Courage????

Goober
#1
Acts of courage. Everyday acts and those that can stun the world. Where one act of courage, the young man whose act of suicide started the Arab Spring.

He is another story from a time forgotten by many and denied by a large swath of so called humanity as never happening, or numbers ain't right.

This thread is for those, many who die that when confronted with tragic events, they put their lives at risk to save others.

Heroines of Auschwitz


On Jan. 27, 1945, 67 years ago today, the Soviet Army liberated Auschwitz. From 1942 to late 1944, the concentration camp became the center of the wholesale murder of European Jewry. There were others - Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, Belzec, Majdanek, to name just a few. But it was Auschwitz that was to become the archetype of genocide. The gas chambers of Auschwitz took the lives of an estimated 1.1 million people, almost a million of them Jews.

Yet within Auschwitz's horror there were unique acts of bravery from which we must always take heart. The courage of Anna (Wajcblum) Heilman and the women of the Auschwitz munitions factory is one such story.

By mid 1944, the inmates knew that Germany was losing the war. Believing they would die anyway, Anna and her friends wanted to find a way to fight back, to give their deaths meaning. Ester, Anna, and a few other female prisoners began to smuggle gunpowder from the factory, a tiny amount at a time, hidden in their kerchiefs or sleeves. Being caught meant instant execution.

The young women gave the smuggled gunpowder to a young Polish Jew named Rosa Robota, who in turn passed it on to the Sonderkommando, a detail of Jewish male slave crematoria workers. These Sonderkommando included Soviet prisoners of war who knew how to make improvised explosives.

On Oct. 7, 1944, the Sonderkommando revolted, attacking the SS with stones, axes and homemade grenades produced from the smuggled gunpowder.

Several SS were killed. One of the four crematoria was severely damaged by the improvised explosives. It was never used again, saving many lives. The Sonderkommando were all killed.

The SS traced the gunpowder back to the munitions plant. Anna's sister Ester and three other young women, Ala Gertner, Rosa Robota and Regina Safirstajn, were tortured for months by the SS. But they gave up only the names of the Sonderkommando, who were already dead. They did not betray Anna or the others involved.
 
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Cliffy
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Acts of courage. Everyday acts and those that can stun the world. Where one act of courage, the young man whose act of suicide started the Arab Spring.

He is another story from a time forgotten by many and denied by a large swath of so called humanity as never happening,

I find it interesting that those that see heroism in the Arab Spring movement were also the loudest to shout against the occupy movement. Many of those people risked life and limb against police brutality for something they believed in and were passionate about. I guess double standards are the measure of today's idealism and political rhetoric.

I chose to salute their selfless bravery in the face of such overwhelming odds, brutality and opposition. Heroes one and all.
 
EagleSmack
+5
#3  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I find it interesting that those that see heroism in the Arab Spring movement were also the loudest to shout against the occupy movement. Many of those people risked life and limb against police brutality for something they believed in and were passionate about. I guess double standards are the measure of today's idealism and political rhetoric.
.

Comparing the Arab Spring to a bunch of hippies, druggies, and rich whinny brats?

How is that Occupy Movement doing anyhow?
 
Cliffy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Comparing the Arab Spring to a bunch of hippies, druggies, and rich whinny brats?

How is that Occupy Movement doing anyhow?

Now that is exactly what I'm talking about. Who were the people getting beat up and killed in Egypt? Someone has to stand up for social justice and freedom. I saw quite a few ex military, even some marines in there supporting them. Were the rich whiny hippies too?

Who were the mercenary "rebels" we supported in Libya? Who financed them? That really had nothing to do with the Arab Spring, IMHO.
 
EagleSmack
+2
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Now that is exactly what I'm talking about. Who were the people getting beat up and killed in Egypt? Someone has to stand up for social justice and freedom. I saw quite a few ex military, even some marines in there supporting them. Were the rich whiny hippies too?

Sure there were some ex-military... we can't all be perfect.

The Occupy Movement did nothing but cost millions and millions of taxpayer money and was a cesspool of crime, drugs, and filth.

Comparing the Occupy Movement to the Arab Spring and resistance in Auschwitz.

Quote:

Who were the mercenary "rebels" we supported in Libya? Who financed them? That really had nothing to do with the Arab Spring, IMHO.

This really has nothing to do with this thread either... IMHO.
 
TenPenny
+2
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Comparing the Arab Spring to a bunch of hippies, druggies, and rich whinny brats?

How is that Occupy Movement doing anyhow?

