Canada is too dangerous for Dick Cheney


petros
+1
#121
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Hmmm, I'll take that as a yes then.

I never said they weren't. I just pointed out that they were using evidence, from a reliable ally.

I know that doesn't bode well with the anti American crowd.

Quote:

Hmmm, I'll take that as a yes then.

You're taking it all right. I know you are not stupid enough to believe an entire war hinged on the unconfirmed ramblings of a disgruntled former engineer.

He had it all did he? Locations, quantities, methods of manufacture and all was 100% confirmed by American intelligence prior to invasion.
 
Most helpful post: The members here have rated this post as best reply.
CDNBear
+1
#122
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You're taking it all right. I know you are not stupid enough to believe an entire war hinged on the unconfirmed ramblings of a disgruntled former engineer.

Never said it did.

The Germans believed him, the intel they forwarded to the US, was obviously believed.

Quote:

He had it all did he? Locations, quantities, methods of manufacture and all was 100% confirmed by American intelligence prior to invasion.

He had enough to get the Germans and the Americans all hot and bothered.

I never said the US did the right thing.
 
petros
#123
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Never said it did.

The Germans believed him, the intel they forwarded to the US, was obviously believed.

He had enough to get the Germans and the Americans all hot and bothered.

I never said the US did the right thing.

No he didn't have enough to get anyone "hot and bothered". He was one man who ran ONE facility years prior.

Got any better excuses?
 
CDNBear
#124
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

No he didn't have enough to get anyone "hot and bothered".

LOL...

Quote:

Got any better excuses?

I'd would have had to put forward an excuse, to put forward a better one.
 
petros
#125

GULLIBLE
 
CDNBear
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post


GULLIBLE

So you're saying his testimony wasn't forwarded from the Germans, to the US and used to bolster the start of a war in Iraq?

Interesting.
 
petros
+1
#127
It's Germanys fault the US USED Janabi's bull**** to shore up their bull****? Sounds like bull****.
 
CDNBear
+1
#128
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's Germanys fault the US USED Janabi's bull**** to shore up their bull****? Sounds like bull****.

They most certainly have a share of the blame.

I mean we see the US labeled continuously, for making it all up.

The US obviously had intel, they found credible. Some, which was deemed compelling, supplied by the Germans.

I haven't said it was legit, true or anything to that fact.

I just like pointing out the things the Usual Suspects keep ignoring in their strive for anti American excellence. You can try and reinterpret that anyway you like. I find it funny.
 
petros
+1
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

They most certainly have a share of the blame.

I mean we see the US labeled continuously, for making it all up.

The US obviously had intel, they found credible. Some, which was deemed compelling, supplied by the Germans.

I haven't said it was legit, true or anything to that fact.

I just like pointing out the things the Usual Suspects keep ignoring in their strive for anti American excellence. You can try and reinterpret that anyway you like. I find it funny.

"Our position was always: (Curveball) might be right, but he might not be right. He could be a liar but he could be telling the truth,"
German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer

Germany sent information derived from Alwan to the United States at the CIA's request, Fischer said. However, Berlin's intelligence chief at the time also sent a letter to the U.S. intelligence agency addressing potential issues with the source, he added (Helen Pidd, London Guardian I (external - login to view), Feb. 17).
 
Tonington
+2
#130
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

The US obviously had intel, they found credible. Some, which was deemed compelling, supplied by the Germans.

I don't think the intelligence community was convinced, but that doesn't matter when politicians get involved.
As it turned out, Powell was not told that one of the sources for the information — “Curveball" — had been flagged by the Defense Intelligence Agency as suspect and untrustworthy.
...
Tyler Drumheller, the former head of the CIA in Europe, said Curveball's admission made him feel better about himself.

Drumheller, who says he warned his superiors at the CIA before the 2003 invasion that Curveball might be a liar, said the confession would be a final wake-up call for those who continue to insist there had been weapons of mass destruction.

'Curveball': I lied about WMD to hasten Iraq war - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - msnbc.com (external - login to view)
 
CDNBear
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

"Our position was always: (Curveball) might be right, but he might not be right. He could be a liar but he could be telling the truth,"
German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer

Germany sent information derived from Alwan to the United States at the CIA's request, Fischer said. However, Berlin's intelligence chief at the time also sent a letter to the U.S. intelligence agency addressing potential issues with the source, he added (Helen Pidd, London Guardian I (external - login to view), Feb. 17).

