U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians


lone wolf
+1
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post


for those that claim that this is but one incident............should also adopt the same attitude when US troops are killed by the people defending their own country.

I know facts don't really matter to a hate-fuelled rant but if you'd care to read back (which I know you won't because they're not really facts you're interested in) you might even read where I have often likened foreign policy to date rape. Anyhow, enjoy your frustration. It might be the only piece you get.
 
Ocean Breeze
-1
#62
Quote:

Burning babies—yes, it has come to this.

Following routine bombings of wedding parties, hundreds killed in unchecked “night raids” by US Special Forces, the murders by the scandalous “kill team” in 2010, and, this year, the digitally recorded urination onto dead Afghans by Americans in uniform—not to mention the Koran burnings last month—it’s clear that there’s no hope of success for the “mission.” Whatever that is.

The massacre of sixteen Afghans by a US soldier on Sunday, including many children, is certain to inflame anti-occupation feeling in Afghanistan, send recruits into the Taliban and harden the opposition to a long-term treaty with the United States among politic

* Afghanistan's Haditha: An Atrocity to End the War****** : Information Clearing House (external - login to view)
 
lone wolf
#63
Where are the tree-huggers in forest fire season?
 
Ocean Breeze
-2
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

A lot of people who have taken part in genocide have gone on to lead fairly normal lives afterwards. Its amazing what a person can do while sane.

Ted Bundy was also quite sane. The judge who sentenced him to death said it was unfortunate as Bundy had a great mind.

We didn't get to the top of the food chain by being nice.


wow.........you are assuming that "we" are top of some food chain and that getting there is to be done anyhow one can.......regardless of the law, humanitarian or legal.

NOT something to brag about. Almost sounds like you support genocide. Little wonder the world is in such a mess. What would you be prepared to do and support to maintain your exhalted position of "top of the food chain"???
 
DaSleeper
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Where are the tree-huggers in forest fire season?

She's on a roll....

Ihat reminds me I gotta get me some eveready batteries
 
L Gilbert
+1 / -1
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

She's on a roll....

Ihat reminds me I gotta get me some eveready batteries

Hunting wabbits heheheheheh
 
Ocean Breeze
-1
#67
Quote:

Afghans Demand Public Trial After Massacre

Monday, 12th March 2012 00:36

The Afghan parliament has demanded the public trial of a US soldier who allegedly killed 16 civilians as the Taliban vowed to take revenge for the deaths.

Afghans Demand Public Trial After Massacre | LBC (external - login to view)


What was it that bush said about "winning the hearts and minds "???? This new atrocity is doing just that. (sarcasm alert)
 
WLDB
+1
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

wow.........you are assuming that "we" are top of some food chain and that getting there is to be done anyhow one can.......regardless of the law, humanitarian or legal.

NOT something to brag about. Almost sounds like you support genocide. Little wonder the world is in such a mess. What would you be prepared to do and support to maintain your exhalted position of "top of the food chain"???


I'm not bragging. Hell, I'm a vegetarian.

I'm just saying don't give people a way out by saying "oh they just snapped and went insane" when its possible for people to commit mass murder while perfectly sane and not give it a second thought.
 
Ocean Breeze
#69
Quote:

Who Are the ‘Terrorists’?
The pattern of American atrocities in wartime

Who Are the ‘Terrorists’? by Justin Raimondo -- Antiwar.com (external - login to view)


well appointed article with many truths in it. Time to look at ourselves as opposed to always pointing fingers and avoiding responsibility for the wests actions.

each elective war of choice is the highest form of terrorism........That is a fact. All the individual "incidents " that occur are acts of terrorism. This massacre is the ultimate form of terrorism. Terrorism does not discriminate between the ill, the young, the babies, the parents ......it destroys without prejudice.

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

I'm not bragging. Hell, I'm a vegetarian.

I'm just saying don't give people a way out by saying "oh they just snapped and went insane" when its possible for people to commit mass murder while perfectly sane and not give it a second thought.

exactly. Well said.
 
L Gilbert
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

I'm not bragging. Hell, I'm a vegetarian.

I'm just saying don't give people a way out by saying "oh they just snapped and went insane" when its possible for people to commit mass murder while perfectly sane and not give it a second thought.

Yep. I don't think the guy was off his nut. I think he was just drunk.
 
earth_as_one
+1
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

...And you do quite repetitively and endlessly, as if we haven't all read your mainly one-sided posts.

