Medicare debatable treaty right


dumpthemonarchy
#1
Hospitals? Doctors? No. Healthcare is not a treaty right because hospitals and doctors are not mentioned in treaties from the 19th century. No ridiculous extrapolating here folks.

The wonders of the English language. A few words in one era come to mean a complete infrastructure in another era or century that costs endless billions. And there are so many yuppies in Ottawa who can't stand up to their own screaming kids, they ought to learn to stand up for taxpayers. Dentists are already making a billion a year off the poorest, unhealthiest people in Canada, why continue the madness?

Excellent medical care is already available in a country called Canada, they are in places called cities. No race tests are required for treatment.




Medicare debatable treaty right (external - login to view)



Medicare debatable treaty right







By Mark Lemstra, Special to The StarPheonix March 8, 2012




Aboriginal people are more likely to suffer from every disease and disorder that we monitor in comparison to non-aboriginal Canadians. This is regrettable, because the disparity in health outcomes clearly is preventable.

In response, some First Nations leaders advocate that access to health care is a treaty right for Registered Indians and, as such, the quantity and quality of care provided on reserves should be much better. The worry with this advocacy position is what happens if someone looks up what the treaties actually say.

Eleven treaties were signed in Canada. Only one of these - Treaty 6 - mentions health or health care. The wording in Treaty 6 states: "A medicine chest shall be kept at the house of each Indian Agent for the use and benefit of the Indians at the direction of such agent."

Since only one treaty mentions health care, does this mean that all other Registered Indians on reserves in the remaining 10 treaty areas should not have access to health care? What about non-registered Indians? As well, the wording of Treaty 6 is limited. In today's context, a medicine chest could mean anything from a first aid box to prescription medications.

The federal government has done the right thing to date and chosen to interpret the medicine chest clause liberally, and fully reimburse prescription medication costs for First Nations persons on reserves across Canada even if they are not part of Treaty 6. In fact, Ottawa reimburses prescription medication costs for Registered Indians living off-reserve.

That said, some advocate that the medicine chest can be interpreted to mean full medicare coverage. However, there were doctors, surgery, diagnostic services and so on at the time when Treaty 6 was signed. If the treaty intended to include these services, why were these not mentioned?

This brings us to oral promises. The federal government has published orders in council that convey the discussions held between it and Indians prior to signing treaties. Only the discussion on Treaty 8 mentions health care and states:

"We promised that supplies of medicines would be put in the charge of persons selected by the government at different points, and would be distributed free to those of the Indians who might require them. We explained that it would be practically impossible for the government to arrange for regular medical attendance upon Indians so widely scattered over such an extensive territory."

Despite this prior conversation, the actual wording of Treaty 8 specifically describes what 'bounty and benevolence" the Indian people may count upon, and health care is not included.

Given the limited context of the medicine chest - at the discretion of the Indian agent - the right of Registered Indians to receive health care has never been acknowledged by the federal government or decided by the courts.

That said, the case of Kruger et al vs. the Crown (1985) indicates that government actions cannot be unreasonable or create undue hardship for Indians.

With all of these limitations, it is perhaps ironic that many Indian leaders, such as AFN Chief Shawn Atleo, advocate dismantling the Indian Act. At the AFN's recent annual meeting in Winnipeg, Atleo stated that Indians are still fighting for health care promises made in treaties more than a century ago.


Not really. It is legislation within the Indian Act (not treaties) that ensures comprehensive health care coverage. Section 73.1 states the governor in council may make regulations "to prevent, mitigate and control the spread of diseases on reserves, whether or not the diseases are infectious or communicable," and "to provide medical treatment and health services for Indians."

Repealing the Indian Act without a replacement, and reverting to the treaties would be disastrous for First Nations.

Vast health disparities between First Nations and other Canadians have been observed for more than 100 years. Obviously, new ideas need to be proposed and considered. Better health outcomes will not be obtained with more litigation over what century-old treaties might or might not say. That said, aboriginal leaders will not walk away from treaties signed with Canada.

