Marines and Honour


earth_as_one
#181
I don't need any help from you Goober. I can make my own arguments clearly enough without your misrepresentations, unfounded accusations, slurs and name calling. If Goober had his way, every thread I post on would soon be just about me.
 
Cannuck
#182
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Sorry I thought you just posted a load of crap without context, like this:

I would agree that it lacks context as there are people in Canada (that are not Taliban) that believe those things. That said, this thread is about circumstances in Afghanistan.
 
earth_as_one
#183
Those behaviors speak about culture and tradition, not Islam. I'm pretty sure I can find examples of Christians oppressing women, supporting slavery, committing incest and pretty much every degrading act ever committed. I'd never attempt to link those behaviors to Christianity because some Christians have done these things and tried to justify their depravity with references to the bible.

But you are right about the Taliban. They have extreme viewpoints regarding women, which is why I never supported these nut jobs, even when they were fighting the Russians with US and Pakistan help.
 
Goober
+1
#184
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I don't need any help from you Goober. I can make my own arguments clearly enough without your misrepresentations, unfounded accusations, slurs and name calling. If Goober had his way, every thread I post on would soon be just about me.

Nope - I like many do stray from the topic line. Most thread have that. You jump in and before we know it, out comes Jews and Israel.
Appears you have an unhealthy fixation for consuming and then regurgitating Bshxt. You fail to understand that no matter how well you dress up Bshxt - It is still Bshxt.
So endeth the lesson Little One. Now if you still keep on acting up, there will be no Night Light tonight. Got it?
 
L Gilbert
+1
#185
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Please post a link to something which supports the claim that the Taliban disrespect corpses.

BTW, I'm a guy and agnostic. I consider all religious zealots to be equally crazy and intolerant.

I don't think the Taliban are any better. I saw one Taliban child standing behind a captive that was bound head to feet and masked. The child was instructed to behead the dood. That's not particularly honorable either.
Link? I'll see what I can find on that.

Here: Taliban Beheading Video Boy Beheads US Spy (Censored) - YouTube (external - login to view)

More: Two Sikhs Beheaded By Pakistan Taliban - YouTube (external - login to view)

Another bit of despicable behavior is Taliban fighters throwing acid at little girls' faces simply for going to school.

Afghan girls maimed by acid vow to go to school - CNN

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T-AFNKF9QP...1600/acid1.jpg

Can't seem to find the vid of a Taliban beheading where a line of Taliban went by the corpse and spat on it. It's in Youtube somewhere.
 
DaSleeper
#186
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Nope - I like many do stray from the topic line. Most thread have that. You jump in and before we know it, out comes Jews and Israel.
Appears you have an unhealthy fixation for consuming and then regurgitating Bshxt. You fail to understand that no matter how well you dress up Bshxt - It is still Bshxt.
So endeth the lesson Little One. Now if you still keep on acting up, there will be no Night Light tonight. Got it?

Since he has claimed Jewish heritage....

Would that make him a diaspora Jew???
 
earth_as_one
#187
Hi LG,

I never claimed the Taliban are any better than the marines who pissed on their dead bodies. As your post shows, there are plenty of good reasons to despise the Taliban for things they've done, without condemning them for things they didn't do.

However I would like to point out that if the Taliban did piss on the bodies of some dead marines, the news coverage here would be completely different and very similar to the way this has been played in Afghanistan... Let's put it this way. I doubt Rick Perry would be as forgiving of the Taliban as he is regarding the Marines:

“These kids made a mistake. There’s not any doubt about it. They shouldn’t have done it. It’s bad,” Perry told CNN’s “State of the Union” program. “But to call it a criminal act, I think, is over the top,” said Perry...Rick Perry defends U.S. Marines caught urinating on Taliban corpses | News | National Post
 
L Gilbert
#188
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Hi LG,

I never claimed the Taliban are any better than the marines who pissed on their dead bodies. As your post shows, there are plenty of good reasons to despise the Taliban for things they've done, without condemning them for things they didn't do.

However I would like to point out that if the Taliban did piss on the bodies of some dead marines, the news coverage here would be completely different and very similar to the way this has been played in Afghanistan... Let's put it this way. I doubt Rick Perry would be as forgiving of the Taliban as he is regarding the Marines:

“These kids made a mistake. There’s not any doubt about it. They shouldn’t have done it. It’s bad,” Perry told CNN’s “State of the Union” program. “But to call it a criminal act, I think, is over the top,” said Perry...Rick Perry defends U.S. Marines caught urinating on Taliban corpses | News | National Post

Whatever. You asked for info on Taliban pissing on dead and I couldn't find any after a short search. So I posted a couple other things I found. Personally, I think war and warlike aggressions should ALL be criminal. Start an aggressive action and go directly to prison for life.
 
earth_as_one
#189
And I'm not disagreeing with you. If you posted some unsubstantiated BS, I'd challenge you. But unlike other people here, you make your points and back them up with references.
 
