Northwestern Ontario First Nation needs 300 homes


Cliffy
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

No. Did I say that you did?



True, and that, apparently, means they are unable to perform the most basic maintenance or upkeep on a house. I'm not sure how that works, but apparently being a ward of the state means you can kick holes in your walls, and destroy your house, and then whine because your house is a piece of ****t.

I would be interested to know how some natives are, apparently, able to understand the concept of maintenance, while others cannot grasp it.

Do you have any (non racist) insight into how that works? Is it genetic?

May not be genetic, but maybe hereditary. After a hundred years of residential schools and many generations of people who have had no family life, no emotional nurturing, no life skills taught, you end up with generations of alcoholics who are incapable of even hugging or nurturing their own children. Not only were the rsidential school victims abuse, physically, emotionally and sexually, they witnessed many of their friends die and be buried in unmarked graves in the dark of night. If you have not experienced such emotional trauma, how do you expect to understand the realities of being aboriginals living on reserves?

It has been less that 25years since the last of those schools shut down. It will take a while before they work through the disabling trauma of it and heal those wounds. Some have managed to get on with their lives and some have not. But stereotyping the people because of a few hyped up incidences is not going to help the process.
 
PoliticalNick
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Ask your Aboriginals friends what life is like for a person born into a First Nations. Oh yes, they are your friends so you should have a well thought out response. Now shouldn't you?

I admittedly don't know or associate with any that live on welfare and band checks on the reserve. Those I do know well have all broken free of the shackles of such a lifestyle through hard work and determination. They own their own homes and pay a mortgage and work decent jobs and pay taxes. They absolutely hate the stigma attached to them because of their heritage and quite a few have torn up their status cards. The main point being they chose to be productive citizens of Canada and worked for what they wanted instead of letting someone keep them down.
 
Goober
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

I admittedly don't know or associate with any that live on welfare and band checks on the reserve. Those I do know well have all broken free of the shackles of such a lifestyle through hard work and determination. They own their own homes and pay a mortgage and work decent jobs and pay taxes. They absolutely hate the stigma attached to them because of their heritage and quite a few have torn up their status cards. The main point being they chose to be productive citizens of Canada and worked for what they wanted instead of letting someone keep them down.

Not a good answer. Problems understanding what the chances are for First Nations people in Canada.
 
TenPenny
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

May not be genetic, but maybe hereditary. After a hundred years of residential schools and many generations of people who have had no family life, no emotional nurturing, no life skills taught, you end up with generations of alcoholics who are incapable of even hugging or nurturing their own children. Not only were the rsidential school victims abuse, physically, emotionally and sexually, they witnessed many of their friends die and be buried in unmarked graves in the dark of night. If you have not experienced such emotional trauma, how do you expect to understand the realities of being aboriginals living on reserves?

It has been less that 25years since the last of those schools shut down. It will take a while before they work through the disabling trauma of it and heal those wounds. Some have managed to get on with their lives and some have not. But stereotyping the people because of a few hyped up incidences is not going to help the process.


So it's the residential schools at fault again, is it?

Oh, my father yelled at me when I was a kid, can I get the government to pay for my car maintenance? Where do I apply for pathetic victim coverage?
 
Goober
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

So it's the residential schools at fault again, is it?

Oh, my father yelled at me when I was a kid, can I get the government to pay for my car maintenance? Where do I apply for pathetic victim coverage?

Think of a father who beats his children. Look at the generational effects. Your reply was somewhat glib. Not your usual style.
 
Cliffy
+1
#36
I hear a lot of people say (about aboriginal people), "get over it" with regards to the residential schools. I wonder how many of those would have the balls to walk up to a Jew and say the same thing about the holocaust.
 
PoliticalNick
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Not a good answer. Problems understanding what the chances are for First Nations people in Canada.

Hmmm, let's think about that for a minute. With free healthcare, including dental, free university education and the a ability to file and win a lawsuit because a white guy was a better candidate for the job I think they got a real good chance to succeed if they want to. Problem is a lot are happy to do nothing except sign government checks. Of course that pertains to a lot of people from every ethnicity.
 
Goober
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Hmmm, let's think about that for a minute. With free healthcare, including dental, free university education and the a ability to file and win a lawsuit because a white guy was a better candidate for the job I think they got a real good chance to succeed if they want to. Problem is a lot are happy to do nothing except sign government checks. Of course that pertains to a lot of people from every ethnicity.

You never fail to meet the lowest expectations of the basic qualities of good character and humanity.
 
lone wolf
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

No. Did I say that you did?

Ambiguous reply leaves wiggle room. Just clarifying....
 
PoliticalNick
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

You never fail to meet the lowest expectations of the basic qualities of good character and humanity.

Awww, I'm touched by your emotional outburst.

Remember the saying "god helps those that help themselves"? Well I'm like god, if someone is trying to better themselves I will help in any way I can. All others are on their own.
 
TenPenny
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I hear a lot of people say (about aboriginal people), "get over it" with regards to the residential schools. I wonder how many of those would have the balls to walk up to a Jew and say the same thing about the holocaust.