Given that most health services are now provided by provinces, it seems reasonable to discuss signing new treaties to include provincial governments. Given 100 years of failure, it is also imperative that the federal, provincial and aboriginal governments specifically state what services they will provide, and what outcomes they will be held accountable to. At that time, we can abandon the Indian Act.





 
CDNBear
+2
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Hospitals? Doctors? No. Healthcare is not a treaty right because hospitals and doctors are not mentioned in treaties from the 19th century. No ridiculous extrapolating here folks.

You and Mark Lemstra, should read some treaties. "Health", "Wellbeing", "Needs" are mentioned in most.

It wasn't the First nations that made Treaties "living documents". That was the Crown. When it suited their expansionist, resource exploitation agenda.

Are you enjoying the fruits of that exploitation?

Quote:

No race tests are required for treatment.

There's a race test? Lest time I checked, it was based on lineage. Not race.

How the hell did you get a history degree, when you know so little about Canadian history?
Last edited by CDNBear; Mar 13th, 2012 at 08:44 PM..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#3
It's not race, it's culture; it's not race, it's lineage. I don't mind the word games, but why should taxpayers pay for it all? Only the govt keeps stats by race and tells the public to obey the bogus findings. Science does not support race theories, why do govts?
 
gerryh
+1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's not race, it's culture; it's not race, it's lineage. I don't mind the word games, but why should taxpayers pay for it all? Only the govt keeps stats by race and tells the public to obey the bogus findings. Science does not support race theories, why do govts?


Fu ck you're stupid, and I also call bullshyte to you having anything above a grade 10 education.
 
wulfie68
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's not race, it's culture; it's not race, it's lineage. I don't mind the word games, but why should taxpayers pay for it all? Only the govt keeps stats by race and tells the public to obey the bogus findings. Science does not support race theories, why do govts?

I thought healthcare was a right ALL Canadians enjoyed... unless you're saying that because aboriginal people were already here when Canada was formed, they aren't entitled to be called Canadian...?
 
CDNBear
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's not race, it's culture; it's not race, it's lineage. I don't mind the word games, but why should taxpayers pay for it all?

It's not word games. Only morons keep making it about race. Which is likely why you and Jimmy keep getting stuck on it.

Are you enjoying the fruits of the exploitation of land resources, that we traded for those treaties?

Why do you never answer that question?

Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

I thought healthcare was a right ALL Canadians enjoyed... unless you're saying that because aboriginal people were already here when Canada was formed, they aren't entitled to be called Canadian...?

LOL.
 
SLM
+2
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post


How the hell did you get a history degree, when you know so little about Canadian history?

Cereal box tops or the internet. It's about fifty/fifty I figure.
 
dumpthemonarchy
+1
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

I thought healthcare was a right ALL Canadians enjoyed... unless you're saying that because aboriginal people were already here when Canada was formed, they aren't entitled to be called Canadian...?

Sure, aboriginals are entitled to health care like anyone else in the country because they can walk into any hospital and get the service, not trouble at all. Those are the facts. What FNs want is a separate health care system, just for them, paid for by taxpayers. I say no to that.
 
gerryh
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Sure, aboriginals are entitled to health care like anyone else in the country because they can walk into any hospital and get the service, not trouble at all. Those are the facts. What FNs want is a separate health care system, just for them, paid for by taxpayers. I say no to that.


Why don't you describe how that would work.
 
CDNBear
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Sure, aboriginals are entitled to health care like anyone else in the country because they can walk into any hospital and get the service, not trouble at all. Those are the facts. What FNs want is a separate health care system, just for them, paid for by taxpayers. I say no to that.

So do I. But it really is moot. Since that isn't what they're asking for.

Again I ask, how the hell did you get a history degree, when you can't even read a simple, grade 9 level, written article?
 
wulfie68
+2
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

So do I. But it really is moot. Since that isn't what they're asking for.

Again I ask, how the hell did you get a history degree, when you can't even read a simple, grade 9 level, written article?

With his level of reading comprehension, good luck in earning money off him... unless maybe you can sell his @$$?
 
