U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians


lone wolf
+2
#301
Lucky for him he doesn't have to appear before a panel of computer-chair experts. I'd go with the in-country thing - but then I'm thinking as a Canadian. He'd be beheaded before he got the formality of a trial in Afghanistan just as surely as he would online before the rabidly all-knowing ones
 
Ariadne
+1
#302
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Open question - Did you see any poster defending this massacre?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Suggestions that the mass murderer was drunk, had an unhappy marriage, or had bumped his head in a car accident (well before he was cleared physically and psychologically for this Afghan tour) have been tossed around.

What's the point of mentioning this information if not to minimize his responsibility for his actions?
 
Spade
+2
#303
Protracted violence leads individuals and societies to madness. For the madness that is Afghanistan there is no easy nostrum. But, a beginning is leaving it alone - to heal both them and us.
 
Ariadne
+1
#304
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

People are wondering what made him do this. It is a normal human reaction.



Are you stating he must be insane. Perhaps he just hated them. Perhaps he flipped out. Perhaps he had something wrong mentally. But it is madness. But what kind is the question and why.

He's a madman that decided to murder children in their beds. There is no explanation for why people do things like this. Psychologists have used labels like psychopath, sociopath and antisocial personality disorder to explain this madness.
 
lone wolf
+1
#305
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

Suggestions that the mass murderer was drunk, had an unhappy marriage, or had bumped his head in a car accident (well before he was cleared physically and psychologically for this Afghan tour) have been tossed around.

What's the point of mentioning this information if not to minimize his responsibility for his actions?

It's called speculation. Wassamatter.... You thought you were the only one?

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

He's a madman that decided to murder children in their beds. There is no explanation for why people do things like this. Psychologists have used labels like psychopath, sociopath and antisocial personality disorder to explain this madness.

Just like that....
 
Spade
+1
#306
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

Suggestions that the mass murderer was drunk, had an unhappy marriage, or had bumped his head in a car accident (well before he was cleared physically and psychologically for this Afghan tour) have been tossed around.

What's the point of mentioning this information if not to minimize his responsibility for his actions?

No one can wash his hands among the innocent. Let's begin to check the hands of politicians and us voters.
 
Goober
+1
#307
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

No one can wash his hands among the innocent. Let's begin to check the hands of politicians and us voters.

Yes again you are correct. We all have the blood on our hands. Some may think not, but we are all guilty.
 
Ariadne
+2
#308
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

It's called speculation. Wassamatter.... You thought you were the only one?

What excuses were provided to Russell Williams for his murderous rampage? Did anyone think it was necessary to explain his actions as a result of something beyond his control, like a bump on the head or side effects of medications, an unhappy marriage or a drunken stupor? The mass murderer from the US should be treated as a man that made a decision to murder children in their beds ... no excuses, no explanations ... he's simply a monster.
 
Goober
+1
#309
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

What excuses were provided to Russell Williams for his murderous rampage? Did anyone think it was necessary to explain his actions as a result of something beyond his control, like a bump on the head or side effects of medications, an unhappy marriage or a drunken stupor? The mass murderer from the US should be treated as a man that made a decision to murder children in their beds ... no excuses, no explanations ... he's simply a monster.

You sure are hung up on bumps in the head. Again are you aware of what happens to a soldiers brain from blast trauma. Clearly not as I have asked the question and you keep up with the bump in the head line.
Simplistic to say the least.
 
Spade
+2
#310
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

What excuses were provided to Russell Williams for his murderous rampage? Did anyone think it was necessary to explain his actions as a result of something beyond his control, like a bump on the head or side effects of medications, an unhappy marriage or a drunken stupor? The mass murderer from the US should be treated as a man that made a decision to murder children in their beds ... no excuses, no explanations ... he's simply a monster.


And for bombs that go astray and kill "children in their beds", who are the "monsters"? As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy..."
 
Ocean Breeze
-1
#311
Quote:

But in your eyes, all those who are pissed off at the US, this soldier and their military are just as bad as all these troops who murder innocent civilians, women, children, etc., simply because they're expressing their opinions, anger and disgust over these incidences??