TenPenny
+1
#190
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I can make my own arguments clearly enough

If that's true, I'd be interested in seeing an example of you doing that.
 
Goober
#191
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

And I'm not disagreeing with you. If you posted some unsubstantiated BS, I'd challenge you. But unlike other people here, you make your points and back them up with references.

Now that in itself is an interesting point. You have the common or frequent habit of not answering a clear, direct and concise question, you pull a Houdini or a large cut and paste that dances a jig around the question asked.

Example - I will ask a direct, clearly worded and concise question. And yes i will eagerly await your informed reply.

What is a Non Violent Pacifist? Take your time I have to shovel a tad.
 
TenPenny
#192
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Whatever. You asked for info on Taliban pissing on dead

Actually, no he didn't. He asked for examples of Taliban disrespecting a dead body.
 
ironsides
+1
#193
Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'.
Congressman Allen West


Regarding the video (external - login to view) of alleged Marines urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban fighters that went viral Thursday, Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) had some intense words for anyone criticizing the military.


Here’s an email (external - login to view) he sent to The Weekly Standard:

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.



“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?



“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.



“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

West is a former Army Lieutenant colonel.



Now you know the rules and the law. Dismissed.


















Last edited by ironsides; Jan 16th, 2012 at 08:28 PM..
 
BruSan
+1
#194
Bingo! Can't think of anything worse than armchair quarterbacks AND politicians assessing the morality of young marines behaving badly. They fugged up and got caught, now they're gonna pay big time and the resto of them will have learned a valuable lesson: anybody pulls out a cel-phone or video recorder, you stomp on him! Abu Garaib should have taught them but hey; some lessons need repeat positive reinforcement.
 
Cannuck
#195
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post


West is a former Army Lieutenant colonel



...and an idiot but, I guess that doesn't matter. A politician has spoken. That pretty much ends the discussion.
 
Goober
#196
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

...and an idiot but, I guess that doesn't matter. A politician has spoken. That pretty much ends the discussion.
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

You just do not understand that this is really SFA to be upset about - War sucks.
 
TenPenny
+1
#197
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

You just do not understand that this is really SFA to be upset about - War sucks.


Yes, it does. So I always wonder why we get upset about IEDs and the like. What the heck do you expect?
 
Goober
#198
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

Yes, it does. So I always wonder why we get upset about IEDs and the like. What the heck do you expect?

To me it is minor. Most people have no idea of the stresses that cause this to happen. And it does happen. So imho it is minor.
 
Cannuck
#199
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

You just do not understand that this is really SFA to be upset about - War sucks.

Who said I'm upset about it. I just think the guys need to be dishonorably discharged and thrown in the klink for six months. That might stop any other "stressed out" soldiers from doing something stupid like this.
 
lone wolf
#200
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Who said I'm upset about it. I just think the guys need to be dishonorably discharged and thrown in the klink for six months. That might stop any other "stressed out" soldiers from doing something stupid like this.

What would you do with an arsonist if you had the opportunity?
 
Cannuck
#201
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

What would you do with an arsonist if you had the opportunity?

Report him to the police, why?
 
lone wolf
#202
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Report him to the police, why?

Seems to me I recall you claiming to be a firefighter. Seems to me even you know how long it will be before the arsonist is out there getting jollies again. I'm assuming you're bright enough to figure out the rest
 
Ron in Regina
+3
#203
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/wo...-say.html?_r=1
Talk to almost anyone who has fought in combat, and chances are they can tick off a string of reasons why the YouTube video showing four Marines urinating on the bodies of dead enemy fighters in southern Afghanistan is horrible. Horrible for America’s image around the world. Horrible for its strategy of winning support from the Afghan people. Horrible for a professional military that believes its troops behave with the utmost decorum, even in the heat of battle.
And yet, their outrage often also comes with a caveat. Reprehensible behavior, combat veterans and military experts say, is an ever-present risk when troops in their teens and early 20s are thrown into nerve-racking battle for months at a time. And if there are weaknesses in their leadership or breakdowns in discipline, that behavior can easily spill over into acts that might be considered war crimes.
“The degree to which a squad or platoon in combat becomes calloused toward the enemy that they are facing is almost always high,” said Andrew M. Exum, a former Army officer who did combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and is now senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a Washington policy group. “There is always, always, always the temptation to abuse a detainee...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Ahhh....now here perhaps an arguement could be made that combat soldiers
need to be a minimum of 50yrs of age or older, eliminating this issue. A bunch
of pissed-off old guys with sore backs, and not in the mood for taking **** from
anybody, at any time, for any reason.
 
