maintain them, year round?

How much will multiple trips cost, compared to one trip by rail?

How many airstrips will be able to handle heavy air lifts?

How much will the airlines add to ticket prices to offset the cost of upgrading their fleets to handle intermittent larger payloads?

Do you have any idea of what kind of freight the ONL carries?

People have built up, around, or near to the rail route, for a reason. Because it's their.
 
Kakato
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Buildings are easy to build too.

They still cost money to build, and maintain.

How much will it cost to build and maintain them, year round?

How much will multiple trips cost, compared to one trip by rail?

How many airstrips will be able to handle heavy air lifts?

How much will the airlines add to ticket prices to offset the cost of upgrading their fleets to handle intermittent larger payloads?

Do you have any idea of what kind of freight the ONL carries?

People have built up, around, or near to the rail route, for a reason. Because it's their.

Hercs can pack most anything,thats winter freight,the rest could be flown in any time at probably half the cost.
Railway right of ways are very expensive to maintain,thats why most in Alberta have pulled out the rails many years ago,same with Saskatchewan.We have roads now,they are more efficient IMO.

I have worked in a lot of small towns in Alberta and they all used to have rail service at one time but not now,they still survive but the rails are all gone.the towns are ten miles apart because of the trains back then.
Last edited by Kakato; Mar 23rd, 2012 at 08:54 PM..
 
lone wolf
+1
#34
Apparently they're trying to get away from the money is no object approach. I can't see a sale coming for ONR though. It's not a profitable line. It's a provincial service....
 
CDNBear
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Hercs can pack most anything,thats winter freight,the rest could be flown in any time at probably half the cost.

I know what C 130's can do. But what about airfields that can handle planes that can carry cars, trucks? Anytime?

Like the flag stops can now.

Quote:

Railway right of ways are very expensive to maintain,thats why most in Alberta have pulled out the rails many years ago,same with Saskatchewan.

I'm not arguing the cost of rail. I know it's expensive.

Quote:

We have roads now,they are more efficient IMO.

No kidding. You weren't so hard on rail here (external - login to view).
Last edited by CDNBear; Mar 23rd, 2012 at 09:25 PM..
 
bill barilko
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Do you have any idea of what kind of freight the ONL carries?

In terms of heading north very little of anything-that line is all about hauling resources south always has been-any goods for the few hillbillies left starving in those sh!t smear towns is trucked up.

I remember fruit came in on Tuesday for instance-probably still does for all that.
 
CDNBear
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

In terms of heading north very little of anything-that line is all about hauling resources south always has been-any goods for the few hillbillies left starving in those sh!t smear towns is trucked up.

I remember fruit came in on Tuesday for instance-probably still does for all that.

I see you still like to talk out your ***.
 
petros
#38
Barges.....barges carrying mass raw iron ore from Arctic to South ON via James Bay Bill Gatesway and the privatized line.

Something like that would keep a line running.
 
Kakato
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Barges.....barges carrying mass raw iron ore from Arctic to South ON via James Bay Bill Gatesway and the privatized line.

Something like that would keep a line running.

Their all frozen cock stiff in Hudsons bay by end of september though.
Maybe we need more barges.We got lots of res to move in the next ten years,we have new shipyards being built,lets get growing.Shipyards,refinerys,mines,we are a very rich country,lets do it.
 
petros
#40
71 19′ 24″ n, 79 12′ 38″ w



Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation - Company (external - login to view)
 
Kakato
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

71 19′ 24″ n, 79 12′ 38″ w



Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation - Company (external - login to view)

Were these the same guys that were going to build a rail line to ship the ore?

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvhgI8bta-7aw

 
petros
#42
Why build one when you can buy one?
 
Kakato
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Why build one when you can buy one?

Ahhhh,I c
 
petros
#44
Have you seen the size of today's barge?
 
bill barilko
#45
Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilko
In terms of heading north very little of anything-that line is all about hauling resources south always has been-any goods for the few hillbillies left starving in those sh!t smear towns is trucked up.

I remember fruit came in on Tuesday for instance-probably still does for all that.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I see you still like to talk out your ***.

Note-I am not talking out my *** at all I grew up in one of those towns and at one time all my male relatives worked for the railway as did I-many still reside there and one is a senior executive with ONTC.

Life in the frozen bush is a POFS and people are dirt poor.

I remember in the late 80's my Mother saying 'we don't have wool' when talking about sweaters-meaning that locals were too poor to buy quality clothes so local stores never carried them just polyester-you can probably buy a wool sweater in North Bay but that's it.I'm sure I've posted this here in the past.

Want to educate yourself?

Do a Google Images search on Kirkland Lake or Cochrane or Timmins-the streets look more like rural Bolivia than the developed world.

Even with rocketing metal prices and the reopening of a few mines people's lives are as grim as their options for the future IOW GTFO or see your Kids grow up as poor and ignorant as you are.

Anyway the railway isn't closing it's just changing hands and when it does the few locals who work it will see their paltry paycheques squeezed even more-it was ever thus.
 
lone wolf
+2
#46
You grew up?
 
Kakato
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Have you seen the size of today's barge?

I used to see them all the time frozen in Hudsons bay at the end of September while flying back to the world.
 
damngrumpy
#48
Some government business should be for profit and some should be for service to remote areas.
yes government has a responsibility to serve these communities and should maintain service to
these citizens. it should also be pointed out that some railway operations received payment up
front more than a century ago. For example CP was given property rights for ten miles on either
side of the tracks across the country it served. They sold the land and pocketed the money but
in exchange they were to operate at a subsidized rate. These businesses therefore have an
obligation to service the area. In turn the government made the deal and they too should live up
to their obligation to serve citizens in remote areas
 
CDNBear
+2
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

Note-I am not talking out my *** at all I grew up in one of those towns and at one time all my male relatives worked for the railway as did I-many still reside there and one is a senior executive with ONTC.

