B.C. School teachers - What would be fair?


JLM
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

A new B.C. teacher with the ink still damp on the degree and no experience pulls down about $47,000.00. The average salary for teachers in B.C. is close to $60,000.00. The maximum salary is around $75,000.00. The teachers are asking for fifteen percent which for the average teacher is about a $9000.00 per year increase. I think that would be a hefty raise in good times. With the government up to their neck in debt, demanding that kind of increase is completely selfish.

Just to keep the record straight I checked the salary scales on line and for most S.D.s the bottom rate was about $38,000. Not that great of a wage but if they are any good at all they should be able to move up from there pretty fast!

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Your math is off, it's 15% over three years, which is comprised of 3% cost of living increases each year for three years, with 3% market adjustments in year 2 and 3, it's not a $9000 per year increase.... If you use the average salary, next year the salary would be $63,000. The following year the salary would be $66,780. The final year of increase it would be $70,786.80.

And honestly I really doubt they think they will get 15%, that's just how negotiations work. Their salary will still be below other provinces, yet with the highest cost of living in the country.

NO- Negotiations DON'T work that way worth a sh*t. If you ask for something reasonable people will generally negotiate, if you come up with some hare brained request, you'll see their backside as they are going out the door.

Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

we pay for all kinds of services, but the teachers have to answer to the government, their bosses, as
we don't have a say, and if we did, perhaps we could be more reasonable, which would make them feel
they are at least being listened to, it seems there are far too many people instantly against them,
and begrudge them a good living, but they also want the best there is, teaching the students, can't have
it all.

Hire the best, pay them well, and put more energy into giving canadians a higher quality cirriculum, so
the teachers have better material to teach.

Instead the government wants to peel them back as much as they can, stop them from progressing, put them
in their place, then tell them to be good teachers, while treating them like second class citizens.

I guess we have to agree to disagree on this Talloola and for the following reasons.
1. The "Gov't" has no money, the same as anyone else who is $60 billion in debt.
2. It's not fair to the taxpayer, many of who are already struggling.
3. When you cost out the value of their salary, perks and time off from work, they are already earning almost $100,000 a year.
4. Teachers have to learn "they can't suck and blow at the same time".

Now having said all that, after determining who the good ones are and turfing the bad ones, if I was in charge, I'd say you examine the entire education budget and if you can find ways to save up to a maximum of 2%, you will receive that raise.

Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

BCTF president Susan Lambert made the announcement this morning, just hours after the union revealed its 41,000 members had voted 87 per cent in favour of a walkout.

Lambert says the strike will begin Monday and will continue through Wednesday, with students returning to classes on Thursday, March 8.

Don't you just get so sick and tired of seeing that Susan Lambert on the idiot box every 15 minutes during the evening news?
 
TenPenny
+1
#92
Am I reading that a retired civil servant, who collects a guaranteed pension, is claiming that the government is in debt and therefore no one should get a raise?

That's pretty goddam funny, that is.

Quite the attitude: 'I've got mine, you can go to hell'.

If you feel that the government is that badly in debt, stop cashing your fuking pension cheques.
 
JLM
+1
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

Am I reading that a retired civil servant, who collects a guaranteed pension, is claiming that the government is in debt and therefore no one should get a raise?

That's pretty goddam funny, that is.

Quite the attitude: 'I've got mine, you can go to hell'.

If you feel that the government is that badly in debt, stop cashing your fuking pension cheques.

Sorry Bucko, but I started putting money aside when I was 20 years old (money deducted from my pay cheque) for the expressed purpose of retirement. So maybe before you go shooting your f*****g trap off in future you might want to check your facts............A$$hole!
 
taxslave
+1
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

That doesn't sound at all like a lack of other job skills. Lack of job opportunities is not a lack of skills. Also the "lack of opportunities" in archaeology is merely not wanting to wander around the Earth from postdoc to postdoc on a meager salary before possibly landing an assistant professorship somewhere. It is the same for all academic careers in fact.

You'll have to explain what this test is to me that you are going on about. I'm not going to go out of my way to scrounge through every BC news organization's website on the off chance that they might actually give details at a level which explains why the teachers would be against the test.

