B.C. School teachers - What would be fair?


JLM
+1
#121
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

And today the teachers and their supporters in other militant government unions denied taxpayers their right to accessing government services by picketing government offices that have nothing to do with education. In one news clip a government worker was shown physically blocking taxpayers from entering a building they own. Just one more reason why government employees must not have the right to strike.

Just heard on the news there will be no penalty for the shenanigans they pulled today so long as they don't do it tomorrow.

I think Christy's leniency may cost her big time. She missed a chance to grab about 38% support across the province.
 
JLM
#122
I got to wondering how many of these teachers who voted strike are "teaching" Economics.
 
Bar Sinister
#123
Here's what is fair. Pay each beginning teacher $2.50 per day for each child they see each day as a babysitting fee. Senior teachers would receive up to $5.00 per child per day. Then ask that while they are babysitting these children that they teach them for free.
 
JLM
#124
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

Here's what is fair. Pay each beginning teacher $2.50 per day for each child they see each day as a babysitting fee. Senior teachers would receive up to $5.00 per child per day. Then ask that while they are babysitting these children that they teach them for free.

I somehow doubt if they will buy it- maybe $2.50 an hour!!
 
Dexter Sinister
#125
I don't know what would be fair, I don't live in B.C. and don't really know what the issues are, but if what I've read in my newspapers is true, I'd have to say that the union's demand for 15% and the government's offer of 0% are both unfair to everybody involved. In fact I've seen so many conflicting claims I don't know who or what to believe. Did the union really demand 15%? That just stupid, that's hopeless. Did the government really offer 0%? That's just as hopelessly stupid. My impression is that the union officials and the teachers aren't really on the same page either. Can anybody explain what's going on? I have some Facebook friends who are B.C. teachers (people I met a hundred years ago in university) and they don't seem to have a clear idea of what's going on either.
 
JLM
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

I don't know what would be fair, I don't live in B.C. and don't really know what the issues are, but if what I've read in my newspapers is true, I'd have to say that the union's demand for 15% and the government's offer of 0% are both unfair to everybody involved. In fact I've seen so many conflicting claims I don't know who or what to believe. Did the union really demand 15%? That just stupid, that's hopeless. Did the government really offer 0%? That's just as hopelessly stupid. My impression is that the union officials and the teachers aren't really on the same page either. Can anybody explain what's going on? I have some Facebook friends who are B.C. teachers (people I met a hundred years ago in university) and they don't seem to have a clear idea of what's going on either.

I think the original demand was 15% over 3 years. The Gov't is in fact holding fast at zero, which in good times may be stupid and hopeless, but to give them a raise would mean raising the $55 billion debt or cutting funding to other MInistries and employees. Which would you suggest? Teachers aren't exactly starving and some of them pick up extra money under the table tutoring. In B.C. we have many homeless people to consider.
 
talloola
#127
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I think the original demand was 15% over 3 years. The Gov't is in fact holding fast at zero, which in good times may be stupid and hopeless, but to give them a raise would mean raising the $55 billion debt or cutting funding to other MInistries and employees. Which would you suggest? Teachers aren't exactly starving and some of them pick up extra money under the table tutoring. In B.C. we have many homeless people to consider.

what is the situation about the 15% that was taken away from them last contract time by campbell.
what actually happened there.

maybe government elected employees could give up some of their bulging raises,
and 'share' a little????
yeah right, never in a thousand years, and it will happen again, doesn't matter
about the deficit or homeless people.
 
TenPenny
+1
#128
Quote:

maybe government elected employees could give up some of their bulging raises,
and 'share' a little????

Or retired people living on indexed pensions could share a little, too.
 
talloola
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

Or retired people living on indexed pensions could share a little, too.

if they can afford it, sure. we can't.
 
TenPenny
+1
#130
People are always happy to volunteer other people to make sacrifices, as long as they themselves don't have to.
 
JLM
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

People are always happy to volunteer other people to make sacrifices, as long as they themselves don't have to.

Hey, TP before you go yapping off as you normally do I've stated several times that if every person in my category (pensioner) would take a 10% cut I'll do the same thing.................but it has to be EVERYONE.
 
talloola
#132
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

People are always happy to volunteer other people to make sacrifices, as long as they themselves don't have to.

I'm remembering the huge raises, (without having to answer to anyone) that the politicians have given
'themselves', since I was a child, it is so obvious, and yet you and many others are bitter because
I receive and old age pension, which I cannot give back one cent.
If I had known that I would never have received this pension I would have planned my retirement in a
different way, but if it was taken away now, I would be without anything. I do not
receive any canada pension, as I was a stay at home mom.

How could you ever compare what I receive to the politician who take our money out of the budget
anytime they want to, and give themselves raises of any amount they want, and no one can do anything
about it.

And yet, the teachers are condemned because they are asking for a raise, they have to beg to the government,
can't give themselves anything, and probably will be given almost nothing.

