U.S. soldier kills up to 16 Afghan civilians


EagleSmack
+1
#271
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post


Canadian soldiers in special opps are not allowed to discuss their activities. If you think that makes me a liar, so be it.

Apparently your correct!

JTF2 command 'encouraged' war crimes, soldier alleges - Canada - CBC News

"A member of Canada's elite special forces unit says he felt his peers were being "encouraged" by the Canadian Forces chain of command to commit war crimes in Afghanistan, according to new documents obtained by CBC News.
The documents from the military ombudsman's office show the member of the covert unit Joint Task Force 2, or JTF2, approached the watchdog in June 2008 to report the allegations of wrongdoing he had first made to his superior officers in 2006."

I doubt you're lieing though. I'd say your son-in-law is. He does Munitions? lol.

Just like the Marine Air Traffic Controller I know that goes around telling everyone he was a Grunt (Infantry) and saw a lot of combat in Desert Storm. lol

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Again BS - he is allowed to tell you what his trade is. What rank is he

How long in the Military -

Is he Army, Air Force or Navy

What base is he stationed at.

Come on down.

Hey take it easy Goobs. Her Great great Grand Daddy was a General in Napoleons Army!

Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

that is what is called silly diversional tactics when ES has nothing of substance to say but feels he/she must defend the US and its military at all costs.

back to topic.

No matter how the powers that be try to spin it.........it will not wash. The USG has lied, covered, protected criminals of war to the point now that it has no credibility . The MSM is about as bad as it does not dare print or relate anything that goes against the military complex.

Aye... it looks like we're in good company!

A walk down memory lane....

"The January 18th New York Times reported that 47 Canadian UN troops who served in Bosnia were accused of "drunkenness, sex, black marketeering and patient abuse at a mental hospital they were guarding." The soldiers had been assigned the "humanitarian" chore of guarding a mental hospital at Bakovici in order to secure it for the staff’s return. "The hospital instead became the setting for heavy drinking; sex between soldiers, nurses and interpreters that violated regulations; black-market sales; and harassment of the patients...."
 
gerryh
+1
#272
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post


"The January 18th New York Times reported that 47 Canadian UN troops who served in Bosnia were accused of "drunkenness, sex, black marketeering and patient abuse at a mental hospital they were guarding." The soldiers had been assigned the "humanitarian" chore of guarding a mental hospital at Bakovici in order to secure it for the staff’s return. "The hospital instead became the setting for heavy drinking; sex between soldiers, nurses and interpreters that violated regulations; black-market sales; and harassment of the patients...."


Yup, soldiers are real special people.
 
Praxius
+1 / -1
#273
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Funny.. The Afghan military has welcomed them with open arms all throughout this ordeal......

Considering that Afghan Military you speak of was put there in the first place by the invaders who pushed the Taliban out of power, that's a bit of a flawed argument.

It's no different than puppet governments supporting the country in which put them there to be puppets in the first place...... they support them?

No Kidding, I wonder why?

Probably because they're designed to. It doesn't make sense to take over a country, over throw their government, and then setup a new government, a new police force and a new military that will turn around and shoot you in the face......

.... Oh wait.... never mind, the US has stabbed their puppet government, its people, the police and military in the back so many times now, they turned them into the above.

Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Odd thing is hatred spouted for or against barbaric conduct tends to turn people off - thus blinding them to barbaric conduct. You're not part of ANY solution. Your venom is the same thing.

So then what?

Shall everybody who doesn't agree with this kind of conduct just continue to sit back and keep their mouths shut & let it keep going?

Like that's ever solved anything.

People are pissed and they have every damn right to be pissed... the Afghan's have the right to be pissed off.... Canadians and especially our troops should be pissed off, as well as every other NATO nation and those who still have some level of sense.

But in your eyes, all those who are pissed off at the US, this soldier and their military are just as bad as all these troops who murder innocent civilians, women, children, etc., simply because they're expressing their opinions, anger and disgust over these incidences??

Their "Venom" is sure as hell not the same damn thing.

It might turn off some people.... but it will polarize many more to want some sort of change, some sort of justice. Keeping silent and continually letting these "Incidences" happen over and over again will not solve anything and in fact, is possibly one of the main reasons why these things happen so often as they do.