The test I referred to is given to the students in 3 grades over the whole province. The idea is to see if all students are getting the minimum amount of education. The teachers don't like it because it can pinpoint poor teachers. I will see if I can find you a link later.
 
Tonington
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Sorry Bucko, but I started putting money aside when I was 20 years old (money deducted from my pay cheque) for the expressed purpose of retirement. So maybe before you go shooting your f*****g trap off in future you might want to check your facts............A$$hole!

But you're still a retired civil servant who collects a government pension, correct? You collect OAS too if I remember correctly, which means you get cost of living increases too, from a government with almost 10 times the debt of BC.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The test I referred to is given to the students in 3 grades over the whole province. The idea is to see if all students are getting the minimum amount of education. The teachers don't like it because it can pinpoint poor teachers. I will see if I can find you a link later.

Just a note, will the test be a relative score that considers the ratio of teachers to students? If it doesn't then I can certainly understand the resistance from the teachers. It would be a biased assessor of the quality of the instruction.
 
taxslave
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

A new B.C. teacher with the ink still damp on the degree and no experience pulls down about $47,000.00. The average salary for teachers in B.C. is close to $60,000.00. The maximum salary is around $75,000.00. The teachers are asking for fifteen percent which for the average teacher is about a $9000.00 per year increase. I think that would be a hefty raise in good times. With the government up to their neck in debt, demanding that kind of increase is completely selfish.

Plus a solid gold benny package.
 
JLM
+1
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The test I referred to is given to the students in 3 grades over the whole province. The idea is to see if all students are getting the minimum amount of education. The teachers don't like it because it can pinpoint poor teachers. I will see if I can find you a link later.

Yep, I read about that same thing a few years back. I remember back in grade 10 being in a Math class comprised of fairly bright students, of 30 or so students about 6 of us passed the course and nobody scored above 60%. It was no wonder absolutely no patience and spent half the time telling tales about his days in the army. But he was back the next year "teaching" again! So sh*t hasn't changed much in 50 years!
 
taxslave
#98
Student assessments:
www.bced.gov.ca/assment/fsa/
Last edited by taxslave; Mar 5th, 2012 at 10:07 PM..Reason: wrong link
 
Tonington
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Student assessments:
www.bc.gov.ca/assment/fsa/

Server not found.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Student assessments:
www.bced.gov.ca/assment/fsa/

This one doesn't work either.
 
JLM
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

But you're still a retired civil servant who collects a government pension, correct? You collect OAS too if I remember correctly, which means you get cost of living increases too, from a government with almost 10 times the debt of BC.


Yes, yes and yes, like every other Canadian past 65. Oooh you forgot C.P.P. (also funded by the employee) I started out being for the teachers getting a modest increase, BUT since then I've learned every other public employee in B.C. has already settled for zero. Everyone in the province was complaining about our Gov't.'s debt load, now a lot of the ones who were complaining about the debt load are now supporting the teachers. "Ya can't suck and blow at the same time" We are broke, we have to bring the debt down.
 
Tonington
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

We are broke

No you aren't...tax-payer supported debt at less than 19% of your provinces GDP...that's a hell of a lot better than Canadians in general, or the Federal Government for that matter.
 
taxslave
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Server not found.


This one doesn't work either.

I missed a couple of letters.

BC Ministry of Education - Foundation Skills Assessment (FSA)
If that doesn't work just go to the bc government website and follow the links.
 
JLM
+2
#103
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

No you aren't...tax-payer supported debt at less than 19% of your provinces GDP...that's a hell of a lot better than Canadians in general, or the Federal Government for that matter.

Yes we owe somewhere between $55 and $60 billion. A bunch of fancy math doesn't change a thing. We OWE the money and the taxpayer will be footing the bill.
 
Tonington
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yes we owe somewhere between $55 and $60 billion. A bunch of fancy math doesn't change a thing. We OWE the money and the taxpayer will be footing the bill.

Fancy math? You're conflating broke with owing money. You are not broke... Suddenly I'm skeptical that in a class of fairly bright students, the pass rate for a grade 10 math class was only 20%.

I mean would you call a man who makes $50,000 a year and only owes $12,000 a broke man?
 