Exactly. and these same folks complain about tarring the entire group with the same brush. ( It is ok for them to do that , brand, label, lump folks into terrorists (that don't agree with USG policies or many of the Military actions), but heaven help anyone call their rogue troops that do such horrific things murderers ......as after all........in their minds the US military (and the US ) function by their own rules and laws............or adjust them ,make them up........to fit whatever they want.

suspect that they unfortunately have been brainwashed by the "we are the best, the only worthwile , the most advanced blah blah blah nation in the universe. and thus are functioning from the position of that belief sysem. In some ways , they cannot help themselves ........as they have been programmed since they wore designer diapers.

And they think that folks can't see this. And they believe that this does not contribute to the angst against the US and its militant embassadors.(the military that go to war ......are American Embassadors. , and should maintain the highest of standards at all times. Those that can't or drink, drug and then go off into a shooting spree should not be part of the military.

There is too much at stake for this to happen. Each repercussion for each of these incidents are fully justified......furthermore , Afghanistan did not invite the US invasion . If the US wanted OBL.........they should have employed their top investigators ,top spys etc etc got permission from each nation (on the QT without drama and sensationalism ) that might have been protecting him to be able to look for him and bring him to the kind of justice that civlized nations have. We all know how that turned out.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

And for bombs that go astray and kill "children in their beds", who are the "monsters"? As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy..."

Have we ever.!! and it is ugly. When toddlers are slaughtered ........not sure how much lower they can go.

from all reports from numerous news agencies world wide.........this Incident might just be the last straw. Absolutely NOTHING favorable is being reported about the US or its military now.

Don't the powers that be REALIZE.........that each such incident undoes any "good" that might have been done.

Don't they realize that the Afghans are not going to treat this as one incident. They have watched each one occur and how the US has mishandled it, lied a bout it, smoothed over it and are fully justified to be very very angry. Anger breeds terrorsm.

How is the war on terrorism going for the US???

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

What excuses were provided to Russell Williams for his murderous rampage? Did anyone think it was necessary to explain his actions as a result of something beyond his control, like a bump on the head or side effects of medications, an unhappy marriage or a drunken stupor? The mass murderer from the US should be treated as a man that made a decision to murder children in their beds ... no excuses, no explanations ... he's simply a monster.

ABSOLUTELY.............what one cannot understand is this blind support of the troops , no matter what they do. Hero worship gone amock??
 
Spade
+4
#312
I think I meant each and every one of us, on ever side and for every cause. Not Just the US, or Canada, or the Afghanis, or the Russians, or the French ... The blame is not on the troops alone, or to any greater extent. It is you Ocean Breeze, and Ariadne, and I.
Last edited by Spade; Mar 16th, 2012 at 03:57 PM..
 
lone wolf
+3
#313
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

What excuses were provided to Russell Williams for his murderous rampage? Did anyone think it was necessary to explain his actions as a result of something beyond his control, like a bump on the head or side effects of medications, an unhappy marriage or a drunken stupor? The mass murderer from the US should be treated as a man that made a decision to murder children in their beds ... no excuses, no explanations ... he's simply a monster.

You just go right ahead and see what you want to see. Proper investigation sometimes involves seeing things you'd rather not - but have to accept anyhow.

No excuses....
 
Ocean Breeze
#314
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

I think I meant each and every one of us, on ever side and for every cause. Not Just the US, or Canada, or the Afghanis, or the Russians, or the French ... The blame is not on the troops alone, or to any greater extent. It is you Ocean Breeze, and Ariadne, and I.

fair enough. but lets not diffuse the specific topic with generalities.

How many more such massacres and "incidents" are to be tolerated before some drastic change happends. ?? When will war be a true LAST RESORT OPTION ?? and not an elective one that has become first choice???

Yes, the problem is a lot bigger .........but these situations are certainly not helping. Just saw Karzai speaking.......and he too is royally pizzed. (rightly so) Apparently this murderer rounded up the entire family from several rooms into one room before shooting them all.........INCLUDING A TODDLER.

