B.C. School teachers - What would be fair?


JLM
#1
The teachers are going on strike. The Gov't. doesn't seem to want to budge. We are in tough economic times, yet the politicians helped themselves to ridiculous raises a few years ago. On the other hand the teachers don't seem to realize that to get a raise would mean increased taxes, which would be a burden to a lot of people who earn far less than they do. What kind of example are the teachers setting for the children they teach? Are their demands just perpetuating greed? What's the solution? Would say a 2% raise be out of line?
 
captain morgan
#2
Have you looked into what they're asking for?
 
JLM
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Have you looked into what they're asking for?

Yep, they started out by asking for 15% and I believe smaller class sizes, not too sure about the rest of it.
 
captain morgan
+1
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yep, they started out by asking for 15% and I believe smaller class sizes, not too sure about the rest of it.


Look into the compassionate care issue... It's a biggie
 
JLM
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Look into the compassionate care issue... It's a biggie

Can you provide a link?
 
petros
#6
Compassionate care.....

Government of B.C., Labour&Citizens' Services, Employment Standards Branch, Compassionate Care Leave Factsheet
 
captain morgan
#7
Thanks Pete!
 
JLM
#8
I think everyone in the world is closely connected to someone who at sometime will be within 26 weeks of their demise.
 
petros
#9
Change the law then the BCTF won't try to utilize it to their favour.
 
captain morgan
+2
#10
The BC gvt should start offering more licenses for private and charter schools.. The AB gvt did that everytime that the ATA went on strike and it has had a discernible impact on the stability in that sector today
 
petros
+1
#11
BC = Basket Case
 
JLM
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

BC = Basket Case

How should it be remedied?
 
petros
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

How should it be remedied?

Simple. Do the opposite of what has been done over the past 40 years.
 
JLM
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Simple. Do the opposite of what has been done over the past 40 years.

I tend to agree, start cutting wages, drive prices back down to a realistic level so we don't have to spend $million for a roof over our heads, but I'm thinking you and I are the only ones who would agree.
 
taxslave
+2
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Simple. Do the opposite of what has been done over the past 40 years.

We have already spent the last 10 years trying to undo the damage done by by the dippers during the dark decade. The government union leaders are so far out in left field they make Jack Layton look like a conservative. If teachers want more money they can do like the rest of us. Work more hours either at a regular job or self employment. Oh wait very few teachers have any transferable job skills.

i would like to know exactly how many hours a year teachers put in, not counting after hours coaching etc since this is volunteer time. Then compare it to what the rest of us make for the same hours.
In my view no government employee should not have the right to strike. They are either essential services or redundant.
 
petros
+1
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

We have already spent the last 10 years trying to undo the damage done by by the dippers during the dark decade. The government union leaders are so far out in left field they make Jack Layton look like a conservative. If teachers want more money they can do like the rest of us. Work more hours either at a regular job or self employment. Oh wait very few teachers have any transferable job skills.

i would like to know exactly how many hours a year teachers put in, not counting after hours coaching etc since this is volunteer time. Then compare it to what the rest of us make for the same hours.
In my view no government employee should not have the right to strike. They are either essential services or redundant.

You have to go back far further than dippers.

It's not really a problem of undoing it's the lack of doing.

Lay off the damn parties. Expo hasn't been paid off and you go and have an Olympics? WTF?

And for Christ sakes get rid of that goddam $60 Billion in debt already even if damn near kills ya

It's what SK did. Bit the bullet and paid off debt, kept the belt tight while investing internally in whatever was rock solid. Financial and insurance lead our economy not oil, potash or other mining not agriculture not forestry.

Oil and mining were always underdeveloped because western infrastructure was underdeveloped and these resources are now feasible. Asia Pacific Bill Gatesway is the best damn thing to hit the West since the CPR.

USE IT!!!

If BC wants to make money, start dumping money into infrastructure so that Whitehorse and Yellowknife have direct access to the Gatesway.
 
JLM
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's what SK did. Bit the bullet and paid off debt, kept the belt tight while investing internally in whatever was rock solid. Financial and insurance lead our economy not oil, potash or other mining not agriculture not forestry.

Oil and mining were always underdeveloped because western infrastructure was underdeveloped and these resources are now feasible. Asia Pacific Bill Gatesway is the best damn thing to hit the West since the CPR.

USE IT!!!

If BC wants to make money, start dumping money into infrastructure so that Whitehorse and Yellowknife have direct access to the Gatesway.

Finance and insurance doesn't generate money- oil, mining and potash does!
 
petros
+1
#18
How do you get oil and potash to market without money and infrastructure?
 
JLM
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

How do you get oil and potash to market without money and infrastructure?

You don't. But without things like oil and potash and a thousand other commodities there is no use for infrastructure.
 
petros
#20
The tonnage of grain in Western Canada out weighs potash. It was good to run it to port on lines built in the 1800's or was that becoming too freakin' inefficient too?
 
JLM
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

The tonnage of grain in Western Canada out weighs potash. It was good to run it to port on lines built in the 1800's or was that becoming too freakin' inefficient too?

We're getting away from school teachers.
 
petros
#22
Yup. But you'd all be better off and strikes less frequent.
 
karrie
+2
#23
Politicians play a short game. You get out of your tax payer base what you've invested in it. Larger class sizes, failing to keep teachers wages and benefits on par with other sectors, means that the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product the education system is turning out will steadily decrease in value. As this happens, your tax base decreases in value, so you raise class sizes, fail to keep up with wages, and the product... well, you get my drift.
 
captain morgan
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

You get out of your tax payer base what you've invested in it.