JLM
#105
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Fancy math? You're conflating broke with owing money. You are not broke... Suddenly I'm skeptical that in a class of fairly bright students, the pass rate for a grade 10 math class was only 20%.

I mean would you call a man who makes $50,000 a year and only owes $12,000 a broke man?

You might be but many of those kids (not me) were "A" students in their other classes.
That same teacher also taught French and as I recall those kids didn't do very well either.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Sorry Bucko, but I started putting money aside when I was 20 years old (money deducted from my pay cheque) for the expressed purpose of retirement. So maybe before you go shooting your f*****g trap off in future you might want to check your facts............A$$hole!

I appreciate the "greenie"- got to thinking later I may have been a little harsh with the idiot!
 
TenPenny
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Sorry Bucko, but I started putting money aside when I was 20 years old (money deducted from my pay cheque) for the expressed purpose of retirement. So maybe before you go shooting your f*****g trap off in future you might want to check your facts............A$$hole!

So, you don't collect any pension at all, and never got a raise during your working life.

You're a saint, you are.
 
JLM
#107
I've been mulling this situation over a little more, and have come to the conclusion that generally speaking a C.O.L.A. is good and then on further consideration I find "a fly in the ointment". It depends on the standard of living of the particular year it is tied to. Are we in fact trying to keep pace with a year when we were living "high on the hog"?

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

So, you don't collect any pension at all, and never got a raise during your working life.

You're a saint, you are.

Yep, I collect three pensions, two of which I directly funded myself. Do you not plan on collecting pensions when you retire?
 
TenPenny
+1
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I've been mulling this situation over a little more, and have come to the conclusion that generally speaking a C.O.L.A. is good and then on further consideration I find "a fly in the ointment". It depends on the standard of living of the particular year it is tied to. Are we in fact trying to keep pace with a year when we were living "high on the hog"?



Yep, I collect three pensions, two of which I directly funded myself. Do you not plan on collecting pensions when you retire?

I don't have a pension. I make my own way in life, and I have funded my future retirement through savings. I have never worked in a place with a pension plan.

It's quite funny to see someone who used to suck off the *** of government complaining about people sucking off the *** of government.
 
JLM
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I don't have a pension. I make my own way in life, and I have funded my future retirement through savings. I have never worked in a place with a pension plan.

It's quite funny to see someone who used to suck off the *** of government complaining about people sucking off the *** of government.

Don't be such a bloody hypocrite! Unless you plan on refusing O.A.P. when you are 65. So you make your own way in life, B.F.D. but it's rather presumptuous to conclude that others don't.

Just heard on the news the teachers have started picketing in Victoria- keep your eyes peeled for an all out Donnybrook. Maybe the Gov't. is going to have to review their position. I think those huge raises the politicians helped themselves to a couple of years back may come back to haunt them.
 
TenPenny
+1
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Don't be such a bloody hypocrite! Unless you plan on refusing O.A.P. when you are 65. So you make your own way in life, B.F.D. but it's rather presumptuous to conclude that others don't.

Some people get awfully testy when their hypocrisy is trotted out, I see.
 
JLM
#111
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

Some people get awfully testy when their hypocrisy is trotted out, I see.

Link please.
 
Spade
#112
People did not evolve to work. Granted, some time, by necessity, must be spent plucking fruit from trees. scrounging for carrion, and raising children. However, most time should be leisure. More play, less work!

Needless to say, our society has forgotten this simple truth. Educators (aka teachers) should be commissioned to reintroduce humanity to hunting and gathering, and especially play. These teachers, while money still existed, would be paid the highest salaries, as our continued existence requires it.

Spare the teacher, spoil the child.
Nap anyone?
 
JLM
#113
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

People did not evolve to work. Granted, some time, by necessity, must be spent plucking fruit from trees. scrounging for carrion, and raising children. However, most time should be leisure. More play, less work!

Needless to say, our society has forgotten this simple truth. Educators (aka teachers) should be commissioned to reintroduce humanity to hunting and gathering, and especially play. These teachers, while money still existed, would be paid the highest salaries, as our continued existence requires it.

Spare the teacher, spoil the child.
Nap anyone?

"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy".
 
