U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians


earth_as_one
+1
#451
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'll bet that this is the most likely scenario. The americans are not well known for going hard on soldiers that do what the americans really want done.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

at least I lay the blame where it belongs....... at least I don't try to shine the light on others..... at least I acknowledge what the western governments are responsible for.....

You could post references proving that since 9/11, our side has committed a thousand 9/11's against innocent people who never did us any harm, but Goober would remain unaware. Goober does not disapprove of our side's atrocities and has a remarkable capacity for overlooking them.


Robert Fisk: The shaming of America
24 October 2010
Our writer delivers a searing dispatch after the WikiLeaks revelations that expose in detail the brutality of the war in Iraq - and the astonishing, disgraceful deceit of the US

As usual, the Arabs knew. They knew all about the mass torture, the promiscuous shooting of civilians, the outrageous use of air power against family homes, the vicious American and British mercenaries, the cemeteries of the innocent dead. All of Iraq knew. Because they were the victims. Only we could pretend we did not know. Only we in the West could counter every claim, every allegation against the Americans or British with some worthy general – the ghastly US military spokesman Mark Kimmitt and the awful chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Peter Pace, come to mind – to ring-fence us with lies. Find a man who'd been tortured and you'd be told it was terrorist propaganda; discover a house full of children killed by an American air strike and that, too, would be terrorist propaganda, or "collateral damage", or a simple phrase: "We have nothing on that." Of course, we all knew they always did have something. And yesterday's ocean of military memos proves it yet again...
Robert Fisk: The shaming of America - Robert Fisk - Commentators - The Independent (external - login to view)
 
gerryh
#452
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

You could post references proving that since 9/11, our side has committed a thousand 9/11's against innocent people who never did us any harm, but Goober would remain unaware. Goober does not disapprove of our side's atrocities and has a remarkable capacity for overlooking them.


been there, done that, a complete waste of time.
 
earth_as_one
+1
#453

The frequency of small-scale killings involving US-led coalition forces is illustrated by data showing that for the period from 2005–2007, on average, they were killing (Iraqi) civilians in 1 or 2 incidents per day, and over 3 civilians per day, for three straight years (1,512 incidents, 3,617 deaths averaging 3.3 deaths per day; with 1.4 incidents per day, or almost 10 per week, averaging 2.4 deaths per incident).
Civilian deaths from violence in 2003-2011 :: Iraq Body Count (external - login to view)

Robert Fisk - Lies and Misreporting in the Middle East

Robert Fisk - Lies and Misreporting in the Middle East 15 - YouTube



Lies and Misreporting in the Middle East - YouTube (external - login to view)
 
Ocean Breeze
#454
Ret. Gen.: Massacre Could Force US From Afghanistan in Weeks -- News from Antiwar.com (external - login to view)


What Part of GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN Does the US not get?? Maybe it wants to get thrown out so it can say "we left because we were asked to. See, how amiable and agreable we are " Either way......one can imagine the spin meisters working over time on this one now.
Quote:



Ret. Gen.: Massacre Could Force US From Afghanistan in Weeks (external - login to view)

Karzai Demands to Confine Troops to Base Could Mean Pullout

 
Goober
#455
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

poor poor goober.... I see you really hate being called on your bloodlust.

I made the same offer to EAO - He also turned a resonable offer down. Both of you have another thing in common - Not answering direct questions.

Good to see you made a friend - We all need friends. I am truly happy for the 2 of you.

Oh yes - Your hands are as bloody as mine - Yes EAO that also includes you and OB as well.
 
earth_as_one
#456
I protested the Iraq war and wrote against it on the internet. My conscience isn't clear, because I could have protested and written more.

I support going after everyone responsible for 9/11. I still do. I'm just not so certain as I used to be that OBL had anything to do with it. At the time I was fooled into supporting an Afghan invasion because I believed at the time, that the Taliban were hiding/supporting OBL and the other people responsible. Since then I educated myself on Pashtun culture. I now realize that these people have a cultural obligation to protect their "guests" even if they don't like them. They also have a similar obligation to help us bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice. All we had to do was prove to them who was responsible for 9/11. As far as I know, that's never been done. I am not convinced that the official belief system regarding 9/11 is correct. I say belief system, because I've never seen any evidence linking OBL to 9/11. I'm certain OBL believed the US got what they deserved and were happy about it, but that's not the same as guilt and morally not that different than people who support Israeli assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists.

So yes my hands are bloody too. But unlike Goober, I'm pushing in the direction of least harm. I want to know the truth and and I want justice. Our leaders and the people who control the MSM aren't interested in the truth or justice. They are motivated by profit and power. Powerful people use the MSM to manipulate gullible people to support their agendas which include controlling Middle East oil, increased military/industrial corporate profits, continued Zionist ethnic cleansing (wiping Palestine off the map) and other goals which have little to do with freedom, justice or the truth.
 
gerryh
#457
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I made the same offer to EAO - He also turned a resonable offer down. Both of you have another thing in common - Not answering direct questions.