Many get away with raping, killing, mutilating and torturing so often simply because things are covered up, trivialized or otherwise brushed under the carpet.... killing an Iraqi or an Afghan isn't as bad as killing one of your own.... besides, they're not really humans, are they?

The same thing happens all the time in US Society.

Some nut goes on a shooting rampage, it's chalked up to being an isolated incident, and when people start to see a pattern & it happening more often and try to find ways to reduce the chances of these things happening again, or suggest some level of gun control, officials state that it's not the time for this kind of debate and it's a time for mourning..... then it's all forgotten about until the next mass shooting, then the same things are brought up yet again, and again we're all told it's not the time for this debate, it's a time for mourning the dead.

..... and it just keeps on going.... people keep getting gunned down.... all that is done is for officials to trivialize what happened and hope for the best that it won't happen again.
 
Locutus
+1
#274
The American staff sergeant suspected of killing 16 Afghan villagers had been drinking alcohol — a violation of military rules in combat zones — and suffering from the stress related to his fourth combat tour and tensions with his wife about the deployments on the night of the massacre, a senior American official said Thursday.


www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/wo...says.html?_r=1 (external - login to view)
 
Goober
+1
#275
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

maybe..... I'll lay odds though that goobs talkin out his *** this time around.

Nope.

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Considering that Afghan Military you speak of was put there in the first place by the invaders who pushed the Taliban out of power, that's a bit of a flawed argument.
.

I do not see anyone defending this murder of innocent civilians. I do see people wanting to know why he did this, did he snap, was he just on a drunken rampage. The why is what many are looking for.
 
lone wolf
+1
#276
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

So then what?

Shall everybody who doesn't agree with this kind of conduct just continue to sit back and keep their mouths shut & let it keep going?

Nope... Just knock off with the rhetoric. Who wants to wade through the ravings of what comes out like a lunatic

Quote:

Like that's ever solved anything.

And you'd know this how?

Quote:

People are pissed and they have every damn right to be pissed... the Afghan's have the right to be pissed off.... Canadians and especially our troops should be pissed off, as well as every other NATO nation and those who still have some level of sense.

But in your eyes, all those who are pissed off at the US, this soldier and their military are just as bad as all these troops who murder innocent civilians, women, children, etc., simply because they're expressing their opinions, anger and disgust over these incidences??

Their "Venom" is sure as hell not the same damn thing.

It might turn off some people.... but it will polarize many more to want some sort of change, some sort of justice. Keeping silent and continually letting these "Incidences" happen over and over again will not solve anything and in fact, is possibly one of the main reasons why these things happen so often as they do.

Many get away with raping, killing, mutilating and torturing so often simply because things are covered up, trivialized or otherwise brushed under the carpet.... killing an Iraqi or an Afghan isn't as bad as killing one of your own.... besides, they're not really humans, are they?

The same thing happens all the time in US Society.

Some nut goes on a shooting rampage, it's chalked up to being an isolated incident, and when people start to see a pattern & it happening more often and try to find ways to reduce the chances of these things happening again, or suggest some level of gun control, officials state that it's not the time for this kind of debate and it's a time for mourning..... then it's all forgotten about until the next mass shooting, then the same things are brought up yet again, and again we're all told it's not the time for this debate, it's a time for mourning the dead.

..... and it just keeps on going.... people keep getting gunned down.... all that is done is for officials to trivialize what happened and hope for the best that it won't happen again.

So what? Go there and be something. All they are in here is anonymous. Stand up and be counted. I think about the same of terrorists and propagandists. At least the targets of their insults have names.
 
EagleSmack
#277
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post


People are pissed and they have every damn right to be pissed... the Afghan's have the right to be pissed off.... Canadians and especially our troops should be pissed off, as well as every other NATO nation and those who still have some level of sense.

.

I guess you haven't been following along. There is plenty of this stuff going around among all troops... including Canadian. Maybe not 16 at a pop but one need only to Google and you'll find a wealth of info out there. As I said... looks like we're in good company. We all have bloody hands here.
 
gerryh
#278
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

I guess you haven't been following along. There is plenty of this stuff going around among all troops... including Canadian. Maybe not 16 at a pop but one need only to Google and you'll find a wealth of info out there. As I said... looks like we're in good company. We all have bloody hands here.


and your point is what? That it's "OK" then? and you're right, having formerly been in the military, your hands are bloody.
 