The politicians treat them as if they are greedy, and as soon as no one is paying any attention, they
will stuff their bank accounts again, without asking us, or anyone else, and to hell with the homeless, or
anyone else who is going without.
No jlm, I will not give back 10%, I need all that I receive to make ends meet.

correction: I receive 1/2 of my husbands canada pension amount, that is a choice
given when one is applying, so we agreed to split it 50-50, and it has to stay
that way, can't change it, so if he passes on, I will continue to receive that
amount, but if I pass on he doesn't get his 1/2 back.
Last edited by talloola; Mar 9th, 2012 at 02:01 PM..
 
JLM
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

I'm remembering the huge raises, (without having to answer to anyone) that the politicians have given
'themselves', since I was a child, it is so obvious, and yet you and many others are bitter because
I receive and old age pension, which I cannot give back one cent.
If I had known that I would never have received this pension I would have planned my retirement in a
different way, but if it was taken away now, I would be without anything. I do not
receive any canada pension, as I was a stay at home mom.

How could you ever compare what I receive to the politician who take our money out of the budget
anytime they want to, and give themselves raises of any amount they want, and no one can do anything
about it.

And yet, the teachers are condemned because they are asking for a raise, they have to beg to the government,
can't give themselves anything, and probably will be given almost nothing.

The politicians treat them as if they are greedy, and as soon as no one is paying any attention, they
will stuff their bank accounts again, without asking us, or anyone else, and to hell with the homeless, or
anyone else who is going without.
No jlm, I will not give back 10%, I need all that I receive to make ends meet.

correction: I receive 1/2 of my husbands canada pension amount, that is a choice
given when one is applying, so we agreed to split it 50-50, and it has to stay
that way, can't change it, so if he passes on, I will continue to receive that
amount, but if I pass on he doesn't get his 1/2 back.

I would like to see the politicians salary scale for the past 20 years, I know the last one was horrendous to the point of being obscene, BUT I've also heard it said that it was the first raise in ten or more years and that they don't get the C.O.L.A. so I would like to find out just what the exact truth is. Speaking for myself about taking a 10% pension cut, it would reduce the income tax significantly and if the Gov't. was smart and put the savings toward healthcare, I'm wondering if the difference we would feel would be that great. But one thing for sure we have to hold these bastards' toes to the fire until we know for sure they are not lying! (Do fish swim, are the Kennedys gun shy?)
 
talloola
#134
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I would like to see the politicians salary scale for the past 20 years, I know the last one was horrendous to the point of being obscene, BUT I've also heard it said that it was the first raise in ten or more years and that they don't get the C.O.L.A. so I would like to find out just what the exact truth is. Speaking for myself about taking a 10% pension cut, it would reduce the income tax significantly and if the Gov't. was smart and put the savings toward healthcare, I'm wondering if the difference we would feel would be that great. But one thing for sure we have to hold these bastards' toes to the fire until we know for sure they are not lying! (Do fish swim, are the Kennedys gun shy?)

once they got your 10% back into their tight little fists, you would never know where it went, what
they tell us has nothing to do with the truth.
 
Mowich
+1
#135
I don't and never have agreed with the idea of putting special needs kids in the same classroom as other students especially when there are many ESL kids to deal with too. I watched my sister's health decline notably over the years once this change took place simply because of the burden the extra work put on her - one of the main burdens being the increased paperwork that had nothing to do with actual teaching and everything to do with reporting on how the special needs kids were getting along.

Her classroom was constantly being disrupted by kids who needed almost constant attention but were not given it due to lack of proper staff thus the onus fell on her to try and teach regular kids while babysitting others.

For 10 years she had her name on a list of teachers wanting to teach at a private school but finally gave up when she realized that her name had barely moved up the ladder in all that time because the private school held onto their good teachers and the bad were so few that it barely made a difference.

My sister was never a union person, did not attend rallies etc and paid her dues because she was forced to though she saw little benefit from doing so and when she needed the union to help her they did nothing but stonewall her.

I don't know what the solution is but taking special needs kids out the classroom and giving them their own environment might be a start.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I think Christy's leniency may cost her big time. She missed a chance to grab about 38% support across the province.

Well my 1% would not have been there, JLM.

I belong to the Angus Reid forum and yesterday we had a bunch of questions about the Christie government. I gave her failing marks on every single question. I can hardly wait for the election and this time it is the Conservatives who will get my vote.
 
JLM
#136
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

once they got your 10% back into their tight little fists, you would never know where it went, what
they tell us has nothing to do with the truth.

You are wise beyond your years.