Good to see you made a friend - We all need friends. I am truly happy for the 2 of you.

Oh yes - Your hands are as bloody as mine - Yes EAO that also includes you and OB as well.


I have no problem with it numbnuts, just pointing out the obvious. Tell ya right now though, you bring this down to the hole... then the only way I will participate is if it IS no holds barred and I am assured I will NOT be banned for what I write. Otherwise, you can fu ck yourself.
 
Goober
#458
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I have no problem with it numbnuts, just pointing out the obvious. Tell ya right now though, you bring this down to the hole... then the only way I will participate is if it IS no holds barred and I am assured I will NOT be banned for what I write. Otherwise, you can fu ck yourself.

I do not make the rules Buckey - Forum rules would apply. If you have a problem with that take it up with the Guy that owns the place. Neither of us pay rent so we have to follow the rules.

Perhaps you and EAO would both like to come down - 1 thread - ah the fun and laughs we could have. Why it cheers my heart it does, and it always does when I see how pleasant you are in your replies.
 
gerryh
#459
I've already stated what I require to take you to task in the hole.... if that is not possible, then it would be no different than these threads, therefore, not necessary.
 
Goober
#460
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I've already stated what I require to take you to task in the hole.... if that is not possible, then it would be no different than these threads, therefore, not necessary.

These are open to the public - the other thread is for places like yourself and i to have a mature exchange. Now putting conditions on it that you know cannot be met - well that says loads about you. I am sure you can figure out what type of load I am referring to as you are such a well educated man.
 
gerryh
#461
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

These are open to the pubic - the other thread is for places like yourself and i to have a mature exchange. Now puttin conditions on it that you know cannot be met - well that says loads about you. I am sure you can figure out what type of load I am referring to as you are such a well educated man.


Following the board rules means it can stay here....what exactly is it you want from this "other" thread? What do you "hope" to accomplish? To show the rest of the board what kind of a person I am? They already know, stupid.
 
Goober
#462
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I protested the Iraq war and wrote against it on the internet. My conscience isn't clear, because I could have protested and written more.
I support going after everyone responsible for 9/11. I still do. I'm just not so certain as I used to be that OBL had anything to do with it. At the time I was fooled into supporting an Afghan invasion because I believed at the time, that the Taliban were hiding/supporting OBL and the other people responsible. Since then I educated myself on Pashtun culture. I now realize that these people have a cultural obligation to protect their "guests" even if they don't like them. They also have a similar obligation to help us bring those responsible for 9/11 to justice. All we had to do was prove to them who was responsible for 9/11. As far as I know, that's never been done. I am not convinced that the official belief system regarding 9/11 is correct. I say belief system, because I've never seen any evidence linking OBL to 9/11. I'm certain OBL believed the US got what they deserved and were happy about it, but that's not the same as guilt and morally not that different than people who support Israeli assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists.
So yes my hands are bloody too. But unlike Goober, I'm pushing in the direction of least harm. I want to know the truth and and I want justice. Our leaders and the people who control the MSM aren't interested in the truth or justice. They are motivated by...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
OK Buckey - You only use information sources that agree with your limitied opinion. And if it is against Jews well you are sure to use it.
 
gerryh
+1
#463
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

OK Buckey - You only use information sources that agree with your limitied opinion. And if it is against Jews well you are sure to use it.


again, numbnuts, prove what he says about the timeline between 9/11 and the invasion wrong. You can't, and therefore, like the tiny minded little man you are, you yell squirrel.
 
Goober
#464
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Following the board rules means it can stay here....what exactly is it you want from this "other" thread? What do you "hope" to accomplish? To show the rest of the board what kind of a person I am? They already know, stupid.

Just made an offer Buckey - Again thank you for such a well written reply. And so polite. Why Miss Manners would be proud of you, yes she would, now don't get all embarrased about that. It is a fine quality being so polite and all.
 
EagleSmack
+1
#465
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post


What Part of GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN Does the US not get??

Does Canada plan on staying there?

Hypocrisy at its peak...

BBC News - Canadian soldier sacked for shooting wounded Afghan (external - login to view)
 
Machjo
#466
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

Why is it always US soldiers who commit such terrible crimes? I can never remember a British soldier doing something like this in Afghanistan.

Either British soldiers are better able to mentally cope with fighting in a war than American soldiers are and so are less prone to flipping, or the British Army is better at teaching its soldiers what is right and what is wrong when fighting a war.

Canadian soldiers have committed war crimes abroad too.
 
Goober
#467
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Does Canada plan on staying there?

Hypocrisy at its peak...

