U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians


Vanni Fucci
+1
#541
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

As details emerged over the past few days about Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, the once admirable soldier accused of massacring Afghan civilians, the horrific crime became even more unfathomable. Some have suggested that PTSD, or the traumatic brain injury he suffered a couple years ago, might have caused him to snap. But Elspeth Ritchie, the Army's former top psychiatrist, thinks there must be more to it.
Ritchie, who left her Army post a couple years ago and is now the chief clinical officer for the District of Columbia's mental health department, says PTSD is associated with "hypervigilance, numbing, flashbacks"--but not the "kind of violence Bales that allegedly committed." Similarly, she says TBI commonly causes nausea and dizziness, but not an impulse to massacre women and children.

CDNBear says that's inadmissible...
 
CDNBear
#542
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

CDNBear says that's inadmissible...

I did?

Oh, you're one of those people that makes things up, when your argument falls apart.

Noted.
 
Vanni Fucci
+1
#543
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Good call, I was starting to feel embarrassed for you. Again.

You shouldn't...you're looking like quite the *******, so keep it up sister!
 
Goober
#544
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

CDNBear says that's inadmissible...

All that Dr has is an opinion - No more no less -
 
Vanni Fucci
+1
#545
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I did?

Oh, you're one of those people that makes things up, when your argument falls apart.

Noted.


Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I think I'll take clinical data over a cherry picked interview in the Seatle Weekly blog thanks.

Umm...yeah..

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

All that Dr has is an opinion - No more no less -

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...
 
Goober
#546
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

Umm...yeah..



Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

All she is doing is diagnosis based upon what she has heard - Facts are different - same as what you are doing.

Ffn opinion - Good way to judge a man- perhaps we could incorporate that into our Justice System - Case goes to social media - and they vote. Really.
 
Vanni Fucci
+1
#547
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

But you seemed so adamant about not putting down the ill in the other thread.

...and I stand by that, but it has not been proven that this Staff Sgt Robert Bales committed his crimes due to mental illness...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Even by your own link, it's looking like he may very well have been mentally ill.

...and you call me dishonest??

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I guess you gave up trying to pedal your nonsense, since you ignored the rest of my post.

Haven't ignored anything...probably more bull**** though...

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Ffn opinion - Good way to judge a man- perhaps we could incorporate that into our Justice System - Case goes to social media - and they vote. Really.

I haven't judged him you ****tard!

That's my whole point...others here are too quick to say he was mentally ill when he killed those people...that hasn't been proven and until the facts of the case come out and both sides are heard, there is no basis upon which he can be judged...so stop thinking you know what the **** I'm saying and ask if you can't keep up...
 
CDNBear
#548
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

...and I stand by that, but it has not been proven that this Staff Sgt Robert Bales committed his crimes due to mental illness...

True, but that's not the point of this exercise, or what you have proven to me.

Quote:

...and you call me dishonest??

Yes I do.

Are you saying your article doesn't say that he may be mentally ill?

Quote:

Haven't ignored anything...probably more bull**** though...

So you ignored it, lol.

Keep confirming my observations. It makes me laugh.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

You shouldn't...you're looking like quite the *******, so keep it up sister!

Of course I look like an ******* to you, (that's capitalized by the way, I do have a Doctorate in Assholology and all), I just PWND you, a couple times.

Intellectually dishonest people, think anyone that does that, is an *******.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

Umm...yeah..

So you're saying I should just ignore clinical data, for a couple claims in a blog?

Are you serious?

Quote:

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

It isn't Goobs, or my opinion. It's clinical data.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

so stop thinking you know what the **** I'm saying and ask if you can't keep up...

Advice you should heed.
 
Vanni Fucci
+1
#549
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

True, but that's not the point of this exercise, or what you have proven to me.

I was supposed to be proving something to you?

You asked for my opinion and I gave it, now I'm defending that opinion from your stupid attacks...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Yes I do.

Are you saying your article doesn't say that he may be mentally ill?