I'm sure...

Quote:

Life in the frozen bush is a POFS and people are dirt poor.

To you maybe. Some people think life in the bush is richly rewarding.

Quote:

Want to educate yourself?

Yes, that's why I put little stock in your posts.

Quote:

Do a Google Images search on Kirkland Lake or Cochrane or Timmins-the streets look more like rural Bolivia than the developed world.

Not that you're right. So?

Quote:

Anyway the railway isn't closing it's just changing hands and when it does the few locals who work it will see their paltry paycheques squeezed even more-it was ever thus.

Being heavily subsidized, it will likely cease to be the system it is now.
 
Kakato
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

71 19′ 24″ n, 79 12′ 38″ w



Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation - Company (external - login to view)

Pretty cool,I managed the melledianne camp on your map,helped start the meadowbank mine from scratch and spent last year at george/goose lake. A few years ago you couldnt even find them on a map unless it was highly detailed.
 
Liberalman
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That's BS dude. Memories of Harris.

So many communities depend on the ONL. What a stupid move.

Maybe the federal Conservatives can stop it for health and safety concerns like Air Canada and the feds rule over provinces.
 
gerryh
#52
I'm having a problem understanding why the small airlines don't already offer passenger and freight service if it has such a money making potential.
 
Kakato
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'm having a problem understanding why the small airlines don't already offer passenger and freight service if it has such a money making potential.

Maybe they arent subsidized and cant compete on an open playing field with rail.They focus mainly where there is no roads or rail because then they only have to compete with other airlines and most do work together.
Then again maybe they are subsidized,small airlines need hangers and bases and cant afford one everywhere they fly so they focus on bigger communities and base from there on a day to day schedule.
I dont know the numbers but i'm sure the small airlines arent getting help like this railway is in cash.
 
CDNBear
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Maybe they arent subsidized and cant compete on an open playing field with rail.They focus mainly where there is no roads or rail because then they only have to compete with other airlines and most do work together.
Then again maybe they are subsidized,small airlines need hangers and bases and cant afford one everywhere they fly so they focus on bigger communities and base from there on a day to day schedule.
I dont know the numbers but i'm sure the small airlines arent getting help like this railway is in cash.

Likely because they can't meet the same demands the railway does.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'm having a problem understanding why the small airlines don't already offer passenger and freight service if it has such a money making potential.

Because it can't offer the same service.
 
Liberalman
#55
There is always air ships for cargo http://wwwp.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2011/05/airships-as-climate-solution (external - login to view)



Lockheed Martin's P-791 prototype airship
 
TenPenny
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by KakatoView Post

Maybe they arent subsidized and cant compete on an open playing field with rail.They focus mainly where there is no roads or rail because then they only have to compete with other airlines and most do work together.
Then again maybe they are subsidized,small airlines need hangers and bases and cant afford one everywhere they fly so they focus on bigger communities and base from there on a day to day schedule.
I dont know the numbers but i'm sure the small airlines arent getting help like this railway is in cash.

I'd like your explanation of how a railroad that owns and maintains its own right of way is more subsidized than an airline that uses public airports, or trucks that use public highways.
 
gerryh
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Because it can't offer the same service.


Ya but, ya but, ya but, kakato is saying that they CAN replace the inefficient railroad... isn't that what he was saying?
 
CDNBear
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Ya but, ya but, ya but, kakato is saying that they CAN replace the inefficient railroad... isn't that what he was saying?

Uh huh. Which is why I keep asking him about the flag stops. I remember watching them unload a Suzuki Samurai, off a flatbed rail car, at a flag stop. Using stacks of 2x12's and a whole lot of skill.

Wondering where the hell they were going with it, since I didn't see a road, lol.

It was likely the event that made me interested in 4x4'ing.
 
lone wolf
+1
#59
Most efficient shippers are ship and rail in that order. Not likely a ship can get overland and Hudson Bay isn't open all year. Maybe you can land a Twin Otter on an esker - but anything like an esker between Cochrane and Moosonee has train tracks in the middle and telegraph poles to the side.
 
Kakato
+1
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I know what C 130's can do. But what about airfields that can handle planes that can carry cars, trucks? Anytime?

.

A herc can handle that with a mile long airstrip but space is at a premium and you might get 2 full size pickups on a herc at about half what it costs to buy one so point taken.We used to haul our trucks up in the winter on ice roads,just get an Innuit guide with a skidoo and pay him some big bucks.They usually allways came up on a barge though and when they cant go any farther you offload and either drive or set up a few sloops behind a cat and skid them to where they have to go in a cat train.The Hercs are better used to haul up drills,skidsteers and fuel,110 drums at a time or 33,000 liters in a bladder.
The logistics of anywhere north is a challenge but theres a lot of people in the north that are very good at it and they are very busy resupplying communities and the remote camps that will soon provide jobs for a lot of Innuit.I'm sure if someone asked them to add a new route with the promise of lots of flights it would happen.

I loved doing logistics in the Arctic,once I was buddys with the Nunavut mafia(expediters) it all went smooth,I could get any part or item within one week with only a 25% kablunak tax on said items.

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Most efficient shippers are ship and rail in that order. Not likely a ship can get overland and Hudson Bay isn't open all year. Maybe you can land a Twin Otter on an esker - but anything like an esker between Cochrane and Moosonee has train tracks in the middle and telegraph poles to the side.

I have vids of otters taking off in about 60 feet,singles,but the twins are just as impressive and with tundra tires can land allmost anywhere.
 

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