SLM
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

With his level of reading comprehension, good luck in earning money off him... unless maybe you can sell his @$$?

Might get a looney, lol.
 
CDNBear
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

With his level of reading comprehension, good luck in earning money off him... unless maybe you can sell his @$$?

Hence the pimp references, lol.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Why don't you describe how that would work.

Ever been to a doctor or hospital?
 
gerryh
+2
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Ever been to a doctor or hospital?


So you can't describe it?
 
CDNBear
+2
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Ever been to a doctor or hospital?

Oh oh, dumpster realizes he screwed up, yet again, and chooses to take the Jimmy route to removing his foot from his mouth.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

So you can't describe it?

Describe what?

Walk into a hospital, see what happens. Sit outside and watch other people enter first if you prefer. Take video if it makes you feel better.
 
gerryh
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Sure, aboriginals are entitled to health care like anyone else in the country because they can walk into any hospital and get the service, not trouble at all. Those are the facts. What FNs want is a separate health care system, just for them, paid for by taxpayers. I say no to that.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Describe what?

Walk into a hospital, see what happens. Sit outside and watch other people enter first if you prefer. Take video if it makes you feel better.


God Damn you are an idiot.... See the highlighted part? Describe this "separate" health care system that you say First Nations want.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#19
Do you own research and punch in aboriginal health care system in google. Each province has its own system and so does the fed govt. Report back.
 
gerryh
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Do you own research and punch in aboriginal health care system in google. Each province has its own system and so does the fed govt. Report back.


In other words, once again, you can't back up your statements.
 
CDNBear
+2
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Do you own research and punch in aboriginal health care system in google. Each province has its own system and so does the fed govt. Report back.

You idiot!

That's not a separate health care system, First Nations demanded, or wanted.

That's a double/triple dipping bureaucracy, created when the Feds downloaded First Nations services, on the provinces.

I explained this to you long ago, when you first started griping about the 9 Billion a year.

1, The Feds downloaded FN health care administration to the provinces.
2, The provinces then downloaded applicable share to local govt's.
3, Local govt's bill the province.
4, The provinces bills the Feds.
5, Each dept along the way, adds overhead to the bill.
6, FN's asked for better access to health care, not a separate system.

Geezus, you're stupid.
Last edited by CDNBear; Mar 15th, 2012 at 06:09 PM..
 
gerryh
+2
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post


Geezus, you're stupid.


That's a given.
 
CDNBear
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

That's a given.

By the level of stupid he examples, someone else has to be turning the computer on for him.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#24
The fed govt isn't solely concerned with aboriginal health care, MPs are part of it too. Get a brain.
 
CDNBear
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

The fed govt isn't solely concerned with aboriginal health care, MPs are part of it too. Get a brain.

Great retort, after being PWND, yet again.

MP's are First Nations looking for a separate health care system.

Blaming the First nations, for something MP's are doing. Makes you even dumber than I had previously thought.
 
Goober
+3
#26  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Do you own research and punch in aboriginal health care system in google. Each province has its own system and so does the fed govt. Report back.

Still a racist puke. I see this as well as many others see what you are - No changing stupidity is there.
 
L Gilbert
+2
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Sure, aboriginals are entitled to health care like anyone else in the country because they can walk into any hospital and get the service, not trouble at all. Those are the facts. What FNs want is a separate health care system, just for them, paid for by taxpayers. I say no to that.

Yep. Gerry had it right: you're a f'n idiot.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Yep. Gerry had it right: you're a f'n idiot.

Another inadequate answer. They are coming in piles lately.
 
CDNBear
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Another inadequate answer.

That's all your silly claims are worth.

Get used to it.

Quote:

They are coming in piles lately.

Lately? Your posts have been steaming piles for years.

Are you confused as to why you're called dumpster?
Last edited by CDNBear; Mar 16th, 2012 at 06:28 PM..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That's all your silly claims are worth.

Get used to it.

Lately? Your posts have been steaming piles for years.

Thems junk comments. Cheap.
 

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