Goober
+1
#279
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

maybe..... I'll lay odds though that goobs talkin out his *** this time around.

I will take up those odds. While I an not as conversant as many of a number of topics I do know the Military and I do know what BS is.

I am well aware the JTF2 Soldiers cannot talk about specifics and even if they are in that unit. I do know they talk about what Regiment they are in, or what support trade they are. That is not considered secret and not a forbidden topic in the Military.

Another thing as well. They generally serve a set time in JTF2 and back to their unit.
 
gerryh
#280
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I will take up those odds. While I an not as conversant as many of a number of topics I do know the Military and I do know what BS is.

I am well aware the JTF2 Soldiers cannot talk about specifics and even if they are in that unit. I do know they talk about what Regiment they are in, or what support trade they are. That is not considered secret and not a forbidden topic in the Military.

Another thing as well. They generally serve a set time in JTF2 and back to their unit.


and, of course, they all tell their mother-in-laws EVERYTHING they legally can about what they do...right goob? That's a "well known fact"...right goob?
 
EagleSmack
#281
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and your point is what? That it's "OK" then? and you're right, having formerly been in the military, your hands are bloody.

My point is to those that think they are perfect and angelic... wake up and smell the cordite... their hands are bloody too.

Did I say it was "OK"? Such a simple mind you have.

Oh hell yeah Gerry. I was in the infantry as well! Proud of it too Canuckie!
 
Goober
#282
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and, of course, they all tell their mother-in-laws EVERYTHING they legally can about what they do...right goob? That's a "well known fact"...right goob?

No they tell the MOIL as little as possible - They can only talk when they have orders in writing from their wife.
 
gerryh
#283
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

No they tell the MOIL as little as possible - They can only talk when they have orders in writing from their wife.


Make up your mind goob, either Adriane should know all this crap about her son-in-law or she shouldn't..... which is it.
 
Goober
#284
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Make up your mind goob, either Adriane should know all this crap about her son-in-law or she shouldn't..... which is it.

I made up my mind - My reply was sarcasm. Did you miss that?
 
gerryh
#285
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I made up my mind - My reply was sarcasm. Did you miss that?


Then you figure he will be telling his mil everything then... is that what you did? Personally, I tell my MIL very little... none of her damn business.
 
Goober
#286
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Then you figure he will be telling his mil everything then... is that what you did? Personally, I tell my MIL very little... none of her damn business.

Gerry - You are right - I do not know Jack Shxt

I have met Bullshxt and Making up Shxt as they are both related to each other. I have also met Causing Shxt, Raising Shxt and Stirring Shxt, they are all related to each other as well.

But Jack Shxt does not know me and I admit to not knowing Jack Shxt.

Hope this clarifies things for you.
 
gerryh
#287
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Gerry - You are right - I do not know Jack Shxt

I have met Bullshxt and Making up Shxt as they are both related to each other. I have also met Causing Shxt, Raising Shxt and Stirring Shxt, they are all related to each other as well.

But Jack Shxt does not know me and I admit to not knowing Jack Shxt.

Hope this clarifies things for you.


I already know all of that..... had that figured out quite some time ago.
 
Ariadne
#288
Gerry, you're quite right. I know very little about the young man I mentioned upthread. There was a time when I asked my daughter many questions about him, but I never really sat him down and gave him the third degree about his life and job. When I understood that I wasn't really allowed to know anything about what he did until after it was done, and that even then only limited information could be given, I pretty much respected that and left it in his hands to tell me what he wanted. I don't know what "trade" he is in, but I do know that he attended university, that he loves his job and that he compartamentalizes his life.