BBC News - Canadian soldier sacked for shooting wounded Afghan (external - login to view)

He was convicted on the testimony of a Cpl the Capt. wanted to transfer and an Afghan Terp who was given landed imiigrant status. Guess he had a reason to be helpful.
The Warrant Officers testimony was disregarded.
 
EagleSmack
#468
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

He was convicted on the testimony of a Cpl the Capt. wanted to transfer and an Afghan Terp who was given landed imiigrant status. Guess he had a reason to be helpful.
The Warrant Officers testimony was disregarded.

It was directed at those who only look south and ignore what their own are doing. Pretending that they are so loved over there and are acting as angels of mercy as opposed to the Big Bad Americans.

Everyone's hands are bloody.
 
earth_as_one
#469
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Does Canada plan on staying there?

Hypocrisy at its peak...

BBC News - Canadian soldier sacked for shooting wounded Afghan (external - login to view)

..."The Afghan that Semrau was accused of shooting had allegedly taken part in an ambush on Semrau's unit and was already near death after a helicopter attack.".... suspected Afghan Taliban fighter lay disarmed and severely wounded, with one witness testifying he was "98% dead". Prosecutors said Semrau fired two shots at the prone fighter in a "mercy killing".

Are you equating that Canadian soldier's "mercy killing" of a dying Afghan militant to end his pain and suffering with an American soldier's murderous rampage against innocent civilians?

Shooting a wounded soldier who is clearly in agony and about to die may be harsh, but it was motivated by this soldier's perception of compassion. What this Canadian soldier did was illegal and a war crime, but its hardly the same as breaking into the homes of innocent civilians and murdering all the occupants, including women and children.
 
EagleSmack
+1
#470
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Canadian soldiers have committed war crimes abroad too.

I already responded to the resident Brit knucklehead. The Brits have been so deep in these killings from the outset. From the famed Coldsteam Guards to their Royal Marines. Nobody is innocent.
 
Goober
#471
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

It was directed at those who only look south and ignore what their own are doing. Pretending that they are so loved over there and are acting as angels of mercy as opposed to the Big Bad Americans.

Everyone's hands are bloody.

ES - I know that - was not sure if you were aware how he was hung out to dry.
 
EagleSmack
+2
#472
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

..."The Afghan that Semrau was accused of shooting had allegedly taken part in an ambush on Semrau's unit and was already near death after a helicopter attack.".... suspected Afghan Taliban fighter lay disarmed and severely wounded, with one witness testifying he was "98% dead". Prosecutors said Semrau fired two shots at the prone fighter in a "mercy killing".

Are you equating that Canadian soldier's "mercy killing" of a dying Afghan militant to end his pain and suffering with an American soldier's murderous rampage against innocent civilians?

Shooting a wounded soldier who is clearly in agony and about to die may be harsh, but it was motivated by this soldier's perception of compassion. What this Canadian soldier did was illegal and a war crime, but its hardly the same as breaking into the homes of innocent civilians and murdering all the occupants, including women and children.

LMAO! Mercy Killing he says! Mercy Killing!

Is that what you're trying to float around up there? 98% Dead... Good grief! What percentage "dead" are you?

Mercy Killing my azz!

Welcome to the Bloody Hands Club!
 
earth_as_one
#473
Canada's record in Afghanistan isn't spotless, but its pretty good
The good, the bad and the ugly of Canada (external - login to view)

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

LMAO! Mercy Killing he says! Mercy Killing!

Is that what you're trying to float around up there? 98% Dead... Good grief! What percentage "dead" are you?

Mercy Killing my azz!

Welcome to the Bloody Hands Club!

That would be 98% closer to death than the American butcher's victims who were sleeping in their beds and 100% healthy when they were gunned down and set on fire. I doubt that American was motivated by compassion for his victims. This Canadian soldier believed his actions were humane.

If you think the American soldier was motivated by compassion when he killed all these innocent civilians, then please make your case.
 
EagleSmack
#474
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Canada's record in Afghanistan isn't spotless, but its pretty good
The good, the bad and the ugly of Canada (external - login to view)

Nice Puff Piece. Do some more digging and you'll see. This wasn't the only incident.


Quote:

That would be 98% closer to death than the American butcher's victims who were sleeping in their beds and 100% healthy when they were gunned down and set on fire. I doubt that American was motivated by compassion for his victims.This Canadian soldier believed his actions were humane.

Oh I am sure he said he was motivated by compassion...but he was convicted wasn't he?

Such hypocrisy.

Welcome oh Welcome to the Bloody Hands Club!

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post


If you think the American soldier was motivated by compassion when he killed all these innocent civilians, then please make your case.

Now where did I say that?

FAIL
 
Goober
#475
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Canada's record in Afghanistan isn't spotless, but its pretty good
The good, the bad and the ugly of Canada (external - login to view)

That would be 98% closer to death than the American butcher's victims who were sleeping in their beds and 100% healthy when they were gunned down and set on fire. I doubt that American was motivated by compassion for his victims. This Canadian soldier believed his actions were humane.