And there we have the proof. Protesting against injustice
and oppression is okay for "other people", but not here at home.
 
darkbeaver
+2
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Comparing the Arab Spring to a bunch of hippies, druggies, and rich whinny brats?

How is that Occupy Movement doing anyhow?

Judging by the fear and contempt in your words I'd say the occupy movement is doing more than alright.
 
SLM
+4
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I find it interesting that those that see heroism in the Arab Spring movement were also the loudest to shout against the occupy movement. Many of those people risked life and limb against police brutality for something they believed in and were passionate about. I guess double standards are the measure of today's idealism and political rhetoric.

I chose to salute their selfless bravery in the face of such overwhelming odds, brutality and opposition. Heroes one and all.

Sorry Cliffy but I find that really hard to swallow. Comparing the "risk" posed by police forces to a crowd in here N.A. with the risk incurred by protesters in a place like Syria where they actually opened fire on the crowd? That's like comparing a weekend in the drunk tank with incarceration at Auschwitz, more than a bit of a stretch.

I'm not saying that people in Canada or the U.S. do not have a right to gather, to protest, to demand more of their government. They absolutely do, in fact I think there should be more of it. I'm certainly not saying that the government here can do no wrong, or that there is no corruption, or waste or any of that. But comparing those folks with those who stood up to a completely corrupt and oppressive government?

C'mon now! They trucked port-a-potties in for them for goodness sakes! They suffered mild discomfort as they sat in their tents with their wifi connected laptops and tweeted about it. They did not risk their lives!
 
darkbeaver
#9
Gaza is the archetype of genocide. Who cares about Auschwitz, that was long ago and far far away.
 
TenPenny
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Sorry Cliffy but I find that really hard to swallow. Comparing the "risk" posed by police forces to a crowd in here N.A. with the risk incurred by protesters in a place like Syria where they actually opened fire on the crowd? That's like comparing a weekend in the drunk tank with incarceration at Auschwitz, more than a bit of a stretch.

I'm not saying that people in Canada or the U.S. do not have a right to gather, to protest, to demand more of their government. They absolutely do, in fact I think there should be more of it. I'm certainly not saying that the government here can do no wrong, or that there is no corruption, or waste or any of that. But comparing those folks with those who stood up to a completely corrupt and oppressive government?

C'mon now! They trucked port-a-potties in for them for goodness sakes! They suffered mild discomfort as they sat in their tents with their wifi connected laptops and tweeted about it. They did not risk their lives!

So,you're saying that if the Libyans brought in Portapotties, they would have no reason to protest?
 
SLM
+3
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

So,you're saying that if the Libyans brought in Portapotties, they would have no reason to protest?

Um, no. What I'm saying is comparing the risk taken by both groups and saying they're the same is a big stretch.
 
TenPenny
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Um, no. What I'm saying is comparing the risk taken by both groups and saying they're the same is a big stretch.

And that's not what he said in the first place.
 
SLM
+2
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

And that's not what he said in the first place.

I don't think I'm misreading those sentences. If I am, and he can confirm that, I'll retract, but that is how I read what was said.
 
Goober
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

And there we have the proof. Protesting against injustice
and oppression is okay for "other people", but not here at home.

How many were shot and killed. How many were arrested then subjected to state sponsored torture.
 
darkbeaver
#15
Th shooting and the torture and the concentration camps are just over the horizon on the NA continent. Of course with two million in prison in the USA, usa #1 usa #1 high fives and all that ****, that crippled country has the practice down pat all that's needed is a little escalation in unemployment and poverty and kazam we got American civil war 2.0. six million will seem like nothing
 
Goober
#16
Great how some take a thread that is dedicated to those that run into a burning building to save a life. Those that dive into a freezing river to save a child.

To those that are sidetracking this I would hope that we all return to the topic.
 
captain morgan
+3
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Great how some take a thread that is dedicated to those that run into a burning building to save a life. Those that dive into a freezing river to save a child.

To those that are sidetracking this I would hope that we all return to the topic.


Maybe it's better that the smoke clears at inception rather than have this drag out for pages and pages.

In the end, I agree with ES and SLM. At least I see a form of politicizing the theme that you offered in the OP.

But, back to the topic at hand, here's a couple for ya:

In the ultimate self-sacrifice, 180 workers are taking shifts to cool the wrecked reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant. The men, known as the Fukushima 50 because they work in shifts of 50, are likely being exposed to huge amounts of radiation.

The workers are being hailed as heroes for risking their lives. Read more (external - login to view).


And...

It's not just manpower behind the aid in Japan -- it's also man's best friend. A video reveals a dog serving as a true sentinel to his canine companion, refusing to leave the side of his injured friend lying on a debris-filled beach.