No, never said that, what I said was that he has not been diagnosed with mental illness consistent with a valid defense for his crimes...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Of course I look like an ******* to you, (that's capitalized by the way, I do have a Doctorate in Assholology and all), I just PWND you, a couple times.

You really need to get back to your WOW and ask someone what PWN really means...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

It isn't Goobs, or my opinion. It's clinical data.

So clinical data has verified that he is not culpable for his crimes because of PTSD, Alcoholism, Depression and TBI?

No I did not see any evidence of that from any of the links that you provided...

Thanks for coming out though...
 
CDNBear
+1
#550
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

I was supposed to be proving something to you?

Yes. And you did so nicely, thanks.

Quote:

You asked for my opinion and I gave it, now I'm defending that opinion from your stupid attacks...

Your erroneous opinion isn't what's under attack.

Quote:

No, never said that, what I said was that he has not been diagnosed with mental illness consistent with a valid defense for his crimes...

I'm talking about what your article said, not what you said.

Quote:

You really need to get back to your WOW and ask someone what PWN really means...

I obviously know what it means, I just PWND you a couple times.

What's WOW?

Quote:

So clinical data has verified that he is not culpable for his crimes because of PTSD, Alcoholism, Depression and TBI?

More dishonesty? Really? Keep proving my observations right please, lol.

In that string, you kept say that PTSD symptoms, do not include breaks from reality. You used your link as evidence. Clinical data on the other hand, dictates that PTSD symptoms do include breaks from reality. These are further exacerbated by alcoholism, and other forms of trauma.

Quote:

No I did not see any evidence of that from any of the links that you provided...

Given your claim that your link doesn't say that he may very well be suffering from mental illness, I have no doubt you didn't see, what you didn't want to. LOL>

Quote:

Thanks for coming out though...

No need to thank me, the pleasure was all mine, I really enjoy PWN'ing ideologues.
 
Goober
+1
#551
[QUOTE=Vanni Fucci;1563936That's my whole point...others here are too quick to say he was mentally ill when he killed those people...that hasn't been proven and until the facts of the case come out and both sides are heard, there is no basis upon which he can be judged...so stop thinking you know what the **** I'm saying and ask if you can't keep up...[/QUOTE]


PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms - Relationship between PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms (external - login to view)

The researchers also found evidence that the more PTSD symptoms a person was experiencing, the greater the likelihood that they would also experience positive psychotic symptoms.

To take their study a step further, the researchers also looked at what traumatic events were most commonly related to the experience of psychotic symptoms. They found the following to be most strongly connected:
•Being involved in a fire, flood, or natural disaster


•Seeing someone get seriously injured or killed


•Experiencing tremendous shock as a result of a traumatic event that happened to a close relative, friend, or significant other

What This All Means

The experience of psychotic symptoms may tell the story of just how severe a person's case of PTSD is and how well he or she is coping with the condition. It may also raise red flags about the likelihood of potentially dangerous behaviors.

Current Psychiatry Reports, Volume 5, Number 3 - SpringerLink (external - login to view)

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) can result in serious and disabling neuropsychiatric disorders, such as cognitive deficits and personality change, as well as severe and chronic psychosis. This review focuses on the relationship between TBI and schizophrenia-like psychosis (SLP) including its epidemiology, diagnostic criteria, clinical presentation, psychopathology, risk factors, and pathophysiology. The relationships between post-traumatic epilepsy and SLP, and brain trauma and schizophrenia, are also discussed. The risk of SLP does increase after TBI. The clinical presentation has considerable overlap with primary schizophrenic disorder, with a prominence of persecutory and other delusions and auditory hallucinations, as well as a lack of negative symptoms. The onset is often gradual, with a subacute or chronic course. More severe and diffuse brain injury, especially of the temporal and frontal lobes, is the most prominent risk factor. Genetic load may also play a role, but presence of epilepsy could be a protective factor. Further large and systematic longitudinal studies are needed.
 
CDNBear
#552
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms - Relationship between PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms (external - login to view)

The researchers also found evidence that the more PTSD symptoms a person was experiencing, the greater the likelihood that they would also experience positive psychotic symptoms.