LOL...

Your selective captioning is funny.

Speaking of gullible. So who do we believe?

Tenet or Fischer?

I can see why in hindsight, both would lie through their eye teeth.
 
petros
#132
The German caveat "we think he might be bull****ting" says plenty about what was "deemed compelling" by CIA/DIA.

Who ran with it anyway? Germany or America?
 
CDNBear
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

I don't think the intelligence community was convinced, but that doesn't matter when politicians get involved.

No doubt. But that doesn't negate the fact that the Germans were supplying intel, that bolstered the war hawks.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

The German caveat "we think he might be bull****ting" says plenty about what was "deemed compelling" by CIA/DIA.

Like I said, claims made in hindsight, really aren't all that convincing.

Quote:

Who ran with it anyway? Germany or America?

Both, the Germans set to confirm it. The US used it to bolster their position on a war with Iraq.
Last edited by CDNBear; Mar 18th, 2012 at 09:08 AM..
 
petros
+1
#134
Let's get this right. Germans ran to US going "OMG OMG they have WMDs here is the proof" or US REQUESTED info the Germans said "just might be bull****" and ran with it?
 
Liberalman
#135
Quote: Originally Posted by BruSanView Post

[/FONT]

Not going to buy into your red agaisnt blue crap! I just don't differentiate them to the same extent as you apparently need to.

Please re-read my post and pay particular attention to the part where I refer to the "government of the day" with no specific party mentioned.

I'm sorry but I don't see one iota of difference between ANY of them and have complete faith that were it in the interests of a Liberal government to kiss *** at any particular time they'd grab their ankles just as quickly as a Conservative, NDP or Bloc for that matter!

Any one of them, from Bobby Rae to the useless maroon running the NDP at this moment would sell their soul and yours if it advanced their little ego-driven power trip. NONE of these parties maintains a party platform with any integrity in todays clusterflop that passes for Canadian politics.



I can see what you are saying but for me I got to identify the party just so that when I am in the voting booth I don’t mistakenly vote the pr!cks back into office that gave me the most agro.

Throughout my voting life I went for the Liberals mostly and the Progressive Conservatives when John Turner took over but the NDP never struck me as a party that would ever form the federal government.

Next week we will see whom the NDP will elect as leader and later the Liberals will do the same.

Right now we have an iron fisted Conservative federal government and yes I have to identify the party so bare with me, that the inner circle runs the party and makes sure that the Prime Minister stays in line and I say that because of what happened Stockwell Day who went off party line or gave his opinion too often and got kicked out of the leadership position.
.
.


 
CDNBear
+1
#136
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Let's get this right. Germans ran to US going "OMG OMG they have WMDs here is the proof" or US REQUESTED info the Germans said "just might be bull****" and ran with it?

I was already aware of the fact that you don't read the links you post.
 
petros
#137
It's your link that says the US REQUESTED info from Germany and not Germany going to he US with information.

Comprhension issues?
 
CDNBear
#138
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's your link that says the US REQUESTED info from Germany and not Germany going to he US with information.

LOL, I posted a link to a Google search. You should read the link you selectively quoted, and posted.

Quote:

Comprhension issues?

Why are you asking me, they're your issues.
 
petros
#139
My link? This one? Curveball doubts were shared with CIA, says ex-German foreign minister | World news | guardian.co.uk (external - login to view)

Quote:

Fischer said Germany was put in a "very difficult position" when the CIA asked whether they could "have" Curveball, or at least use his evidence to justify a war in Iraq. Germany's official position was that it would not join the coalition of the willing. Fischer himself famously told Donald Rumsfeld in February 2003 that he was "not convinced" about the case for war.

"On the one hand we didn't want to withhold from the US any bit of relevant information we had about possible WMD in Iraq. On the other hand, we did not want to take part in any propagandistic exploitation of material, which was far from proven, to justify a war," Fischer writes in his new autobiography, I Am Not Convinced.

You stil believe Germany ran to the US with Janabi's tall tales and this is what the US based their invasion on?
 
