Elizabeth Warren - The Two Income Trap:


Tonington
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's your math bub. In the real world you can't have a positive until the negative is eliminated. I did notice similarities but more importantly I can grasp the differences which mandate the need for two terms to describe two seperate scenarios. Someday maybe you will.

No, you are definitely math challenged. The negative from a recession is the change, or derivative. Consecutive quarters with negative growth. The American economy is not at negative GDP or jobs, it lost some sure, measured as a % change. You can't have a total workforce of -100,000, that is a nonsense figure, you can have a loss of 100,000 jobs, sure. Or a gain of 100,000 jobs...now it's gaining, that's a positive derivative. That is growth, and it is also recovery.

In the real world, economists track changes in this way. While an economy is recovering it is adding jobs, it is adding GDP, it is growing again. Economists track the economic activity in a nation by looking at the trajectory of the economy. It's growing when the economy is adding new jobs, and adding to GDP. Whether or not it is a recovery or not, an economy can still be measured in terms of growth or contraction.

That's it for me, I'm bored with this thread jack now.
 
petros
+1
#62
Quote:


It's growing when the economy is adding new jobs, and adding to GDP.

Nooo it's recovering old jobs and lost GDP. When it surpasses the losses it will be growing.
 
Tonington
#63
The U.S. economy will grow faster in 2012 — if it isn't knocked off track by upheavals in Europe, according to an Associated Press survey of leading economists.

Unemployment will barely fall from the current 8.6 percent rate, though, by the time President Barack Obama runs for re-election in November, the economists say.

The three dozen private, corporate and academic economists expect the economy to grow 2.4 percent next year. In 2011, it likely grew less than 2 percent.

The year is ending on an upswing. The economy has generated at least 100,000 new jobs for five months in a row — the longest such streak since 2006.
Economists see growth picking up in new year - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com (external - login to view)
 
petros
+1
#64
In proper terms......The U.S. economy will RECOVER faster in 2012.
 
L Gilbert
+2
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's an economy stupid. They don't "grow" until they surpass the benchmark prior to losses.

I hope you old lady manages your money.

So the economy will likely never grow, according to you because it likely will never reach the peak it did around the end of WW2. roflmao
And a skink won't experience growth ever again after losing its tail once.
Unemployment didn't grow in 2008, it only recovered.
F'ing hilarious.

www.investopedia.com/terms/e/...#axzz1nQHkmP00 (external - login to view)
Last edited by L Gilbert; Feb 25th, 2012 at 01:33 PM..
 
petros
+1
#66
Yeah it is ****ing hillarious. You just never give up no matter how ****ing wrong you are but I admire you tenacity.
 
L Gilbert
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Yeah it is ****ing hillarious. You just never give up no matter how ****ing wrong you are but I admire you tenacity.

Your opinion. Mine is that you are wrong.
 
petros
#68
You be in great shape if I were wrong.
 
L Gilbert
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You be in great shape if I were wrong.

I am and you are, but I don't hold that against you.
 
petros
#70
LOL...How cute.
 
L Gilbert
+2
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

LOL...How cute.

Yeah, wife thinks I am cute, too. Um, just in case you have ideas, though, I am hetero.
 
petros
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Yeah, wife thinks I am cute, too. Um, just in case you have ideas, though, I am hetero.

I'm hetro as well even if I weren't, cute or not, I'd stay the hell away strictly based on your perceptions of "growth" and extra the toe.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I'm hetro as well even if I weren't, cute or not, I'd stay the hell away strictly based on your perceptions of "growth" and extra the toe.

Boy, am I glad to read that! I wouldn't want to catch that "screwy logic" affliction of yours.
Hair doesn't grow, right? It only recovers?

https://members.weforum.org/pdf/ict/...r%20Growth.pdf (external - login to view)

www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226216741240 (external - login to view)

European growth and renewal: The path from crisis to recovery | McKinsey Global Institute | Productivity, Competitiveness, & Growth | McKinsey & Company (external - login to view)
 
petros
#74
Hair? Scewy logic? Can hair loss go into a negative?
 
L Gilbert
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Hair? Scewy logic? Can hair loss go into a negative?