That's it. Dodge the topic of this thread by leading in to a rampage of posts dragging up issues of even remotely related topics.

I'm sorry LG, but I think the Haditha case is related. Compare the basic facts:

"US soldiers go on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"
vs
"US soldier goes on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"

Are you sure you can't see any similarities with the Haditha case?

If you followed the links I provided, you would see the Haditha massacre MO was nearly identical. Those soldiers got away with murdering a group of unarmed civilains, mostly women and children and the US public never demanded justice in that case. I predict the US public will not demand justice in this case either. I predict these Afghan victims will get the same level of justice as the victims of the Haditha massacre.

If the Americans were serious about justice, they'd let the Afghan criminal justice system handle this case. Since the crime was committed while the soldier was off duty and AWOL, technically he was acting as a civilian, not as a soldier. Therefore he should be tried in a civilian court in Afghanistan. But we all know that won't happen. Steps have already been taken to protect the US soldier and deny justice. This murderer will never be held responsible for their crime.

U.S. withholds name of soldier in civilian massacre, rebuffs call for Afghan trial
...Asked if the soldier would be turned over to Afghanistan for prosecution, Little said the U.S. military has “very strong” means to address such crimes. ...
Afghanistan shooting: U.S. withholds soldier's name, rebuffs call for Afghan trial | News | National Post

BS, The Haditha case and many other similar cases prove American soldiers can murder Iraqi/Afghan civilians with impunity.

I predict this case will be heard by a sympathetic military court in the US, far away from the scene of the crime. The victims and their families will never get a chance to face this murderer or address the court. They won't be allowed to file victim impact statements. Their demands for justice will be ignored. In other words, this case will be handled the same way as the Haditha massacre and the results will be similar.

The most likely outcome will be a "Not Guilty" by reason of insanity verdict. Most likely this murderer will spend a few months in a mental institution for veterans where he will be treated with dignity and respect. As soon as this story drops off the public radar, he will be set free. He will be honorably discharged and receive a veteran disability pension.

BTW, I have nothing against US soldiers who carry out legal orders to serve and protect their country. So don't try to distort my posts. I am against people who commit war crimes and commit crimes against humanity. Most (nearly all) US soldiers have never committed a war crime or a crime against humanity.
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#72
So I am thinking those of you making jokes about the event need your heads examined or possibly you heads in a vice. Both are fine by me until you realize how unfunny and ignorant you are.

I don't even know where to start regarding the actual event. I don't think a trial in either country is money well spent. How about turning him over to the remaining families of the murdered? I'm pretty sure justice would be done...hopefully very slowly.

I do have to agree that it is time for Dick & Jane, I mean George, and their cohorts to be held responsible for the illegal invasion of 2 sovereign nations under false pretenses and for all the deaths that have ensued from the actions. I would suggest something similar to Nurenburg with Cheney, Bush, and a couple of others hanging publicly at the end. This would do much more for US foreign relations than decades of diplomacy at this point in history.

So back to the actual topic. This is plain old mass murder and needs to be treated as such. He should be turned over to the Afghanis with America throwing their hands up showing they do not accept this behavior or support anyone that does it in any way.
 
Ocean Breeze
+1 / -1
#73
Seems there is a lot more of this drunken behavior than is desirable. Those that killed that other family and raped the young girl were also "drunk"

those that decided to have a pizzing contest over the dead bodie s were "just drunk"

those that dismembered bodies for body parts and souveniers were "just drunk"

Those that massacred a wedding party......must have also been "just drunk".

Those that made a video talking about that family massacre and rape and laughing about it......were drinking and "just drunk"

How is this the acceptable standard for troop conduct??

It is NOT A ONE OFF...........it is pernicious , it is malignant , and these are only the ones the media reports. One can safely assume that there are many more that go unreported.

Yes, I and a lot of other humanitarian oriented people are incensed and get incensed each time an atrocity is reported. Be it the US troops acting overtly destructive or the UK ones , or the ???ones. It matters none who does it anymore......it is to be condemend for what it is. The difference is that the invader has shown its ugly side many times over. The afghans defend themselves however they can..........and are at a disadvantage from the onset due to the massive military machine they are up against. And yet......they manage to hold their own.