Truer words were never spoken... However....

There has to be a form of measure to determine what the expected outputs need to be to justify the inputs. The private sector analysis is easy, but the public sector is more tricky.

Understanding that the public sector provides essential services that may be difficult or impossible to measure in tangible terms, the equation gets more complicated when the public sector is the only player in the game (ie. healthcare - kinda). How can anyone truly determine what is standard if there is no real measuring stick for comparison?
 
karrie
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Truer words were never spoken... However....

There has to be a form of measure to determine what the expected outputs need to be to justify the inputs. The private sector analysis is easy, but the public sector is more tricky.

Understanding that the public sector provides essential services that may be difficult or impossible to measure in tangible terms, the equation gets more complicated when the public sector is the only player in the game (ie. healthcare - kinda). How can anyone truly determine what is standard if there is no real measuring stick for comparison?


A provincial curriculum designed to meet trade, college, and/or university standards upon exiting, with standardized testing to ensure that schools are following said curriculum, seems like a pretty successful system of measurement. I won't disagree about the importance of an assortment of learning paths available to students, but BC has private schools so I don't qite understand your point.
 
JLM
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Truer words were never spoken... However....

There has to be a form of measure to determine what the expected outputs need to be to justify the inputs. The private sector analysis is easy, but the public sector is more tricky.

Understanding that the public sector provides essential services that may be difficult or impossible to measure in tangible terms, the equation gets more complicated when the public sector is the only player in the game (ie. healthcare - kinda). How can anyone truly determine what is standard if there is no real measuring stick for comparison?

Doesn't the main "measuring stick" lie in the taxpayers ability to pay? There is something wrong when people earning $30,000 are being taxed to the hilt to pay people making upward of $70,000. The gap between rich and poor continues to widen. Just like when the minimum wage goes up $1 the C.P.O.'s wage goes up $10.
 
karrie
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Doesn't the main "measuring stick" lie in the taxpayers ability to pay? There is something wrong when people earning $30,000 are being taxed to the hilt to pay people making upward of $70,000. The gap between rich and poor continues to widen. Just like when the minimum wage goes up $1 the C.P.O.'s wage goes up $10.

I think the biggest part of the issue is that politicians are paying themselves first. They're not investing in the long game that would naturally pay them well, instead they're making the top of the pyramid heavy, while undermining the base. But that's not the teachers' faults. Disallowing them pay because politicians took too much makes no sense. That's for the politicians to be accountable for.
 
JLM
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

I think the biggest part of the issue is that politicians are paying themselves first. They're not investing in the long game that would naturally pay them well, instead they're making the top of the pyramid heavy, while undermining the base. But that's not the teachers' faults. Disallowing them pay because politicians took too much makes no sense. That's for the politicians to be accountable for.

I hear you loud and clear, Karrie, Perhaps they are all a bunch of F******g babies!
 
L Gilbert
+1
#29
How about paying teachers the politicians' salaries and paying the politicians the teachers'salaries. Seems fair to me.

Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

I think the biggest part of the issue is that politicians are paying themselves first. They're not investing in the long game that would naturally pay them well, instead they're making the top of the pyramid heavy, while undermining the base. But that's not the teachers' faults. Disallowing them pay because politicians took too much makes no sense. That's for the politicians to be accountable for.

Yup. That's at least part of the problem.
 
taxslave
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You have to go back far further than dippers.

It's not really a problem of undoing it's the lack of doing.

Lay off the damn parties. Expo hasn't been paid off and you go and have an Olympics? WTF?

And for Christ sakes get rid of that goddam $60 Billion in debt already even if damn near kills ya

It's what SK did. Bit the bullet and paid off debt, kept the belt tight while investing internally in whatever was rock solid. Financial and insurance lead our economy not oil, potash or other mining not agriculture not forestry.

Oil and mining were always underdeveloped because western infrastructure was underdeveloped and these resources are now feasible. Asia Pacific Bill Gatesway is the best damn thing to hit the West since the CPR.

USE IT!!!

If BC wants to make money, start dumping money into infrastructure so that Whitehorse and Yellowknife have direct access to the Gatesway.

Unfortunately those of us that were born here and need to earn a living are outnumbered by rich retirees from elsewhere and looney lefties. Neither group want to see any economic activity that might impact their desire to do nothing but play.

Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

A provincial curriculum designed to meet trade, college, and/or university standards upon exiting, with standardized testing to ensure that schools are following said curriculum, seems like a pretty successful system of measurement. I won't disagree about the importance of an assortment of learning paths available to students, but BC has private schools so I don't qite understand your point.

Because the BCTF likes none of the above yardsticks. They don't even like handing out ribbons at sports day because the kids that didn't win might have their feelings hurt. They have lowered our education standards to the lowest common denominator where the poor learners are coddled and the best and brightest are left to their own devices. Worse they have managed to convince the parents of every kid that they can label "special needs" that it is their right to have special teachers and assistants for each kid.At the highest pay in Canada with 2 weeks paid vacation when Great aunt Marthas budgie dies or anyone they know has a cold.. Not a single care about the taxpayer.
 
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