You think cutting your hair off adds to it? roflmao
 
petros
#76
That's what you're trying to tell me and hair isn't an economy is it?
 
L Gilbert
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That's what you're trying to tell me and hair isn't an economy is it?

You cutting off your hair means you are losing it. The stuff cut is gone but it starts growing on your head again. Whatever amount you had before is irrelevant to it growing back.
Like I said, according to your idiotic reasoning, the economy will likely never grow again after the peak it reached after WW2.
Last edited by L Gilbert; Feb 25th, 2012 at 04:21 PM..
 
petros
+1
#78
Quote:


You cutting off your hair means you are losing it. The stuff cut is gone but
it starts growing on your head again

GDP isn't the end all be all. It's an economy. What happens when you throw in inflation and other heavy hitters that make up the over all positive and negatives of an economy?

Sticking with your "hair" thing, how do you go into a negative? Tear out the roots and tissue of the scalp?
 
L Gilbert
+1
#79
Jeeeeez. Haircut = the negative. I'm not surprised that you seem to think getting rid of hair isn't a negative impact on its quantity.
"Wayne Swan said yesterday's official national accounts, showing that the economy grew by 1 per cent in the September quarter and at an annual rate of almost 5 per cent over the past six months, were the best set of growth figures he had seen since Australia emerged from the global financial crisis." www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226216741240 (external - login to view) AU still hasn't reached its previous economic level, though.

"Europe is growing again, but the recovery is uneven and under threat from the continuing eurozone debt crisis. Europe has significant strengths on which to build but needs to address profound long-term challenges that could limit its future growth. MGI sets out a perspective on where the European economy stands today, the challenges it faces, and the very considerable strengths on which it can build. MGI also sets out seven priorities for action. Each requires joint action by policy makers and business leaders." European growth and renewal: The path from crisis to recovery | McKinsey Global Institute | Productivity, Competitiveness, & Growth | McKinsey & Company (external - login to view) It's still not as healthy as it was.


GDP growth is a good indicator of economic growth.
 
petros
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

GDP growth is a good indicator of economic growth.

GDP regrowth and recovery is great if it starts to improve maybe it can regain ground and eventually grow.
 
L Gilbert
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

GDP regrowth and recovery is great if it starts to improve maybe it can regain ground and eventually grow.

lmao Oh, but regrowth can't be growth. At least according to your twist.
And how can regrowth and recovery not be an improvement?
 
petros
+1
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

lmao Oh, but regrowth can't be growth. At least according to your twist.
And how can regrowth and recovery not be an improvement?

I never said it wasn't. You just did.

Regrowth is replacing something that already existed, growth is expansion beyond the benchmark.
 
L Gilbert
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I never said it wasn't. You just did.

Nope.

Quote:

Regrowth is replacing something that already existed, growth is expansion beyond the benchmark.

Regrowth is still growth.
A skink loses its tail to a predator and grows a new one.
Your hair gets cut off. It grows new hair.
A tree loses its leaves in the fall. It doesn't pick the leaves up and replace them in the spring, It grows new ones.
An economy takes a plunge and starts growing again.
That's regrowth.
The only way an economy can recover is if it starts growing again.
 
petros
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Nope.

Regrowth is still growth.
A skink loses its tail to a predator and grows a new one.
Your hair gets cut off. It grows new hair.
A tree loses its leaves in the fall. It doesn't pick the leaves up and replace them in the spring, It grows new ones.
An economy takes a plunge and starts growing again.
That's regrowth.
The only way an economy can recover is if it starts growing again.

Regrowth is regrowth and growth is growth.

Predator? Who ate the economy?

Your hair grew, was cut and regrew. You don't have "new hair". It's the same hair that regrew.

Economies don't shed leaves.

An economy takes a plunge and starts recovering. That's regrowth. HOLY **** you almost got one!
 