Even after this.......Obama is immovable and staying on his so called time table.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

So I am thinking those of you making jokes about the event need your heads examined or possibly you heads in a vice. Both are fine by me until you realize how unfunny and ignorant you are.

I don't even know where to start regarding the actual event. I don't think a trial in either country is money well spent. How about turning him over to the remaining families of the murdered? I'm pretty sure justice would be done...hopefully very slowly.

I do have to agree that it is time for Dick & Jane, I mean George, and their cohorts to be held responsible for the illegal invasion of 2 sovereign nations under false pretenses and for all the deaths that have ensued from the actions. I would suggest something similar to Nurenburg with Cheney, Bush, and a couple of others hanging publicly at the end. This would do much more for US foreign relations than decades of diplomacy at this point in history.

So back to the actual topic. This is plain old mass murder and needs to be treated as such. He should be turned over to the Afghanis with America throwing their hands up showing they do not accept this behavior or support anyone that does it in any way.


BRAVO...........a voice of REASON. Those that joke about this are of the same ilk as the soldier who massacred so coldly.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I'm sorry LG, but I think the Haditha case is related. Compare the basic facts:

"US soldiers go on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"
vs
"US soldier goes on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"

Are you sure you can't see any similarities with the Haditha case?

If you followed the links I provided, you would see the Haditha massacre MO was nearly identical. Those soldiers got away with murdering a group of unarmed civilains, mostly women and children and the US public never demanded justice in that case. I predict the US public will not demand justice in this case either. I predict these Afghan victims will get the same level of justice as the victims of the Haditha massacre.

If the Americans were serious about justice, they'd let the Afghan criminal justice system handle this case. Since the crime was committed while the soldier was off duty and AWOL, technically he was acting as a civilian, not as a soldier. Therefore he should be tried in a civilian court in Afghanistan. But we all know that won't happen. Steps have already been taken to protect the US soldier and deny justice. This murderer will never be held responsible for their crime.

U.S. withholds name of soldier in civilian massacre, rebuffs call for Afghan trial
...Asked if the soldier would be turned over to Afghanistan for prosecution, Little said the U.S. military has “very strong” means to address such crimes. ...
Afghanistan shooting: U.S. withholds soldier's name, rebuffs call for Afghan trial | News | National Post

BS, The Haditha case and many other similar cases prove American soldiers can murder Iraqi/Afghan civilians with impunity.

I predict this case will be heard by a sympathetic military court in the US, far away from the scene of the crime. The victims and their families will never get a chance to face this murderer or address the court. They won't be allowed to file victim impact statements. Their demands for justice will be ignored. In other words, this case will be handled the same way as the Haditha massacre and the results will be similar.

The most likely outcome will be a "Not Guilty" by reason of insanity verdict. Most likely this murderer will spend a few months in a mental institution for veterans where he will be treated with dignity and respect. As soon as this story drops off the public radar, he will be set free. He will be honorably discharged and receive a veteran disability pension.

BTW, I have nothing against US soldiers who carry out legal orders to serve and protect their country. So don't try to distort my posts. I am against people who commit war crimes and commit crimes against humanity. Most (nearly all) US soldiers have never committed a war crime or a crime against humanity.


BRAVO............another voice of rationality.
 
earth_as_one
+1
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Don't be an idiot. The guy is deservedly going away for life and you can bet on that.

How much would you like to wager?

I bet this guy will be well treated, face a sham trial, be declared "Not Guilty" by reason of insanity and then released a few months later ( a year at the most), when the MSM has moved on to another distraction.
 
Ocean Breeze
+1 / -1
#75
Quote:

American soldiers continue to commit atrocities in Afghanistan and Iraq

American soldiers continue to commit atrocities in Afghanistan and Iraq | Dailycensored.com (external - login to view)


..and that does not begin to cover all of them.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#76
As Ron points out this story has a lot of holes in it. First of all there are a number of conflicting
versions of what happened. We don't know what set this soldier or soldiers off that they would
commit a crime of this magnitude. Oh I know the burning of the book and so on that is not to be
considered here I wouldn't think something else happened that we don't know about yet. No I
am not saying there is a valid excuse for murder of innocent people I am wondering what lit the
spark here.
For years there was talk of pipelines running across Afghanistan from trunk lines in the Stans
to the north that did have oil and across Pakistan to the sea. A nasty little conflict with the Taliban
put that on hold.
Remember wars must indeed be fought everywhere in the world to make the world safe for tourists.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I'm sorry LG, but I think the Haditha case is related.