After an hour, rescuers calmed the guardian dog and took him to a shelter. The other dog was reportedly brought to the vet. Read more (external - login to view).
 
Spade
+3
#18
Return to Vimy 90th Anniversary - YouTube (external - login to view)
 
captain morgan
+1
#19
That is a remarkably powerful video.

Kudos to you Spade
 
SLM
+2
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Great how some take a thread that is dedicated to those that run into a burning building to save a life. Those that dive into a freezing river to save a child.

To those that are sidetracking this I would hope that we all return to the topic.

Sorry Goober, didn't mean to participate in the side tracking. My offering:

The Homeless Hero The Salvation Army in Canada (external - login to view)

He saved people from a freezing river on two occasions. If that doesn't qualify as heroic, then I don't know what does.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Maybe it's better that the smoke clears at inception rather than have this drag out for pages and pages.

It's worth a shot at least.

Quote:

At least I see a form of politicizing the theme that you offered in the OP.

Some people seem to need to politicize everything. Kind of reminds me of how Yukon Jack would immediately jump on anyone who mentioned they respected Terry Fox and trash him while exalting Steve Fonyo. Because no one could possibly respect two one-legged marathoners.
 
Cliffy
+1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

I don't think I'm misreading those sentences. If I am, and he can confirm that, I'll retract, but that is how I read what was said.

I find it interesting that those that see heroism in the Arab Spring movement were also the loudest to shout against the occupy movement. Many of those people risked life and limb against police brutality for something they believed in and were passionate about.

I'm talking about the hypocrisy of those who supported the Arabs fight for social justice while condemning those who were trying to do the same thing here. The amount of police brutality has nothing to do with it. By demeaning and demonizing the occupy movement makes it easy to justify the fact that the NY police did attack protestors at the beginning and in many other cities, is seen as justified in the same mannor that Iraq and Afghanistan was demonized to justified us bombing the crap out of civilians and driving them back into the stone age. It may be about a matter of degrees to some, but I'm talking about intent and tactics, propaganda and the tolerance for violence against any group of people. The level of violence is inconsequential.
 
CDNBear
+3
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

The level of violence is inconsequential.

I agree. But the Arab Spring was about getting out from under real tyranny.

The OWS movement was about money. Wealth inequality.

Although I agreed in principle with the premise of the OWS movement. I do not agree with what they brought to the forefront as the banner message. Which came to be the extreme opposite reaction to wealth inequality.

What I found unpalatable was only compounded by the face men that graced the pages of the daily's, and the copious amount of vids on YouTube. Actual, or self proclaimed leaders, they sent the wrong message.
 
oleoleolanda
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I find it interesting that those that see heroism in the Arab Spring movement were also the loudest to shout against the occupy movement. Many of those people risked life and limb against police brutality for something they believed in and were passionate about.

I'm talking about the hypocrisy of those who supported the Arabs fight for social justice while condemning those who were trying to do the same thing here. The amount of police brutality has nothing to do with it. By demeaning and demonizing the occupy movement makes it easy to justify the fact that the NY police did attack protestors at the beginning and in many other cities, is seen as justified in the same mannor that Iraq and Afghanistan was demonized to justified us bombing the crap out of civilians and driving them back into the stone age. It may be about a matter of degrees to some, but I'm talking about intent and tactics, propaganda and the tolerance for violence against any group of people. The level of violence is inconsequential.

Cliffy, all the security preparation and police presence was to ensure the safety of participants in the G20 meetings. They were not to stop protestors from protesting. That is a fundamental difference. And the reason for all the measures was becauce there is always a group of "protestors" at G20 summits who engage in acts of violence, and of course, the concern over potential acts of terrorism.

Protecting people from acts of violence is a role that the police plays in democratic societies. In a police state, their role is to attack and silence people who protest and to prevent them from protesting anywhere.

There were individuals at the G20 who engaged in acts of violence, not just against the police, but agains cars and businesses. The right to riot is not a democratic right or freedom. Again, the police intervened not to stop people from protesting but to stop them from rioting. I watched the riots live on TV and there was a moment where the rioters and people living in an apartment on top of a Starbucks that had been hit were arguing, with the people whose home was being threatened telling the rioters to go. The reporter heard the rioters say they were going to burn the place down. Shortly after, the police arrived in large numbers--to protect.

Yes, there were individual abuses of power, yes, the situation got heated. It was tense and it was human, but it had nothing to do with people not being allowed to protest or a police state.