L Gilbert
#85
"World economic growth is expected to slow next year, with recent turbulence in financial markets triggered by the fallout from the U.S. subprime mortgage market clouding prospects, the IMF said in the October 2007 World Economic Outlook (WEO) released on October 17." IMF Survey: IMF Forecasts Slower World Growth in 2008 (external - login to view)

"Global growth in 2009 is expected to fall to percent when measured in terms of purchasing power parity and to turn negative when measured in terms of market exchange rates (Table 1.1 and Figure 1, view: Data Figure 1). This represents a downward revision of about 1 percentage point from the November 2008 WEO Update. Helped by continued efforts to ease credit strains as well as expansionary fiscal and monetary policies, the global economy is projected to experience a gradual recovery in 2010, with growth picking up to 3 percent." IMF World Economic Outlook (WEO) Update -- Global Economic Slump Challenges Policies, January 2009 (external - login to view)

"The world economy is stabilizing, helped by unprecedented macroeconomic and financial policy support. However, the recession is not over and the recovery is likely to be sluggish. Following a disappointing first quarter, during which the global economy contracted almost as fast as during the fourth quarter of 2008, (Figure 1, Data Figure 1), high-frequency data point to a return to modest growth at the global level (Figure 2, Data Figure " IMF World Economic Outlook (WEO) Update -- Contractionary Forces Receding But Weak Recovery Ahead, July 2009 (external - login to view)

"Following the deepest global downturn in recent history, economic growth solidified and broadened to advanced economies in the second half of 2009. "
"Recovery is proceeding at varying speeds
Output in the advanced economies is now expected to expand by 2 percent in 2010, following a sharp decline in output in 2009. The new forecast reflects an upward revision of 3/4 percentage point. In 2011, growth is projected to edge up further to 2 percent. In spite of the revision, the recovery in advanced economies is still expected to be weak by historical standards, with real output remaining below its pre-crisis level until late 2011. Moreover, high unemployment rates and public debt, as well as not-fully-healed financial systems, and in some countries, weak household balance sheets are presenting further challenges to the recovery in these economies.
Growth in emerging and developing economies is expected to rise to about 6 percent in 2010, following a modest 2 percent in 2009. The new projection reflects an upward revision of almost 1 percentage point. In 2011, output is projected to accelerate further. Stronger economic frameworks and swift policy responses have helped many emerging economies to cushion the impact of the unprecedented external shock and quickly re-attract capital flows.
Within both groups, growth performance is expected to vary considerably across countries and regions, reflecting different initial conditions, external shocks, and policy responses. For instance, key emerging economies in Asia are leading the global recovery. A few advanced European economies and a number of economies in central and eastern Europe and the Commonwealth of Independent States are lagging behind. The rebound of commodity prices is helping support growth in commodity producers in all regions. Many developing countries in sub-Saharan Africa that experienced only a mild slowdown in 2009 are well placed to recover in 2010. Growth paths are diverse for advanced economies as well." IMF World Economic Outlook (WEO) Update -- A Policy-Driven, Multispeed Recovery, January 2010 (external - login to view)

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Your hair grew, was cut and regrew. You don't have "new hair". It's the same hair that regrew.

roflmao Yeah, ok. You don't grow new hair. Somehow the old hair that you cut off gets back into your head and sprouts all over again. No new hair cells there. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
 
Tonington
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

In proper terms......The U.S. economy will RECOVER faster in 2012.

If they were talking about recovery, then the numbers reported wouldn't be the same now would they? They are reporting growth in real time, not against the pre-recession values...how fast is the economy recovering? They use the measures reported like I've said all along, in terms of GDP growth rate, or how many jobs are being added. Not regrowth. The pre-recession value of GDP or jobs is entirely arbitrary for measuring how fast the economy is expanding in real time.
 
petros
#87
Is it possible to have an incredible GDP using automated or slave labour and an absolutely nonexistant economy?
 
Angstrom
+2
#88
Sweet baby Jesus! LOL
 
L Gilbert
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Is it possible to have an incredible GDP using automated or slave labour and an absolutely nonexistant economy?

Red herrings. Figures.
 
petros
#90
Mmmmm pickled red herring. GDP is a ****ty gauge of an economy recovering from and still on the brink of recession.

The WWII stats you refer to are misleading considering USA, Canada and Australia didn't have their industries and agri blown to bits over 6 years.
 

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