He obviously had the "presence of mind" to "organize " his kills ......so the INTENT is there. He qualifies as a MASS MURDERER. Have "they" released his name yet?? Or are they afraid someone will go after his family in revenge??
 
lone wolf
+2
#315
Are you sure the problem is a lot bigger ... or heard a lot more? In Vietnam, three networks covered the news and I remember a lot of hell from that time. Now ... how many networks are looking to capitalize on a unique story?
 
EagleSmack
+2
#316
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Lucky for him he doesn't have to appear before a panel of computer-chair experts. I'd go with the in-country thing - but then I'm thinking as a Canadian. He'd be beheaded before he got the formality of a trial in Afghanistan just as surely as he would online before the rabidly all-knowing ones

Without question. A common practice in Afghanistan to behead murderers. Not the Ol' French way with the guillotine or the Axe. Typically a victims family member just begins sawing away with a common knife.
 
CDNBear
+3
#317
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

... and so on. I see no reason to pamper a murderer, but that's just me.

Can you point to anyone in this thread that has stated he should be pampered?

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

He's a mass murderer that should be treated accordingly and, in my opinion, he should have faced the consequences of his murderous rampage in the country where he committed it.

Funny, I think the same thing. Only I don't apply a whole load of fantasy to bolster my sentiment, like you.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

Exactly..........amazing how weak their arguments are as they support or try to excuse the most atrocious acts........just because it was a military person that committed this atrocity. This has to be a bi product of serious hero worship.

Talk about wearing blinders. Anyone that cannot be objective about these incidents and see both the immediate picture and the larger picture........are not in the position to even discuss them........due to partiality ..

You and Ariadne are anything but objective. Especially since no one in this thread has suggested pampering the Soldier or taking it easy on him. Your nemesis here, are just attacking the stupidity contained your's and Ariadne's posts.

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

You know what ... people in special opps don't talk about what they do.

BS. They are under orders to not disclose action, locals, or deployments. But they can most certainly discuss their MOS, rank. Daily military life.

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

Munitions ... but he's trained for jumping out of helicopters into the ocean, scuba, northern survival ... all that sort of stuff.

I know lots of guys that have done that training. Hell, I've done most of that.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I find, that when Bear doesn't back goober up when it comes to military....it means goob is talking out his ***....... again.

No, he's pretty on the ball here.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and, of course, they all tell their mother-in-laws EVERYTHING they legally can about what they do...right goob? That's a "well known fact"...right goob?

My mother inlaw, before the wife told her to beat it, grilled me like a side of beef for days. AAbout my family, my rank, my MOS, my unit, my mental health...

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

Gerry, you're quite right. I know very little about the young man I mentioned upthread. There was a time when I asked my daughter many questions about him, but I never really sat him down and gave him the third degree about his life and job.

You sound like either a piss poor mother inlaw, or a great one.

I'm leaning to the former.

Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

What's the point of mentioning this information if not to minimize his responsibility for his actions?

You mean like you minimizing the effects of head injuries?
 
EagleSmack
+3
#318
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

fair enough. but lets not diffuse the specific topic with generalities.

Because it hurts and hits close to home?

Quote:

Have "they" released his name yet?? Or are they afraid someone will go after his family in revenge??

I am sure you'd enjoy that wouldn't you? Blood lust

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Can you point to anyone in this thread that has stated he should be pampered?

I bet the ones crying for his head right now are the ones hoping above all hopes that he will get off just so they can spread their message of hate.

Can anyone here say the Breezy is not loving every moment of this? She lives and aches for the deaths of others to further carry on the way she does.Where would she be without all this carnage?
 
CDNBear
+3
#319
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

I bet the ones crying for his head right now are the ones hoping above all hopes that he will get off just so they can spread their message of hate.

I couldn't agree more!

Quote:

Can anyone here say the Breezy is not loving every moment of this? She lives and aches for the deaths of others to further carry on the way she does.Where would she be without all this carnage?

Haunting the potted plant forum down the hall.
 
darkbeaver
+2
#320
Already long ago war had exhausted every novel act of mindless brutality, every conceivable degeneracy has been enacted again and again. No war is won until the women and children lie bloodied and violated. Always aim at the hearths of the enemy.
Democrazy is expensive, I'm sure someday when Afghans can vote and go to school they will thank their heroic western liberators.
 
lone wolf
+4
#321
Yet they keep happening.... Ain't humans a nutty species?
 
darkbeaver
+1
#322
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Yet they keep happening.... Ain't humans a nutty species?

