Nanny State gone Mad!!! Gun drawing causes arrest....


earth_as_one
+1
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Do you have a link for that or did you just add the part in red???????

Edited to add: As per your usual M.O.

Kitchener officials sticking to their guns | Ontario | News | Toronto Sun

I know how polite you are and that you didn't mean to sound rude or hostile. I know that when your baseless accusations are proven unfounded you always apologize. That's OK DS, apology accepted.
 
lone wolf
+1
#62
So is it illegal to have a plastic see-through gun that fires darts?

Over-reaction makes victims wealthy....
 
earth_as_one
#63
As a general rule, replicas made out of clear plastic and those that are a lot smaller than the real firearm are not prohibited replicas. Those that are brightly coloured might be prohibited, depending on other features. Also accurate replicas of antique firearms are legal.
 
CDNBear
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Over-reaction makes victims wealthy....

Under-reaction makes the kneejerks, jerk knees.

Having seen the usual reaction, to inaction, in the past.

I can empathize with the teacher, Child Services, and the Officers involved.
 
bobnoorduyn
+1
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

My point about the complaint being about a black man in the Jane and Finch area is that who and where the person lives makes no difference. The police must react the same way. They can't make assumptions based on race and neighborhood.

It is because idiots make the rules. In reality, the police should act differently when investigating a complaint in the Jane-Finch area as opposed to more affluent locales, unless of course they are as brain dead as the Waterloo force. It is not a matter of lettting your guard down, it is a reflection of reality. This is why Israeli airport security is so much more efficient than what we have; they are allowed to use profiling based on traits our useful idiots abhor. When I made deliveries to places on Scarlett Rd., Dixington, Jane-Eglinton, Widdicome, I took extra precautions that I wouldn't elseware. (And I won't say what those were)






Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

A police officer gets a report of a 4 year old child playing with a hand gun by the neighbor's 4 year old kid.

Should they:

a) enter the house without a search warrant

b) take a number at the court house and after a few hours, they get their warrant to search the house

c) do nothing, reports of 4 year olds playing with handguns by other children shouldn't be taken seriously

Easy checklist for an idiot to follow, We have thrown reasonability out the window in favour of "what if's", If the educators, child welfare workers and police are all to operate as automatons we night as well just build robots to replace them, because that is what we expect of them and that is what they have become.
 
lone wolf
+3
#66
Sorry.... I've dealt with Children's Services. They tend to go off half-cocked on folk who seem least likely to sue - folk who haven't been involved - but take the time to carefully investigate and be sure their ducks are all in a neat row in serious matters.

Maybe the teacher should have asked some questions before her alarm went haywire
 
DaSleeper
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Kitchener officials sticking to their guns | Ontario | News | Toronto Sun

I know how polite you are and that you didn't mean to sound rude or hostile. I know that when your baseless accusations are proven unfounded you always apologize. That's OK DS, apology accepted.

Thank you......
I would hope that you would by now post links with statements
 
CDNBear
+6
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Sorry.... I've dealt with Children's Services. They tend to go off half-cocked on folk who seem least likely to sue - folk who haven't been involved - but take the time to carefully investigate and be sure their ducks are all in a neat row in serious matters.

So have I, your assessment is bang on, from my experiences as well.

Given examples of them falling short on their duties, they have become even more intrusive and irrational, in recent years.

Quote:

Maybe the teacher should have asked some questions before her alarm went haywire

From what I gather, she did ask questions. They were likely very uninformed and uneducated questions. Thus leading to an erroneous conclusion.

Don't mistake my position as defending the over all actions here. They were well out side what should be considered appropriate.

But like I said, I can fully understand why they reacted in such a way. Self preservation. Given the fall out they would face, if they did not react, they chose to err (Albeit, overboard) on the side of caution.

That's what happens when the squeaky public loses their collective sh!t, when firearms are involved.

Somewhere in all this madness, there is a happy medium.
 
L Gilbert
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

So if I understand the source of your ridicule, if a little girl told you that she plays with her Daddy's gun, you would do nothing because 4 year olds claims about playing with handguns shouldn't be taken seriously.

Would anyone else react differently? How would you expect the police to react?