The same dude did both?
Quote:

Compare the basic facts:

"US soldiers go on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"
vs
"US soldier goes on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"

Are you sure you can't see any similarities with the Haditha case?

The way you put it, yep. But the Haditha case isn't news now. This case is. The news topic is about the Afghan murders of 9 kids and 6 others perped by this dude.

Quote:

If you followed the links I provided, you would see the Haditha massacre MO was nearly identical. Those soldiers got away with murdering a group of unarmed civilains, mostly women and children and the US public never demanded justice in that case. I predict the US public will not demand justice in this case either. I predict these Afghan victims will get the same level of justice as the victims of the Haditha massacre.
If the Americans were serious about justice, they'd let the Afghan criminal justice system handle this case. Since the crime was committed while the soldier was off duty and AWOL, technically he was acting as a civilian, not as a soldier. Therefore he should be tried in a civilian court in Afghanistan. But we all know that won't happen. Steps have already been taken to protect the US soldier and deny justice. This murderer will never be held responsible for their crime.
U.S. withholds name of soldier in civilian massacre, rebuffs call for Afghan trial
...Asked if the soldier would be turned over to Afghanistan for prosecution, Little said the U.S. military has “very strong” means to address such crimes. ...
Afghanistan shooting: U.S. withholds soldier's name, rebuffs call for Afghan trial | News | National...

Quote has been trimmed
Yep. So? I see close similarities but no relation. Any relationship will show up when the matter is being decided.

Quote:

I predict this case will be heard by a sympathetic military court in the US, far away from the scene of the crime. The victims and their families will never get a chance to face this murderer or address the court. They won't be allowed to file victim impact statements. Their demands for justice will be ignored. In other words, this case will be handled the same way as the Haditha massacre and the results will be similar.

The most likely outcome will be a "Not Guilty" by reason of insanity verdict. Most likely this murderer will spend a few months in a mental institution for veterans where he will be treated with dignity and respect. As soon as this story drops off the public radar, he will be set free. He will be honorably discharged and receive a veteran disability pension.

There's always a possibility of the guy not getting off lightly.

Quote:

BTW, I have nothing against US soldiers who carry out legal orders to serve and protect their country. So don't try to distort my posts. I am against people who commit war crimes and commit crimes against humanity. Most (nearly all) US soldiers have never committed a war crime or a crime against humanity.

I wasn't distorting anything. I have seen you take a thread and turn it into a Pallie vs. Izzy argument when the thread had nothing to do with the Pallies and Izzies, though. You tried that in the last thread about Iran that I saw just a couple weeks ago. Also saw you turn threads into US bashing arguments. Which is what I forecasted here. My apologies if I was wrong.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

How about turning him over to the remaining families of the murdered?

I'm fine with that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

Seems there is a lot more of this drunken behavior than is desirable. Those that killed that other family and raped the young girl were also "drunk"

those that decided to have a pizzing contest over the dead bodie s were "just drunk"

those that dismembered bodies for body parts and souveniers were "just drunk"

Those that massacred a wedding party......must have also been "just drunk".

Those that made a video talking about that family massacre and rape and laughing about it......were drinking and "just drunk"

How is this the acceptable standard for troop conduct??

Who said anything about it being acceptable. My point was that I don't think the guy went nuts, just got drunk. What are you smoking?

Quote:

BRAVO...........a voice of REASON. Those that joke about this are of the same ilk as the soldier who massacred so coldly.

And I think someone who confuses a joke about looking for Energizer batteries with joking about a tragedy needs their head examined.
 
lone wolf
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I'm sorry LG, but I think the Haditha case is related. Compare the basic facts:

"US soldiers go on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"
vs
"US soldier goes on a murderous rampage killing unarmed civilians"

Are you sure you can't see any similarities with the Haditha case?

You lie and I'll swear to it goes on in almost any endeavor involving more than two human beings. It's who tells the best story that wins.
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

You lie and I'll swear to it goes on in almost any endeavor involving more than two human beings. It's who tells the best story that wins.

We all know there is 3 sides to every story....my side, your side,and the truth!
 
Ocean Breeze
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

We all know there is 3 sides to every story....my side, your side,and the truth!

\


indeed. In a nutshell. (and the side that gets the least attention or dismissed is the TRUTH as few want to hear it)

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

How much would you like to wager?