Spade
#114
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

"All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy".


"You said it!"
- JC
 
talloola
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Just heard on the news the teachers have started picketing in Victoria- keep your eyes peeled for an all out Donnybrook. Maybe the Gov't. is going to have to review their position. I think those huge raises the politicians helped themselves to a couple of years back may come back to haunt them.

bingo
 
Niflmir
#116
I note that the amount of the BC government spent on education this year (Budget 2012 - Province of British Columbia) is fixed at 27% relative to last year (Budget 2011 - Province of British Columbia) with an increase in the total budget of 1.8%. I also note that they expect increases of 2.2% and 2.5% in the following years. So in 3 years, one should expect the salaries to raise by 7% at least (assuming the inflation rate is compounded to allow an allotment for more teachers as the population increases).

And that is just the inflationary raises, which should just be an inalienable feature of all contracts.

If they are running a deficit, the reasonable thing to do would be a global contraction of the budget, not an expansion of the budget without wage increases. Where is that extra money going if they aren't increasing wages?
 
JLM
+1
#117
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

I note that the amount of the BC government spent on education this year (Budget 2012 - Province of British Columbia) is fixed at 27% relative to last year (Budget 2011 - Province of British Columbia) with an increase in the total budget of 1.8%. I also note that they expect increases of 2.2% and 2.5% in the following years. So in 3 years, one should expect the salaries to raise by 7% at least (assuming the inflation rate is compounded to allow an allotment for more teachers as the population increases).

And that is just the inflationary raises, which should just be an inalienable feature of all contracts.

If they are running a deficit, the reasonable thing to do would be a global contraction of the budget, not an expansion of the budget without wage increases. Where is that extra money going if they aren't increasing wages?

You've said a lot, wages are only a percentage of the budget. Like with most jobs, labour is approximately half and parts are approximately half (with profit added to both). With the provincial budget, my guess is a big portion goes to paying down debt and another big portion goes to paying the interest. There is one main theme to this whole situation, "you can not draw water out of a well faster than the well can recover"- a very simple concept really and I don't understand why teachers (supposedly an intelligent and educated bunch) can not understand that. Even a dumby like me has no problem with it.

Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

bingo

Sure be nice if it was that simple eh. There is one problem, the politicians raises although substantial, greedy and in poor taste, could be repaid 100 times over and it still wouldn't amount to what it would take to satisfy 41,000 teachers. It's only a matter of principal and setting an example, otherwise doesn't accomplish a great deal, except maybe improving our mood.
 
talloola
#118
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

You've said a lot, wages are only a percentage of the budget. Like with most jobs, labour is approximately half and parts are approximately half (with profit added to both). With the provincial budget, my guess is a big portion goes to paying down debt and another big portion goes to paying the interest. There is one main theme to this whole situation, "you can not draw water out of a well faster than the well can recover"- a very simple concept really and I don't understand why teachers (supposedly an intelligent and educated bunch) can not understand that. Even a dumby like me has no problem with it.



Sure be nice if it was that simple eh. There is one problem, the politicians raises although substantial, greedy and in poor taste, could be repaid 100 times over and it still wouldn't amount to what it would take to satisfy 41,000 teachers. It's only a matter of principal and setting an example, otherwise doesn't accomplish a great deal, except maybe improving our mood.

it sure shows their colours though, shows how greedy they are, shows how they can take take, without
having to answer to anyone, and makes a great point to all of us, and makes us disrespect them all the more.
It really shows up when they nit pick the teachers, especially when campbell dealt with them.
 
JLM
#119
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

it sure shows their colours though, shows how greedy they are, shows how they can take take, without
having to answer to anyone, and makes a great point to all of us, and makes us disrespect them all the more.
It really shows up when they nit pick the teachers, especially when campbell dealt with them.

You certainly have that right, but all politicians have those same characteristics, just as a skunk has it's characteristics!
 
taxslave
+3
#120
And today the teachers and their supporters in other militant government unions denied taxpayers their right to accessing government services by picketing government offices that have nothing to do with education. In one news clip a government worker was shown physically blocking taxpayers from entering a building they own. Just one more reason why government employees must not have the right to strike.
 
no new posts