The man that went on a murderous rampage in Afghanistan strikes me as an everyday criminal, no different than Russell Williams. Thankfully the Canadian government didn't pamper Williams when he was arrested for his activities, even though he was a military man, and hopefully the US government won't pamper their mass murdering man that is a disgrace those that wear a uniform. The US military would be wise to quickly distance themselves from their mass murderer rather than attempt to justify his behavior as being beyond his control (eg: bumped his head, got drunk, had a sad marriage, etc.). Imagine the outrage Canadians would have had if the Canadian military had said poor little Russell Williams, the pressures of his job in the military, his physical injuries and pain medication made him go nuts and attack civilians using all of his military skills. At least the Canadians stripped him of his rank, destroyed all historic documents related to him, burned his uniform and did everything they could to wipe his existence from the face of the earth.
 
B00Mer
#289
Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai thinks there was a second shooter...

ABC Radio Australia News:Stories:Karzai questions US lone gunman theory (external - login to view)
 
Goober
#290
Quote: Originally Posted by AriadneView Post

Gerry, you're quite right. I know very little about the young man I mentioned upthread. There was a time when I asked my daughter many questions about him, but I never really sat him down and gave him the third degree about his life and job. When I understood that I wasn't really allowed to know anything about what he did until after it was done, and that even then only limited information could be given, I pretty much respected that and left it in his hands to tell me what he wanted. I don't know what "trade" he is in, but I do know that he attended university, that he loves his job and that he compartamentalizes his life.
The man that went on a murderous rampage in Afghanistan strikes me as an everyday criminal, no different than Russell Williams. Thankfully the Canadian government didn't pamper Williams when he was arrested for his activities, even though he was a military man, and hopefully the US government won't pamper their mass murdering man that is a disgrace those that wear a uniform. The US military would be wise to quickly distance themselves from their mass murderer rather than attempt to justify his behavior as being beyond his control (eg: bumped his head, got drunk, had a sad marriage, etc.). Imagine the outrage Canadians would have had if the Canadian military had said poor little Russell Williams, the pressures of his job in the military, his physical injuries and pain medication made him go nuts and attack civilians using all...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Where did the US Govt try to make excuses?

Your opinion of how the Military acts in these cases demonstrates a clear inability of the reality of how cases are investigated.

But then again, you are the Judge ,Jury and Executioner.

Thnakfully we have a Justice system to protect us from the Lynch Mob mentality that you have.
 
gerryh
#291
Up to this point, the american forces has demonstrated a distinct bias in protecting their criminals rather than prosecuting and punishing. I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to anyone facing any kind of punishment for this mass murder.
 
Goober
#292
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Up to this point, the american forces has demonstrated a distinct bias in protecting their criminals rather than prosecuting and punishing. I'll believe it when I see it when it comes to anyone facing any kind of punishment for this mass murder.

Open question - Did you see any poster defending this massacre?

A simple yes or no would suffice.
 
EagleSmack
+1
#293
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Open question - Did you see any poster defending this massacre?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

They see what they want to see.

I'd bet they are hoping he gets off just so they can come back here and whine like a bunch of b******.
 
gerryh
+2
#294
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Open question - Did you see any poster defending this massacre?

A simple yes or no would suffice.


"A simple yes or no" is a lawyers trick to illicit a certain response. Ain't happening. What I have seen here is a gradual inclusion of "reasons" as to why he killed all these people. Excuses for his behavior. The same thing that has happened in the past, therefore I have no real confidence in any kind of justice.
 
Spade
+1
#295
There is no reason but madness!
 
Goober
#296
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

"A simple yes or no" is a lawyers trick to illicit a certain response. Ain't happening. What I have seen here is a gradual inclusion of "reasons" as to why he killed all these people. Excuses for his behavior. The same thing that has happened in the past, therefore I have no real confidence in any kind of justice.

People are wondering what made him do this. It is a normal human reaction.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

There is no reason but madness!

Are you stating he must be insane. Perhaps he just hated them. Perhaps he flipped out. Perhaps he had something wrong mentally. But it is madness. But what kind is the question and why.
 
Spade
#297
We are not psychologists. We cannot divine his madness.
 
Goober
#298
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

We are not psychologists. We cannot divine his madness.

Correct, we are not. But in the US the Insanity Defense is rarely accepted. In Canada it is different.

But to wonder what and why is normal
 
Spade
+2
#299
Madness is not isolated to individuals.
 
Goober
+1
#300
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Madness is not isolated to individuals.

True.
 
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