To take their study a step further, the researchers also looked at what traumatic events were most commonly related to the experience of psychotic symptoms. They found the following to be most strongly connected:
•Being involved in a fire, flood, or natural disaster


•Seeing someone get seriously injured or killed


•Experiencing tremendous shock as a result of a traumatic event that happened to a close relative, friend, or significant other

What This All Means

The experience of psychotic symptoms may tell the story of just how severe a person's case of PTSD is and how well he or she is coping with the condition. It may also raise red flags about the likelihood of potentially dangerous behaviors.

Current Psychiatry Reports, Volume 5, Number 3 - SpringerLink (external - login to view)

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) can result in serious and disabling neuropsychiatric disorders, such as cognitive deficits and personality change, as well as severe and chronic psychosis. This review focuses on the relationship between TBI and schizophrenia-like psychosis (SLP) including its epidemiology, diagnostic criteria, clinical presentation, psychopathology, risk factors, and pathophysiology. The relationships between post-traumatic epilepsy and SLP, and brain trauma and schizophrenia, are also discussed. The risk of SLP does increase after TBI. The clinical presentation has considerable overlap with primary schizophrenic disorder, with a prominence of persecutory and other delusions and auditory hallucinations, as well as a lack of negative symptoms. The onset is often gradual, with a subacute or chronic course. More severe and diffuse brain injury, especially of the temporal and frontal lobes, is the most prominent risk factor. Genetic load may also play a role, but presence of epilepsy could be a protective factor. Further large and systematic longitudinal studies are needed.

Can't be true Goob's, Vanni posted a link to a blog that has a couple quotes from an ex Army head shrinker, that says PTSD symptoms, and head injuries do not include breaks from reality.

Vanni Fucci (external - login to view) PWND, AGAIN!!!
 
Goober
+1
#553
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Can't be true Goob's, Vanni posted a link to a blog that has a couple quotes from an ex Army head shrinker, that says PTSD symptoms, and head injuries do not include breaks from reality.

Must have worked in the CIA Special Ops cell - reading minds and influencing persons behavior from afar.
 
Vanni Fucci
+2
#554
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Can't be true Goob's, Vanni posted a link to a blog that has a couple quotes from an ex Army head shrinker, that says PTSD symptoms, and head injuries do not include breaks from reality.

No I didn't...idiot![/QUOTE]

Do you two tag-team Goob's sister like this too?

Yeah I went there...
 
CDNBear
#555
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Must have worked in the CIA Special Ops cell - reading minds and influencing persons behavior from afar.

Nah, he's just your run of the mill ideologue.
 
Goober
+1
#556
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

No I didn't...idiot!

Do you two tag-team Goob's sister like this too?

Yeah I went there...[/QUOTE]

Why the emotional fury - Watch it now - Can be dangerous - heavens know what can happen when you are like that.
 
CDNBear
+1
#557
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

No I didn't...idiot!

You didn't post a link to an article that claimed PTSD does not include breaks from reality?

Then say that you believed the article, or Doctor in question, over Goob's and I?

Are you really that dishonest?

Quote:

Do you two tag-team Goob's sister like this too?

No, she isn't an intellectually dishonest hack.

Quote:

Yeah I went there...

Of course you did, your argument fell apart and you have nothing left. But are to fragile to admit you erred.

It's OK, you aren't unique.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

Oh oh!

Vanni Fucci (external - login to view) PWND, AGAIN AND AGAIN, lol.
 
Cliffy
+1
#558

United Playing For Change - YouTube

 
Vanni Fucci
+2
#559
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Nah, he's just your run of the mill ideologue.

You haven't got a clue what I am...

You two have been bashing away at whatever you perceived I was trying to say, and I'm tired of defending myself from your baseless attacks...

I've stated several times in this thread that if he is found to be not guilty of his crimes due to mental illness, then that is what it is, and I accept that...all I was trying to show, was that he has not been diagnosed as such, and so no one knows which way this case will lead...and if his lawyers are unable to prove he is mentally unfit to stand trial, then he should be locked up...for ****ing ever!
 