First off, the kid drew the gun and had said her dad shoots monsters with it. That would indicate to any kid, let alone reasoning adult, that the dad plays video games. Secondly, clarifying things with the kid before leaping to stupid assumptions would be the rational thing to do. Thirdly, cops could also have verified things with the kid. There's more but that should be enough.
All in all, this is a kneejerk reaction from some pretty stupid people.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

"Ifs"?

Quote:

Yes 'ifs', because we used our judgment based on 'ifs', daily.

And apparently ifs are overly frequent in forum discussions, too.

Quote:

Wrong.

I agree. But if .....

Quote:

My point was, that is anything did happen, people would be looking for peoples heads.

I got that. But people also tend to kneejerk a lot before thinking.

Quote:

I agree with both thoughts, completely.

Fixed that for you.
 
PoliticalNick
+4
#70
I'm still completely shocked by this whole thing.

First the whole reaction to an image of a gun for hunting monsters in a 4 year old's crayon should only be interpreted as make believe or part of a game. Any sane person with an IQ slightly larger than a shoebox would or should understand that.

Second it is a complete overreaction and in my opinion a false arrest of the father and unlawful detainment of the mother and I really hope they sue the a** of all involved.

Third, as far as I know there is still nothing in the Consolidated Constitution Acts that says we citizens cannot own firearms. In fact the only ones that tell us we can't are those that want to maintain power and control of us.

Finally.....WTF??? These teachers and administrators co-parent our children??? I wouldn't let most of them co-parent a goldfish and while others may be okay with that attitude I for one say an emphatic NO!! Their mother and I are my children's parents and only us. If anyone wants to dispute that there will be a huge problem in their lives.

This has just reached the height of ridiculousness as the 'nanny state' and 'big brother' try to take over our lives completely.
 
shadowshiv
+1
#71
The idiocy just boggles the mind! I guess when I drew an alien when I was little, that meant that my parents weren't from around here! I'm surprised that we didn't end up in Area 51!
 
lone wolf
+1
#72
What makes you so sure you didn't?
 
shadowshiv
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

What makes you so sure you didn't?

I always thought you were a G-Man.
 
Colpy
+2
#74
Good Lord! McGuinty proves yet again that he is a complete moron...

Ontario premier defends probe of girl's gun drawing | CTV Toronto

And a little more Ezra.......

Ezra Levant & Kris Sims: Who's Got The Gun? - YouTube (external - login to view)!
 
wulfie68
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Good Lord! McGuinty proves yet again that he is a complete moron...

Ontario premier defends probe of girl's gun drawing | CTV Toronto

And a little more Ezra.......

Ezra Levant & Kris Sims: Who's Got The Gun? - YouTube (external - login to view)!

You're not really surprised are you?
 
earth_as_one
+1
#76
C'mon guys, do you really believe that a drawing of a gun alone cause the police reaction? I'm critical of the police reaction too, but I don't believe that a drawing alone caused the police to believe the father illegally possessed an illegally stored hand gun. That said, I don't think the police asked enough questions first before handcuffing the father and strip searching him.
 
lone wolf
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Good Lord! McGuinty proves yet again that he is a complete moron...

Ontario premier defends probe of girl's gun drawing | CTV Toronto

And a little more Ezra.......

Ezra Levant & Kris Sims: Who's Got The Gun? - YouTube (external - login to view)!

Funny, huh? He's digging the same sort of foxholes as Harper and Teows....
 
wulfie68
+4
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

C'mon guys, do you really believe that a drawing of a gun alone cause the police reaction? I'm critical of the police reaction too, but I don't believe that a drawing alone caused the police to believe the father illegally possessed an illegally stored hand gun. That said, I don't think the police asked enough questions first before handcuffing the father and strip searching him.

Well if it wasn't the drawing of the gun, it was the subsequent discussions with a 4 yr old (and I am curious how the law comes in on talking to a child in these circumstances without permission of a parent, because I sure as hell would not trust a teacher to act as a guardian in any legal circumstance unless I knew them VERY well).

This episode shows how systemically f***ed up things are in Ontario (and possibly other provinces):
- the teacher blew it in her overreaction
- the principal blew it in not getting more facts and intervening
- social services blew it, with the way they handled it
- the cops blew it, not only in jumping the gun on the arrest and strip search, but there are allegations they did not even tell him what the prospective charges were... which would be a blatant violation of his rights under Canadian criminal law.