I bet this guy will be well treated, face a sham trial, be declared "Not Guilty" by reason of insanity and then released a few months later ( a year at the most), when the MSM has moved on to another distraction.

...we should all check back to this topic a few years from now........
 
gopher
+1
#81
Quote:

If the facts dictate, it should be tried in an Afghan court.

Agree 100%. This was not an act of war but of murder. Therefore, the alleged attacker should be before an Afghan court.
 
Ocean Breeze
-2
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

Agree 100%. This was not an act of war but of murder. Therefore, the alleged attacker should be before an Afghan court.

exactly........and the crime was committed on Afghan soil.

Something else to think about: Given that the US has established precidence in sending a kill / assassination team to kill OBL ...and not even in Afghanistan.(let alone on US soil and without even presenting solid evidence of his crime)........, it stands to form that the Afghans could send a kill team of their own and assassinate the criminal that committed this atrocity. And they would be perfectly entitled to do so now.

Does the USG ever THINK about what it does and the ramifications each action has and could have??

The Afghans are justifiably enraged.

Seems that the camp this killer was from has a very nasty history of misconduct , and some of the atrocities are being listed on CNN news (TV). Many of the troops from this camp have committed suicide.

Interesting how the media over plays gossip stories and avoids real hard news like above that could influence the decision makers aka warmongers.

How many more atrocities do they have to committ before the US gets it?? It just cannot learn from its mistakes. and keeps repeating them over and over .......and then tries to minimize them under the cover of war is nasty business. So , if they KNOW that.....why are they so gung ho to start them. ???

Has this protracted mess made a dent in the terrorist issue?? Or has it increased the anger at the US to enhance the probability of more terrorism. A vicious cycle is in place now.....IS the thirst for revenge been satiated by these wars and mass killings?? It is more likely that it has backfired big time.
 
earth_as_one
+1
#83
If that was true, then the story would have broke as:

"16 militants killed during raid"
....Cache of weapons discovered and safely destroyed. Soldier's actions prevents jihadist suicide attacks

Then the person responsible would have been decorated for bravery. That's normally the way the US reports US soldiers going on a rampage murdering innocent civilians. Since this came out as a murder, I suspect the other soldiers feel this guy crossed a line of some sort. Otherwise they would have covered his ***.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

The same dude did both? The way you put it, yep. But the Haditha case isn't news now. This case is. The news topic is about the Afghan murders of 9 kids and 6 others perped by this dude....

This case won't be news either in a very short time. Its already dropping off the media radar. I give it 2 more days and then that's it. This event will be forgotten just like Haditha.

This soldier will not be held accountable for his crime. He will get a light slap on the wrist, just like the soldiers who murdered a toddler, 7 children, 3 women, a 76 year old in a wheel chair and 12 others in Haditha.
 
captain morgan
-1
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

Agree 100%. This was not an act of war but of murder. Therefore, the alleged attacker should be before an Afghan court.

Too bad that Omar Khadr wasn't held to that same standard
 
Cliffy
+3
#85
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Too bad that Omar Khadr wasn't held to that same standard

Khadr was defending himself while under attack. There is no comparison to this act of brutality. Your comment is just a limp dick attempt at deflecting blame.
 
captain morgan
#86
I see.... So, only your perspective counts here, eh and that is the final word.

How quaint.
 
Cliffy
+2
#87
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I see.... So, only your perspective counts here, eh and that is the final word.

How quaint.

What is quaint is this response. If I didn't think you had a right to your opinion I would have told you to STFU. Not that I could ever comprehend how your mind twists things around to come up with such silly responses, but I'm sure Freud would have a field day inside your head.
 
captain morgan
+1
#88
Yeah, sure Cliffy.

Let me ask you a question on the Khadr thing... Exactly what was this Canadian boy defending in Afghanistan?
 
EagleSmack
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

Agree 100%. This was not an act of war but of murder. Therefore, the alleged attacker should be before an Afghan court.

Are you against capital punishment?
 
Goober
+2
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Yeah, sure Cliffy.

Let me ask you a question on the Khadr thing... Exactly what was this Canadian boy defending in Afghanistan?

Not sure if this came up - US troops burned the Koran in error - Lots of people killed.

US Soldier kills 16 - none killed so far.

It is clear what is more important and valued in that society.
 
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