Quote: Originally Posted by MowichView Post

I don't and never have agreed with the idea of putting special needs kids in the same classroom as other students especially when there are many ESL kids to deal with too. I watched my sister's health decline notably over the years once this change took place simply because of the burden the extra work put on her - one of the main burdens being the increased paperwork that had nothing to do with actual teaching and everything to do with reporting on how the special needs kids were getting along.
Her classroom was constantly being disrupted by kids who needed almost constant attention but were not given it due to lack of proper staff thus the onus fell on her to try and teach regular kids while babysitting others.
For 10 years she had her name on a list of teachers wanting to teach at a private school but finally gave up when she realized that her name had barely moved up the ladder in all that time because the private school held onto their good teachers and the bad were so few that it barely made a difference.
My sister was never a union person, did not attend rallies etc and paid her dues because she was forced to though she saw little benefit from doing so and when she needed the union to help her they did nothing but stonewall her.
I don't know what the solution is but taking special needs kids out the classroom and giving them their own environment might be a start.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
I hear you, I always thought mixing "special needs" kids with the mainstream was detrimental to both. I'm undecided about Christy, but I don't think she's quite as clever as she comes across to being. Conservatives would be a change, certainly couldn't be any worse than Dippers...................after Glen Clark's dismal performance, I'm surprised they have any support, but mostly I can't believe problems can be fixed by raising taxes..............throwing money at problems is rarely the best solution. (I'm going to try to locate that Angus Reid forum) so if you see someone on there who is slightly cheeky, that would be me.
 
Spade
#137
The school is a microcosm of society; differences must not only be tolerated, they must be celebrated. Integration is a teaching moment on acceptance and diversity. "Yes" to integration, "no" to large classrooms and teachers set adrift without support when special needs children are integrated.
 
L Gilbert
#138
It's a big spat between the gov't and the union with teachers and kids stuck in the middle. Unfairness is putting it mildly, Dex, but you're right, both stands are inane.

I agree with some disabled kids being integrated, but not all. I think it depends upon learning abilities, not whether students are disabled or not. Obviously kids in wheelchairs, kids with prosthetics are no less likely to learn than any other kids while kids with ADS or autism may not have such an easy time learning.
 
Bar Sinister
#139
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I somehow doubt if they will buy it- maybe $2.50 an hour!!


I expect you are right. However, interestingly enough the amounts I suggested are about what regular daycare costs. All I am simply putting the cost of hiring a highly trained professional in proper perspective.
 
skookumchuck
#140
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

I'm remembering the huge raises, (without having to answer to anyone) that the politicians have given
'themselves', since I was a child, it is so obvious, and yet you and many others are bitter because
I receive and old age pension, which I cannot give back one cent.
If I had known that I would never have received this pension I would have planned my retirement in a
different way, but if it was taken away now, I would be without anything. I do not
receive any canada pension, as I was a stay at home mom.

How could you ever compare what I receive to the politician who take our money out of the budget
anytime they want to, and give themselves raises of any amount they want, and no one can do anything
about it.

And yet, the teachers are condemned because they are asking for a raise, they have to beg to the government,
can't give themselves anything, and probably will be given almost nothing.

The politicians treat them as if they are greedy, and as soon as no one is paying any attention, they
will stuff their bank accounts again, without asking us, or anyone else, and to hell with the homeless, or
anyone else who is going without.
No jlm, I will not give back 10%, I need all that I receive to make ends meet.

correction: I receive 1/2 of my husbands canada pension amount, that is a choice
given when one is applying, so we agreed to split it 50-50, and it has to stay
that way, can't change it, so if he passes on, I will continue to receive that
amount, but if I pass on he doesn't get his 1/2 back.


Do you know that you will be given CPP credits for several years for each child you raised?
 
talloola
#141
Quote: Originally Posted by skookumchuckView Post

Do you know that you will be given CPP credits for several years for each child you raised?

no, I don't know about that at all, my four daughters now have grown children of their own.
 
JLM
#142
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Link please.

I'm still waiting or were you just blowing more smoke?
 
skookumchuck
#143
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

no, I don't know about that at all, my four daughters now have grown children of their own.

Look here The Canada Pension Plan Child-Rearing Provision (external - login to view)
 
talloola
#144
Quote: Originally Posted by skookumchuckView Post

Look here The Canada Pension Plan Child-Rearing Provision (external - login to view)

thank you, I will inquire:
 
Mowich
#145
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I hear you, I always thought mixing "special needs" kids with the mainstream was detrimental to both. I'm undecided about Christy, but I don't think she's quite as clever as she comes across to being. Conservatives would be a change, certainly couldn't be any worse than Dippers...................after Glen Clark's dismal performance, I'm surprised they have any support, but mostly I can't believe problems can be fixed by raising taxes..............throwing money at problems is rarely the best solution. (I'm going to try to locate that Angus Reid forum) so if you see someone on there who is slightly cheeky, that would be me.

https://www.angusreidforum.com/ (external - login to view)
I'll keep an eye out for you, JLM.
 
JLM
#146
Quote: Originally Posted by MowichView Post

https://www.angusreidforum.com/ (external - login to view)
I'll keep an eye out for you, JLM.

Yeah, I signed up but it appears to be mostly multiple choice questions!
 
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