I would, because few Jews that I would meet today were personally involved in the holocaust.

Reminds me of my mother's reaction, reading 'Angelas Ashes': "Oh, great, a useless alcoholic abusive Irish father. Been there, done that, don't need to read about it'.

Anything that happened to your parents is not your problem. And at some point, you need to take responsibility for yourself. If you were in a residential school, that does not mean you can neglect home maintenance, and expect someone else to do it for you. We all have dysfunctional families, but we survive and carry on.

Yeah, it's tough medicine. Fukin get over it, man, stop being a victim, and take charge of your life.

Boo fukin hoo, let's get drunk and whine about how hard life is, that's what I did when I was a teenager, got drunk and whined. Where did it get me? No fukin where.
 
Goober
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Awww, I'm touched by your emotional outburst.

Remember the saying "god helps those that help themselves"? Well I'm like god, if someone is trying to better themselves I will help in any way I can. All others are on their own.

No you are not. Just another poorly informed ass. Who has no idea of what his friends really think. At least they can think. Pray for osmosis.
 
Omicron
#43
Actually, if you just dump the building materials on them combined with some blueprints and maybe some instructors to teach how to read the blue-prints, they won't have much of a problem as long as you can keep them fed long enough for them to get the homes built and for them to get the farms going.

That is presuming, of course, that they don't get dumbfounded by Swiss pharmaceuticals.

But last time I looked, people stuck on a poor reserve were doing what anybody would do if stuck on a reserve, which is get drunk every chance possible to kill the pain while wondering how if the great British Queen were so powerful, she had delegated mud-dump brains to be the governors (the natives did not know that Europe was exporting idiots in order to not feel guilty about hanging them, while parallel the brains of Europe were running west to get the f-ck away from tyrants crushing thought, thus leading to the weird mix of idiots and saints here while Europe got mangled by the first and second world wars).
Last edited by Omicron; Jan 24th, 2012 at 01:17 AM..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Awww, I'm touched by your emotional outburst.

Remember the saying "god helps those that help themselves"? Well I'm like god, if someone is trying to better themselves I will help in any way I can. All others are on their own.

Aboriginals have a sense of entitlement that is very strong. It is fed by large upper class twitty whites who rail against racism and colonialism, while most of us tune this nonsense out. The poor aboriginal downtown shouts to whites, "You're on stolen land." While his rich cousin works as a lawyer, pumps his fist in a nice warm office, and says, "Right on brother!" Sad and comic, this show is paid for by taxpayers. I saw this written on a wall at Main and Terminal Avenue in Vancouver, and I heard it too.

Time to state a fact, Canada is not stolen land. I heard this on APTN, and it was said to me by a white Canadian who said "technically" this was so, but had zero interest in Indians.

The fed govt loves the ambiguity of stolen land, guilt, British colonialism to debate these points endlessly, then to extend "aboriginal rights" where they ought not to exist and should be extinguished. Certainty is required here to move forward.
 
CDNBear
+2
#45
Same old tired uneducated arguments from the same old tired people.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

A buddy of mine is doing very well. He is a golf pro in the Maritimes. He would be quite insulted by your condescending attitude towards him just because he is an aboriginal.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

The reality is that he is doing quite well and his heritage has neither hindered him nor helped him. He wouldn't need or want your sympathy.

Most likely related to Cretien's homeless friend.

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I'm wondering when the federal gov't will be responsible for maintenance on my house.

When you negotiate into a collective agreement with the Feds, brokered for the transition of land in your possession, to theirs.

Good luck.
Last edited by CDNBear; Jan 26th, 2012 at 04:34 PM..
 
L Gilbert
+1
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by OmicronView Post

Actually, if you just dump the building materials on them combined with some blueprints and maybe some instructors to teach how to read the blue-prints, they won't have much of a problem as long as you can keep them fed long enough for them to get the homes built and for them to get the farms going.

Probably.
If it were me, I wouldn't wait for gov't to do anything. I'd be out and about acquiring my own resources. Mind you, that's assuming there are resources around and that I wouldn't get harassed by the gov't for collecting them.
Also, if I did manage to build my own house and if the gov't did nothing to help, I'd not accept any sniveling by the gov't concerning how I did what in building it either. IOW, if you as gov't wants to help, fine. If not, stay the frack outta my way.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Aboriginals have a sense of entitlement that is very strong.

Some do, some don't. Some whities are redheads, some aren't. So?
Europeans came over here and eventually ended up driving native's away from their lifestyles after 20,000 years and expected them to adopt to European lifestyles after a couple hundred years. Sorry, but evolution in humans is a lot slower than that, it takes thousands of years.
So basically what Europeans have done is taken a relatively naive people, pretended to be friendly as long as they get what they want, stripped them of anything they viewed as important, and then given them a drug to make them dependent upon European type "culture" and lifestyle. In the meantime, ignorant people like you come along and snivel about their state of affairs. And I do mean ignorant. Very few people can even come close to grasping how close of a bond between the planet and natives there was/is. And EVERYTHING about natives focused around that bond. Everything about us revolves around money. IMO, it's no freakin wonder they can't "fit in" easily. But quite a few are managing to fit in anyway.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#47
What has happened wasn't pretty, but its a done deal, game over. The world is a commodity and its all for sale. I don't always like it, but that is reality.