I wish everyone who thinks that the G20 is an example of a police state, or repression of freedom and rights, would live for a few years in a dictatorship or fascist or communist or Islamist state so they could begin to understand what it really is to not have freedom of speech, freedom to protest. We live in a mature democracy and that makes us very lucky. Yes, there's all kinds of problems and things that need fixing and improving and yes, these include at times issues with the police but comparisons to fascism, police states, repression, denial of rights to demonstrate, etc. is sort of like a kid being grounded for a weekend at home comparing that to being a tortured political prisoner in Iran.
 
Cliffy
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I agree. But the Arab Spring was about getting out from under real tyranny.

The OWS movement was about money. Wealth inequality.

Although I agreed in principle with the premise of the OWS movement. I do not agree with what they brought to the forefront as the banner message. Which came to be the extreme opposite reaction to wealth inequality.

What I found unpalatable was only compounded by the face men that graced the pages of the daily's, and the copious amount of vids on YouTube. Actual, or self proclaimed leaders, they sent the wrong message.

I think the bailouts were robbing from the poor to give to the rich. That is what the protests were about. There was also a lot of media bias and interviewing of self proclaimed leaders who were probably plants. Using police brutality to suppress peaceful protest is tyranny. Again a matter of degrees.The constant presentation of Lotion Man and the homeless and drug addicts present for free food as representative of the protestors was just plain propaganda tactics. The message got lost in the media frenzy to discredit the movement.
 
darkbeaver
#25
Wealth inequality is a politically correct spelling of real tyranny.
 
CDNBear
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I think the bailouts were robbing from the poor to give to the rich. That is what the protests were about. There was also a lot of media bias and interviewing of self proclaimed leaders who were probably plants. Using police brutality to suppress peaceful protest is tyranny. Again a matter of degrees.The constant presentation of Lotion Man and the homeless and drug addicts present for free food as representative of the protestors was just plain propaganda tactics. The message got lost in the media frenzy to discredit the movement.

That's your perspective. Mine obviously differs.

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Wealth inequality is a politically correct spelling of real tyranny.

What do you know of either? You healthy trust fund shields you from any paper tyranny, real or imagined.
 
darkbeaver
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That's your perspective. Mine obviously differs.

What do you know of either? You healthy trust fund shields you from any paper tyranny, real or imagined.

Hey, I drew down the old trust kinda muchly over the hollydays hows about lendin six or seven thou to cover next week. I'll have to cancel my ski trip with the blond triplets if I can't put the bite on another rich guy like you.
 
oleoleolanda
+3
#28
For heroes... I think all the firemen who went into the WTC just before the tower collapsed, putting themselves in danger to rescue people are heroes. Well, all firemen and firewomen are heroes, really.
 
Goober
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Sorry Goober, didn't mean to participate in the side tracking. My offering:.

No need for anyone to apologize. My error in the OP. I was using an event from the Shoah and did not want this to turn into a Holocaust Denial event.
Win some, come close on the others I say.
 
SLM
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I find it interesting that those that see heroism in the Arab Spring movement were also the loudest to shout against the occupy movement. Many of those people risked life and limb against police brutality for something they believed in and were passionate about.

I'm talking about the hypocrisy of those who supported the Arabs fight for social justice while condemning those who were trying to do the same thing here. The amount of police brutality has nothing to do with it. By demeaning and demonizing the occupy movement makes it easy to justify the fact that the NY police did attack protestors at the beginning and in many other cities, is seen as justified in the same mannor that Iraq and Afghanistan was demonized to justified us bombing the crap out of civilians and driving them back into the stone age. It may be about a matter of degrees to some, but I'm talking about intent and tactics, propaganda and the tolerance for violence against any group of people. The level of violence is inconsequential.

Just to clarify myself, I have nothing against anyone who fights for what they believe in, whether I agree with their argument or not. I don't actually disagree with the sentiment behind the Occupy protests. There is real inequality, in power and in wealth and it's probably beyond time that someone stood up and said something. Unfortunately it was, and this is just my opinion, a rather incoherent mess of a message. You can blame the media to a certain degree sure but the bottom line is they ultimately failed to get the support of the majority of the people behind them. It's easy to point a finger at the government but the reality is, if the message is just and is supported by the masses, then real change is possible. The Civil Rights movement for example.

I'm not justifying any real case of police brutality, it does happen, I'm not denying that. But comparing the risk to life and limb of the occupy protestors to the risk incurred by those in Syria, in Libya? Doesn't even compare. And no, that doesn't justify the harm done to anyone over here, but comparing them and calling them the same does, in my opinion, demean those who were really risking their lives.
 

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