If you think the American soldier was motivated by compassion when he killed all these innocent civilians, then please make your case.

So how much blood on my hands compared to yours?
 
earth_as_one
#476
The judge, Lieutenant-Colonel Jean-Guy Perron, told the 36-year-old captain that he had failed in his role as a military leader and as an “ambassador of Canadian values.” The Forces code of conduct says soldiers must offer aid to wounded enemies that do not pose a threat.
“How can we expect our soldiers to follow the laws of war if their officers do not? How can we expect the Afghan National Army to follow the laws of war if the officers mentoring them do not?” Lt.-Col. Perron said.
Capt. Semrau managed to avoid jail time or the more severe sentence of “dismissal with disgrace.”
Testimony heard during trial suggested the close-range “double-tap” shooting was an effort to end the suffering of a gravely injured man. But Capt. Semrau was acquitted of second-degree murder and attempted murder in July after the prosecution, which could not produce a body from the war zone, failed to substantiate either charge. He was instead found guilty this summer of shooting the insurgent – and convicted of disgraceful conduct under the National Defence Act.
Semrau’s sentence criticized for ‘ambiguous’ message - The Globe and Mail



Capt. Semrau got about the same punishment as most of the American marines who participated in the Haditha massacre. In that case, those marines went from house to house shooting unarmed civilians including women, children and a mother with a baby in her arms. Are you saying these crimes are equal?
 
EagleSmack
#477
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post


Capt. Semrau got about the same punishment as most of the American marines who participated in the Haditha massacre. In that case, those marines went from house to house shooting unarmed civilians including women, children and a mother with a baby in her arms. Are you saying these crimes are equal?

Apparently you would hope for me to swallow the Haditha Propaganda and the compassionate "mercy killing" at the same time?

Lets not get started on Libya and the indiscriminate and deliberate bombing of civilians that the Canadian General and his staff chose to target.

Since we're opening everything up here.

Filthy Bloody hands for all... INCLUDING YOU!
 
BruSan
#478
We had better not get all caught up in who has committed worse deeds in military history as ONE lawless death is one too many and puts you in the same category as any murderer. Let's not go into stuff like why we no longer have the Van Doo's regiment.

Bad stuff happens during conflicts and will continue to happen regardless if everyone sits down and reads their chosen prayer book before embarking on a mission so why not just drop the useless attempts at comparing apples and cumquats.
 
Goober
#479
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

The judge, Lieutenant-Colonel Jean-Guy Perron, told the 36-year-old captain that he had failed in his role as a military leader and as an “ambassador of Canadian values.” The Forces code of conduct says soldiers must offer aid to wounded enemies that do not pose a threat.
“How can we expect our soldiers to follow the laws of war if their officers do not? How can we expect the Afghan National Army to follow the laws of war if the officers mentoring them do not?” Lt.-Col. Perron said.
Capt. Semrau managed to avoid jail time or the more severe sentence of “dismissal with disgrace.”
Testimony heard during trial suggested the close-range “double-tap” shooting was an effort to end the suffering of a gravely injured man. But Capt. Semrau was acquitted of second-degree murder and attempted murder in July after the prosecution, which could not produce a body from the war zone, failed to substantiate either charge. He was instead found guilty this summer of shooting the insurgent – and convicted of disgraceful conduct under the National Defence Act.
Semrau’s sentence criticized for ‘ambiguous’ message - The Globe and Mail
Capt. Semrau got about the same punishment as most of the American marines who participated in the Haditha massacre. In...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
The testimony that convicted him was from a Cpl who the Capt wanted punted from the Unit - An Afghan Terp who recieved Landed Immigrant Staus for testifying. The Warrant Officers testimony was diregarded -
The testimony from the Cpl was hearsay - he saw nothing - He was only relating what he was supposedly told - Others disputed the Cply account as well.
In a civilian court - that would equate to reasonable doubt.

So how much blood on your hands compared to mine? After all you have stated time and again I am a warmonger.
 
EagleSmack
#480
Quote: Originally Posted by BruSanView Post

We had better not get all caught up in who has committed worse deeds in military history as ONE lawless death is one too many and puts you in the same category as any murderer. Let's not go into stuff like why we no longer have the Van Doo's regiment.

Bad stuff happens during conflicts and will continue to happen regardless if everyone sits down and reads their chosen prayer book before embarking on a mission so why not just drop the useless attempts at comparing apples and cumquats.

Exactly. I haven't even brought up the Somali Scandal.

I'm just pointing out the utter and unabashed hypocrisy that some folks in this forum have. Pointing out the neighbors faults while completely ignoring or making excuses for their own misdeeds.... actions or inactions (see Rwanda).
 
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