When the Spanish first landed in 1492 they were not nice at all, they were brutal and changed everything. The English were not nice, did you see the movie Pocahontas? A lot of shooting in that movie. English attempts to colonise failed before that in the 16th century. Due to conflict.

I'll grant you the French were quite "nice", they traded with Indians, made alliances and fought tribe all over. But the French would have come to the same ending as the Spanish and English, just taken longer. The French had they won in 1759, would have expelled all the English. You couldn't live in Canada unless you were French and Catholic while Canada was a royal colony of France. Things were very harsh in the old days.
 
CDNBear
+1
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

The English were not nice, did you see the movie Pocahontas?

That there sums up why you are incapable of having an intelligent conversation on First Nations.
 
pgs
+1
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That there sums up why you are incapable of having an intelligent conversation on First Nations.

No doubt.
I saw old Davey Crockett wrestle alligators once and that was after he killed a bear when he was three.
I love those old t.v.shows.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#50
The English weren't nice? They gave Indians as much of North America as they could in the 1763 treaty, that was very very nice. And now Canadians have to pay for it and they are asking a few questions, some say that's not nice. Staying silent and just obeying is what traditionalists do, not moderns.
 
CDNBear
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

The English weren't nice?

No they weren't in most cases. But I learned that from reading real history books, not by watching Hollywood's version of Pocahontas.

Quote:

They gave Indians as much of North America as they could in the 1763 treaty, that was very very nice. And now Canadians have to pay for it and they are asking a few questions, some say that's not nice.

You have that wrong, I'm not surprised.

Here's the correct statement...

The Indigenous people sold or had stolen from them, much of North America. Now Canadians are paying for it.

I don't know about you, but I believe in paying for things I want and I certainly believe in restitution.

Quote:

Staying silent and just obeying is what traditionalists do, not moderns.

No, staying silent and just obeying, is what complacent people do. Traditionalists, in the First Nations sense, live a lifestyle akin to that of their distant forefathers.

I'm not sure what modern people do really. I read an article the other day that modern people watch Taiwan TV. I don't, so by your logic I must be a traditionalist, or complacent. But I'm a active in the Native community, and I live in a home with indoor plumbing and technology. Two things that obviously show that I'm, neither complacent, or a traditionalist.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#52
If the British were the crown and the crown claims all land, then the British "gave" away nothing. Indians signed a treaty agreeing with this idea. They too were subjects of the monarch, there's no racial discrimination here.

Right now the crown can make new reserves, and it does, Saskatchewan has 47 urban reserves. I saw that on the CBC. Do Indians own that land? No, it is fed govt land. Land that belongs to all Canadians.

Ten billion dollars per year from the CANADIAN fed govt is more than adequate restitution for Indians. Paid in full. The British are bye bye, ta ta. Game over.
 
CDNBear
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

If the British were the crown and the crown claims all land, then the British "gave" away nothing.

That's so nonsensical, it's impossible to adequately address.

Quote:

Indians signed a treaty agreeing with this idea.

No they didn't. Maybe if you learned history from a book, instead of from Hollywood, you wouldn't make such silly claims.

Quote:

They too were subjects of the monarch...

In a round about way.

Quote:

... there's no racial discrimination here.

There most certainly was, despite the fact that the contracts were between two entities, not races. Racism permeated the process.

Quote:

Right now the crown can make new reserves, and it does, Saskatchewan has 47 urban reserves. I saw that on the CBC. Do Indians own that land? No, it is fed govt land. Land that belongs to all Canadians.

That's a Crown reserve, much like CFB Borden. And is considered a satellite reserve to First Nations Treaty reserves. Originally implemented to counter the loss of or encroachment on traditional Treaty lands.

Quote:

Ten billion dollars per year from the CANADIAN fed govt is more than adequate restitution for Indians. Paid in full.

No, that's the annual budget for treaty maintenance. Restitution is what the Crown pays to make amends for theft of lands and/or criminal/immoral acts against the First Nations.

Quote:

The British are bye bye, ta ta. Game over.

In some respects, yes they are gone. But because Canada is an honourable country, it chose to uphold it's contractual obligations.

Why do i have to explain all this to you, if you have a degree in history?
 
dumpthemonarchy
#54
A history degree means you know when an issue gets buried and this issue only lives among the people regarding taxes. Paying forever is not a modern solution. Proof positive the honour of the crown now only means money from the crown. Canada is an honourable country, not a foolish one. People know a scam when they see one. History is filled with them.
 
CDNBear
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

A history degree means you know when an issue gets buried and this issue only lives among the people regarding taxes.

So in other words, you don't really have a history degree.

Quote:

Canada is an honourable country, not a foolish one.

Hence all the lawsuits.

Quote:

People know a scam when they see one.

We also know when you`re full of sh!t.
 
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