They happen cuz they make money for them that got money. Don't bet on humans being nutty all the time, cuz there is a limit and it has been reached many times in the past much to the discomfort of the lords and ladies.
 
Goober
+4
#323
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

I think I meant each and every one of us, on ever side and for every cause. Not Just the US, or Canada, or the Afghanis, or the Russians, or the French ... The blame is not on the troops alone, or to any greater extent. It is you Ocean Breeze, and Ariadne, and I.

Spade - Your posts on this were clear, concise, accurate and on the money. We all have the blood on our hands. No one is Not Guilty. We are all complicit, but some will deny this.
 
CDNBear
+3
#324
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

We are all complicit, but some will deny this.

While ignoring the real truths.
 
Locutus
+1
#325
Sources identify US soldier suspected in Afghan massacre

U.S. military sources tell Fox News the American soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians last weekend is Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, who is being flown to a military prison at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas.
Military officials have declined to identify the suspect publicly, insisting that it is usual procedure to keep a suspect's identity secret until he is officially charged. They have maintained that stance even after a hearing for the detained soldier Tuesday found probable cause to continue holding him, and he was sent from Afghanistan to a detention facility in Kuwait.

Read more: Sources Identify US Soldier Suspected In Afghan Massacre | Fox News (external - login to view)






 
CDNBear
+1
#326
Fort Leavenworth!!!

Oh no, not there!

That's where Manning is being held in terrible conditions. Tortured by lights always being on and so forth.

Or so the usual suspects keep saying.

This should make the usual suspects very happy.
 
Goober
#327
Quote: Originally Posted by LocutusView Post

Sources identify US soldier suspected in Afghan massacre

U.S. military sources tell Fox News the American soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians last weekend is Staff Sgt. Robert Bales, who is being flown to a military prison at Fort Leavenworth in Kansas.
Military officials have declined to identify the suspect publicly, insisting that it is usual procedure to keep a suspect's identity secret until he is officially charged. They have maintained that stance even after a hearing for the detained soldier Tuesday found probable cause to continue holding him, and he was sent from Afghanistan to a detention facility in Kuwait.

Read more: Sources Identify US Soldier Suspected In Afghan Massacre | Fox News (external - login to view)

His family has been moved to an Army base due to possible threats or attacks on his family members
 
Ariadne
#328
"Seattle lawyer John Henry Browne said that post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, would likely be part of the defense of the four-tour veteran.

"It is commonly used in military defense," he said, calling it a mitigating factor. Browne has said the soldier was unhappy about returning to combat after being wounded twice in Iraq.

He added on Friday that the man had witnessed a serious injury to a comrade the day before the massacre in the southern province of Kandahar on Sunday."

Afghan shooting soldier named as Robert Bales | World news | The Guardian (external - login to view)

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

You sure are hung up on bumps in the head. Again are you aware of what happens to a soldiers brain from blast trauma. Clearly not as I have asked the question and you keep up with the bump in the head line.
Simplistic to say the least.

He didn't have blast trauma, apparently he was upset about seeing a friend wounded ... and he, like every soldier that ever experienced war, had post traumatic stress disorder - the "commonly used in military defense."
 
CDNBear
#329
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

He didn't have blast trauma, apparently he was upset about seeing a friend wounded ... and he, like every soldier that ever experienced war, had post traumatic stress disorder - the "commonly used in military defense."

I know you like facts, or at least claim to.

PTSD is a real thing. With real effects.

Just because it upsets you, doesn't negate that fact.
 
Ariadne
#330
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I know you like facts, or at least claim to.

PTSD is a real thing. With real effects.

Just because it upsets you, doesn't negate that fact.

I'm reading loud and clear. PTSD: the "commonly used military defense,"

"An unnamed US official had told the New York Times the killings were a result of "a combination of stress, alcohol and domestic issues – he just snapped"."
 
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