CDNBear
#140
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

My link? This one? Curveball doubts were shared with CIA, says ex-German foreign minister | World news | guardian.co.uk (external - login to view)

You stil believe Germany ran to the US with Janabi's tall tales and this is what the US based their invasion on?

LOL, your comprehension issues are impeding your judgment dude.

Read what you just posted again...

Oh forget it, let me point out the parts that you seem to be having difficulty with...
Quote:

Fischer said Germany was put in a "very difficult position" when the CIA asked whether they could "have" Curveball, or at least use his evidence to justify a war in Iraq. Germany's official position was that it would not join the coalition of the willing. Fischer himself famously told Donald Rumsfeld in February 2003 that he was "not convinced" about the case for war.

Those two statements, are separated by a coma. How did the US know the Germans had "Curveball", and evidence they could use?

Try using deductive reasoning here. It will really help you along.
 
petros
+1
#141
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

LOL, your comprehension issues are impeding your judgment dude.

Read what you just posted again...

Oh forget it, let me point out the parts that you seem to be having difficulty with...
Those two statements, are separated by a coma. How did the US know the Germans had "Curveball", and evidence they could use?

Try using deductive reasoning here. It will really help you along.

Deductive reasoning ..... is that how the US decided the info requested from Germany was legit even after being warned it was potentially bull****?

Germany never went running to the US with info to justify the war did they?
 
CDNBear
#142
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Deductive reasoning ..... is that how the US decided the info requested from Germany was legit even after being warned it was potentially bull****?

Germany never went running to the US with info to justify the war did they?

If you say so.
 
petros
+1
#143
Germany never went running to the US with info to justify the war did they? Did they warn the US that that the information wasn't reliable? Did Germany go before the UN and make the case that this information was legit and justifies an invasion? Did the US use the information they knew was potentially bull**** as justification? How can you say Germany provided the intel to justify the war when they stated repeatedly that it wasn't solid intel?
 
CDNBear
+1
#144
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Germany never went running to the US with info to justify the war did they?

Yes.

Quote:

Did they warm the US that that the information wasn't reliable?

Maybe. But you would have to take the word of Fischer over Tenet.

Quote:

Did Germany go before the UN and make the case that this information was legit and justifies an invasion?

Even if it was, I doubt they would have, given the EU oil for food program with Iraq.

Quote:

Did the US use the information they knew was potentially bull**** as justification?

Maybe.

Quote:

How can you say Germany provided the intel to justify the war when they stated repeatedly that it wasn't solid intel?

I didn't say that they provided the intel to justify the war. I said they provided some of the intel, the US used to justify the war. And there is no clear proof Germany warned the US that it might be false.

Wow, that was fast, we already at the point where you start making up stuff I didn't say. My time flies.
 
petros
+1
#145
I

Quote:

I've only said this to you, at least a dozen times.

It was the Germans.

The US was following intel, from a credible source, and an ally.

An ally who didn't join the collation of the willing because the intel was garbage?
 
CDNBear
#146
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You look funny on that bike.

Quote:

An ally who didn't join the collation of the willing because the intel was garbage?

You cognitive skills are really being taxed out this morning aren't they.
 
petros
#147
Quote:

"We decided, therefore, that we would do our duty by sending the Americans all the information we had, together with our assessment that that information came from a deserter and that we had not verified or substantiated it ourselves, and that it could be completely wrong."

What did they mean by "not verified or substantiated"?

Your Germany is to blame for the bad intel schtick isn't faring so well.
 
CDNBear
+2
#148
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

What did they mean by "not verified or substantiated"?

A claim refuted by Tenet.

How many times do I have to ask, who do we believe?

You make my job of pointing out the absurdity in the usual anti Americanism, easy.

You're willing to believe the Germans claims, but not Tenet's.

Both are just as likely to make false claims in hindsight.

Quote:

You Germany is to blame for the bad intel schtick isn't faring so well.

Not for the usual anti American's, it isn't. It never does. It interferes with their ideologies.

While in reality, you've proven my point succinctly, while completely dismissing their culpability, based solely on the German's claims. Against the US's.

Carry on.
 
petros
#149
 
CDNBear
#150
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Good of you to admit that. Now you should move to the next step.
 

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