Goober
+1
#560
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

You haven't got a clue what I am...

You two have been bashing away at whatever you perceived I was trying to say, and I'm tired of defending myself from your baseless attacks...

I've stated several times in this thread that if he is found to be not guilty of his crimes due to mental illness, then that is what it is, and I accept that...all I was trying to show, was that he has not been diagnosed as such, and so no one knows which way this case will lead...and if his lawyers are unable to prove he is mentally unfit to stand trial, then he should be locked up...for ****ing ever!

Reason - They have not had time - Lots of soldiers in the field with PTSD - Fact - They give them meds - send them back out on the firing line. Fact.
 
CDNBear
+1
#561
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

You haven't got a clue what I am...

True, I have several.

Quote:

You two have been bashing away at whatever you perceived I was trying to say, and I'm tired of defending myself from your baseless attacks...

Correction, we've been bashing away at what you said. And you, for what and how you said it. I'm not surprised you can't understand that.

Quote:

I've stated several times in this thread that if he is found to be not guilty of his crimes due to mental illness, then that is what it is, and I accept that...all I was trying to show, was that he has not been diagnosed as such, and so no one knows which way this case will lead...and if his lawyers are unable to prove he is mentally unfit to stand trial, then he should be locked up...for ****ing ever!

Let's not forget this...

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

Agreed...but she's been in a position to diagnose PTSD in combat veterans, and I think she probably knows a hell of a lot more about it than you or I...so I think I'll accept her opinion over yours if you don't mind...

And that's just one, lol.

Your dishonesty, is record setting.
 
Vanni Fucci
+1
#562
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You didn't post a link to an article that claimed PTSD does not include breaks from reality?

Ok, I'm getting really annoyed with your feigned stupidity...you're obviously better than that...

The article I posted did not claim any such thing...it showed the symptoms of PTSD and none of them were psychosis...and the manifestation of PTSD symptoms does not include gunning down families...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Then say that you believed the article, or Doctor in question, over Goob's and I?

Of course I would...why the hell would I trust anything you two had to say...

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Your dishonesty, is record setting.

Ok, I'm done with you...not because I concede anything but that you are an idiot...

CDNBear PWNED

 
gerryh
+2
#563
I'm curious how the killer in toulouse is called a serial killer for killing 7 and this guy kills 16 without the label. Interesting.

oh yes, and this guy get's his defense handed to him by having his sanity immediately questioned while the guy in France is immediately labeled a terrorist which means he can't use insanity as a defense.
 
CDNBear
#564
Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

Ok, I'm getting really annoyed with your feigned stupidity...you're obviously better than that...

You're getting annoyed by something you made up?

Quote:

The article I posted did not claim any such thing...it showed the symptoms of PTSD and none of them were psychosis...and the manifestation of PTSD symptoms does not include gunning down families...

LOL, you're babbling.

Here, lets refresh your memory...

Quote: Originally Posted by Vanni FucciView Post

There we see that neither PTSD nor Traumatic Brain Injury include psychosis as a symptom.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms - Relationship between PTSD and Psychotic Symptoms (external - login to view)

The researchers also found evidence that the more PTSD symptoms a person was experiencing, the greater the likelihood that they would also experience positive psychotic symptoms.

To take their study a step further, the researchers also looked at what traumatic events were most commonly related to the experience of psychotic symptoms. They found the following to be most strongly connected:
•Being involved in a fire, flood, or natural disaster


•Seeing someone get seriously injured or killed


•Experiencing tremendous shock as a result of a traumatic event that happened to a close relative, friend, or significant other

What This All Means

The experience of psychotic symptoms may tell the story of just how severe a person's case of PTSD is and how well he or she is coping with the condition. It may also raise red flags about the likelihood of potentially dangerous behaviors.