Now some of the mistakes are forgivable on their own, some are not and the way the situation snowballed without someone stepping back and doing a critical assessment of exactly what they were looking at, shows a system that was a SNAFU waiting to happen... and that falls on McGuinty's gov't.

Now Mr Sansone deserves to a substantial settlement (including an apology) from the Ont. gov't.
 
Angstrom
-1
#79
Imagine. Harper is handing over more money to the RCMP. Great!. We are all doomed.
 
DaSleeper
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by AngstromView Post

Imagine. Harper is handing over more money to the RCMP. Great!. We are all doomed.

Are you in the right thread??????????
 
L Gilbert
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Good Lord! McGuinty proves yet again that he is a complete moron...

Ontario premier defends probe of girl's gun drawing | CTV Toronto

Yeah well, we all know stuff about Dolty McSquinty. He's right up there in the sharp-as-a-bowling-ball category.
 
Angstrom
-1
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Are you in the right thread??????????

No way! this is great example of why Police already have to much money and nothing better to do.

We need to cut there budget 10% minimum.
 
L Gilbert
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

C'mon guys, do you really believe that a drawing of a gun alone cause the police reaction? I'm critical of the police reaction too, but I don't believe that a drawing alone caused the police to believe the father illegally possessed an illegally stored hand gun. That said, I don't think the police asked enough questions first before handcuffing the father and strip searching him.

Got more info that we don't?
 
shadowshiv
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Good Lord! McGuinty proves yet again that he is a complete moron...

Ontario premier defends probe of girl's gun drawing | CTV Toronto

And a little more Ezra.......

Ezra Levant & Kris Sims: Who's Got The Gun? - YouTube (external - login to view)!

I certainly didn't need to read those articles to know that McGuinty is a complete moron. He's harder to get rid of than cockroaches!
 
Niflmir
#85
I find this mildly less screwed up than the teacher that had her student charged with making child pornography.

The crux of this whole issue, since when is a 4 year old a reliable witness? I don't think they can even be placed on a witness stand.
 
CDNBear
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

The crux of this whole issue, since when is a 4 year old a reliable witness? I don't think they can even be placed on a witness stand.

It's been done.
 
Colpy
+3
#87
Quote:

On the Keystone Kops side, if police took the girl's now-vanished doodle of her father fighting monsters and bad guys seriously, why not search his home for villains, or werewolves, before a gun? And why handcuff Jesse Sansone then strip-search him, including making him lift his personal bits? Don't cops know a gun won't fit down there? Did they also check his armpit for a tank, or his ear for a sword?
On the Big Nurse side, the police arrested Sansone for illegal possession of a firearm without any credible evidence he even had a gun, let alone illegally. They "walked through" his home without a warrant. Social services grabbed his three eldest children and interrogated his pregnant wife. And they are unrepentant.
Waterloo Regional School district superintendant Gregg Bereznick told QMI Agency's Kris Sims: "We do work hand-in-hand with these families because we co-parent, so we hope that we could move forward."
Co-parent? Neither Sansone nor anyone else ever went on one knee to his beloved then invited the school board into the marriage as co-parent. And the state clearly regards parents as subordinates, not partners. Note how Leviathan's tentacles converge on hapless citizens like Sansone, from school boards to social services to police and beyond.

Quote has been trimmed
Sun News : When the state raises your kids, you don't (external - login to view)

Co-parent???

I wouldn't let that idiot principle co-parent my guppy.

the state really needs to get out of our lives.
 
shadowshiv
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

I find this mildly less screwed up than the teacher that had her student charged with making child pornography.

I don't think I've heard about this case. Where did this occur, Niflmir?
 
Colpy
+2
#89
Jessie Sansone: Plenty of mistakes made, but no lessons learned in treatment of man arrested for daughter's gun drawing | Full Comment | National Post

Not really a "debate".......but interesting.

Lorne Gunther gets it right as usual......
 
taxslave
+2
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Sun News : When the state raises your kids, you don't (external - login to view)

Co-parent???

I wouldn't let that idiot principle co-parent my guppy.

the state really needs to get out of our lives.

But look at how many useless bureaucraps got to justify their otherwise useless and expensive existence.
 

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