Cliffy
#204
Once you leave the womb, conservatives don’t care about you until you reach military age. Then you’re just what they’re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

If it requires a uniform, it’s a worthless endeavor. - George Carlin
 
Cannuck
#205
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Seems to me I recall you claiming to be a firefighter. Seems to me even you know how long it will be before the arsonist is out there getting jollies again. I'm assuming you're bright enough to figure out the rest

I guess I'm not.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Once you leave the womb, conservatives don’t care about you until you reach military age. Then you’re just what they’re looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

If it requires a uniform, it’s a worthless endeavor. - George Carlin

Aside from being unfunny, George never struck me as being too bright. Never did get the fascination with him.
 
Cliffy
#206
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Aside from being unfunny, George never struck me as being too bright. Never did get the fascination with him.

Too bad. Did someone amputate your funny bone or were you born without one?
 
JLM
+1
#207
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Too bad. Did someone amputate your funny bone or were you born without one?

The hilarious part Cliff, is who is judging someone ELSE not to be "too bright". A chortle a minute!
 
earth_as_one
#208
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'.
Congressman Allen West

Regarding the video of alleged Marines urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban fighters that went viral Thursday, Rep. Allen West (R-Fla.) had some intense words for anyone criticizing the military.

Here’s an email he sent to The Weekly Standard:

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?

“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

West is a former Army Lieutenant colonel.

Now you know the rules and the law. Dismissed.

Congressman Allen West is ignorant and wrong. His statements indicate he doesn't know his geography, history or that these incidents involved different adversaries.

Congressman Allen West: I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu.

eao: I do recall self-righteous indignation after this event. In fact the American general public were so righteous and indignant, that pressure from the American public forced the Clinton Administration to end their mission in Somalia. Also, the images of these soldier's bodies being desecrated were immortalized in the movie "Black Hawk Down". That movie is full of righteous indignation. The Congressman also doesn't appear to be able to differentiate between one group of Ragheads and another, even though Somalia is thousands of kilometers away from Afghanistan and the people responsible were Somalis (not the Taliban) and don't even speak the same language.

Congressman Allen West: Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

eao: As I recall, these "contractors" were hired mercenaries which allegedly interrogated and tortured Iraqi civilians and insurgents alike. These "contractors" did things that the US military isn't allowed to do to their prisoners. Also, before the US led Iraq invasion, the residents of Fallujah were more or less hostile to Saddam Hussein. Fallujah was run by the locals. When the US military showed up, the locals as per their culture made a show of force. Due to a cultural misunderstanding the US leaders interpreted that show of force as a threat and ordered soldiers to fire into a crowd of mostly unarmed civilians. The dead were mostly women and children. That's when Fallujah became hostile to the US. Eventually the Fallujah insurgency forced the US military to retreat. A few mercenaries never made it out and were captured. The locals tried the mercenaries for their "crimes" and executed them according to their code of justice. Their corpses were strung up on a bridge at the entrance to the city as warning and set on fire. In response, the US bombed Fallujah (a densely populated city) with high explosives and white phosphorus. After a series of "shake and bake" operations which killed most of the city's residents, the town was pacified. Only a few residents survived the brutal massacre which included orders to shoot anything that moved and captured prisoners. BTW, Fallujah is in Iraq, not Afghanistan and the Ragheads in this case were Iraqis, not the Taliban.

FYI, I don't defend the actions of anyone involved in either of these incidents. My point is only that the Congressman's statement was both ignorant and wrong.

As far as I know, the Taliban do lots of crazy assed ****.... but I don't believe their code allows for the desecration of dead bodies or disrespect for their adversaries. However, I'd like to see someone post something which proves that statement wrong. Its possible that they have done this and I am unaware of it. However if the Taliban did something like the US Marines did, it would have made our news. I'm also fairly certain most Americans would have been rightfully outraged and self righteous as the Afghan people are.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Jan 17th, 2012 at 11:39 AM..
 
Cliffy
#209
Due to a cultural misunderstanding the US leaders interpreted that show of force as a threat and ordered soldiers to fire into a crowd of mostly unarmed civilians. The dead were mostly women and children.

Seems to me that both Iraq and Afghanistan were the result of colossal misunderstandings. It happens when you think you are the center of the Universe. Americans need to learn that they are not the center, Toronto is.
 
earth_as_one
#210
Regarding the incident where US soldiers fired indiscriminately into a crowd of unarmed civilians:

The 18-page report, "Violent Response: The U.S. Army in al-Falluja (external - login to view)," challenges the U.S. military's assertion that its troops came under direct fire from individuals in the crowd of protesters on April 28. Human Rights Watch found no conclusive evidence of bullet damage on the school where the soldiers were based. In contrast, buildings facing the school had extensive multi-caliber bullet impacts that were inconsistent with U.S. assertions that soldiers had responded with "precision fire."
Iraq: U.S. Should Investigate al-Falluja | Human Rights Watch (external - login to view)

Until that incident, Fallujah was not strongly anti or pro US.

Fallujah - The Hidden Massacre
Veteran admits: Bodies melted away before us
Fallujah - The Hidden Massacre: Video - (external - login to view)
 

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