Current Psychiatry Reports, Volume 5, Number 3 - SpringerLink (external - login to view)

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) can result in serious and disabling neuropsychiatric disorders, such as cognitive deficits and personality change, as well as severe and chronic psychosis. This review focuses on the relationship between TBI and schizophrenia-like psychosis (SLP) including its epidemiology, diagnostic criteria, clinical presentation, psychopathology, risk factors, and pathophysiology. The relationships between post-traumatic epilepsy and SLP, and brain trauma and schizophrenia, are also discussed. The risk of SLP does increase after TBI. The clinical presentation has considerable overlap with primary schizophrenic disorder, with a prominence of persecutory and other delusions and auditory hallucinations, as well as a lack of negative symptoms. The onset is often gradual, with a subacute or chronic course. More severe and diffuse brain injury, especially of the temporal and frontal lobes, is the most prominent risk factor. Genetic load may also play a role, but presence of epilepsy could be a protective factor. Further large and systematic longitudinal studies are needed.

Vanni Fucci (external - login to view) PWND!

Quote:

Of course I would...why the hell would I trust anything you two had to say...

I didn't say it, I posted a link to a site, that supports it's information with links to clinical data.

Quote:

Ok, I'm done with you...not because I concede anything but that you are an idiot...

Says the babbling boob, that doesn't know what he's said.

Quote:

CDNBear PWNED

Apparently you seem to be suffering from a break from reality.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'm curious how the killer in toulouse is called a serial killer for killing 7 and this guy kills 16 without the label. Interesting.

oh yes, and this guy get's his defense handed to him by having his sanity immediately questioned while the guy in France is immediately labeled a terrorist which means he can't use insanity as a defense.

Take it up with the media.
 
EagleSmack
#565
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'm curious how the killer in toulouse is called a serial killer for killing 7 and this guy kills 16 without the label. Interesting.

oh yes, and this guy get's his defense handed to him by having his sanity immediately questioned while the guy in France is immediately labeled a terrorist which means he can't use insanity as a defense.

Oh yeah Gerry... we're all rolling out the red carpet for this soldier.

He's in Leavenworth brainstorm. That's where he'll be forever.

Hey 7 ain't so bad right Gerry? At least it isn't 16 and he's not a Yank right? Why don't you start a fund for the guy in France.
 
gerryh
+1
#566
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Oh yeah Gerry... we're all rolling out the red carpet for this soldier.

He's in Leavenworth brainstorm. That's where he'll be forever.

Hey 7 ain't so bad right Gerry? At least it isn't 16 and he's not a Yank right? Why don't you start a fund for the guy in France.


and I would do that because...................................... unlike you, I don't try and justify a criminals actions. He killed 7 people, he goes away forever. The yank...we'll see what he actually gets. You guys are famous for slapping your boys wrists for killing.
 
Cliffy
#567
Off with 'is 'ead!
 
Goober
#568
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and I would do that because...................................... unlike you, I don't try and justify a criminals actions. He killed 7 people, he goes away forever. The yank...we'll see what he actually gets. You guys are famous for slapping your boys wrists for killing.

Your statement Buckey - Seems inconsistent to say the least.

+1#399Re: U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians4 days ago Quote: Originally Posted by Goober
On other threads he referred to the Taliban turning OBL over to another agreed upon country - Also the US was to present evidence to the Taliban of OBLs involvement.


Well....in this instance I would say prove his inconsistency....cause I haven't seen it when it comes to the Taliban, obl, and the u.s.


Quote: Originally Posted by Goober
Are you implying linkage as they served in the same unit -


God damn you really are an idiot..... he supplied evidence of a similar happening showing that those responsible were not just slapped on the wrist.....
 
Spade
#569
Not quite true, Goober.
My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)
The only one convicted served but 3.5 years under house arrest.
 
EagleSmack
#570
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and I would do that because...................................... unlike you, I don't try and justify a criminals actions. He killed 7 people, he goes away forever. The yank...we'll see what he actually gets. You guys are famous for slapping your boys wrists for killing.


Oh yeah? How so? You're so full of it.

Read and weep hypocrite...

Ottawa Notebook - The Globe and Mail

Two unarmed Afghans killed by NATO troops | CTV News

Canadian troops kill unarmed Afghan civilian - World - CBC News

And yeah... this guy will be going away for life and show me where I am justifying this murderer. Show me.
 
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