Marines and Honour


Cannuck
#151
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I read it. So a Pakistani source is to be trusted. Where did the 17,000 Russian troops go.
Shxt man- That has been flying around the net for a long time.
Do you believe it?

Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant. The "news snippet" had everything to do with Cliffy's post.
 
Goober
#152
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Whether I believe it or not is irrelevant. The "news snippet" had everything to do with Cliffy's post.

If you read it, you should have an opinion.
 
JLM
+1
#153
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

If you read it, you should have an opinion.

Do we really want to hear another of his opinions?
 
Cannuck
#154
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

If you read it, you should have an opinion.

I do have an opinion. My opinion is that it has everything to do with Cliffy's post.

As for the idea that there was a plan, of course I believe it. There really is no reason that I can see not to believe it.

U.S. planned for attack on al-Qaida - US news - Security - msnbc.com (external - login to view)
 
captain morgan
#155
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

I do not agree with the things the taliban did in their regime. Most of it is disgusting, brual, and goes against my idea of freedom.

The sickening brutality goes both ways and covers all points of the spectrum. These Marines represent a point on the spectrum.

But in the end, my belief is that their actions are not comparable with the more heinous examples wrought by both (all) parties.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Please do show some documentation of where the govt of Afghanistan asked NATO or the UN or the US or anyone else to send military forces in to help a failing nation. Considering the govt was the taliban I doubt you can provide anything legitimate and are just repeating the propaganda you have been spoon-fed by GW Bush and his war-hawk friends.

They asked for military forces to be deployed along with boat loads of cash to aid their nation... Look it up and you'll find numerous sources to confirm this... You can choose which ever source you wish to believe.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Make no mistake, this war was about controling the ME and central Asia and the oil and resources available. It is a simple matter of money and profitability. There is no honor on either side and that is a fact you should face up to one day.

That argument falls flat considering that Canada's prairie provinces have proven reserves that can fuel the Western economies for a few hundred years... The amount of cash that has been spent to date by NATO nations (read: Western economies) could have already developed the North American resource base, transportation and infrastructure a few times over.

I just can't buy your argument.

Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

For Afghanistan? Really, show me those plans please.

Those plans died with Moe Green.... Originally. they had proposed to build a city of casinos in the middle of the Afghanistan desert and supporting tourist trap. Las Vegas was just a test project, but the real one was slated for the ME.

Me thinks that the deal fell flat when Moe Green crossed the Corleones - he got whacked PDQ.
 
TenPenny
+3
#156
If it's acceptable to piss on the bodies, then it must also be acceptable to drag them through the streets behind jeeps in celebration.
 
captain morgan
#157
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

If it's acceptable to piss on the bodies, then it must also be acceptable to drag them through the streets behind jeeps in celebration.


These actions feed on themselves and promote more of the same. The Taliban have made no secret of those incidents where they have disrespected a body or living soldier.

Ever read the novel "All Quiet on the Western Front"? There's a passage wherein a soldier describes what they do to enemy combatants that would modify their bayonets to have a serrated edge. It's a barbaric description, but the retaliation was done so because getting stabbed with a serrated edge would eliminate any chance for the person stabbed to be treated (successfully) by the medical staff.
 
Goober
#158
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I do have an opinion. My opinion is that it has everything to do with Cliffy's post.

As for the idea that there was a plan, of course I believe it. There really is no reason that I can see not to believe it.

U.S. planned for attack on al-Qaida - US news - Security - msnbc.com (external - login to view)

In my opinion this is nothing to get all hot about.
 
JLM
#159
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

In my opinion this is nothing to get all hot about.

Yep, it's over and can't be changed!
 
Cannuck
#160
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

In my opinion this is nothing to get all hot about.

Did I say it was?
 
Goober
+1
#161
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Did I say it was?

No and I am glad we are not into a pissing contest. I have a bigger dick, oops I am a bigger dick.
 
darkbeaver
#162
I wonder how much zionist training those scumbag marines had?
 
oleoleolanda
#163
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

I wonder how much zionist training those scumbag marines had?

Wow. So much ignorance and so much hatred in such few words!

BTW You should know that anyone who believes that Israel has a right to exist is a Zionist, whether they are Jewish or not.

I am a Zionist. There are Zionists in every country. Many live in Canada. We're everywhere. And we are the majority of the world's population. And anti-Zionism is doomed to be defeated. The thing about hatred is that while it can sometimes be destructive and even lethal for the people hated, it's always destructive for the people who hate.
 
Spade
+2
#164
We as ordinary citizens are complicit in these acts. We elect governments who send our youth on tasks which place them in situations where all are dehumanized.
 
Goober
+3
#165
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

We as ordinary citizens are complicit in these acts. We elect governments who send our youth on tasks which place them in situations where all are dehumanized.

And we then throw them to the side as the present Govt has done with the New Veterans Charter. And they are then subjected, by a goodly numbers to derisive and derogatory comments.
 
L Gilbert
+2
#166
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

These actions feed on themselves and promote more of the same. The Taliban have made no secret of those incidents where they have disrespected a body or living soldier.

Yep. And 2 childish acts don't add maturity to anything. Essentially, a pissing match over who can be more childish the most.
 
Goober
+2
#167
www.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/wo...-say.html?_r=1 (external - login to view)

Talk to almost anyone who has fought in combat, and chances are they can tick off a string of reasons why the YouTube video showing four Marines urinating on the bodies of dead enemy fighters in southern Afghanistan is horrible. Horrible for America’s image around the world. Horrible for its strategy of winning support from the Afghan people. Horrible for a professional military that believes its troops behave with the utmost decorum, even in the heat of battle.

And yet, their outrage often also comes with a caveat. Reprehensible behavior, combat veterans and military experts say, is an ever-present risk when troops in their teens and early 20s are thrown into nerve-racking battle for months at a time. And if there are weaknesses in their leadership or breakdowns in discipline, that behavior can easily spill over into acts that might be considered war crimes.

“The degree to which a squad or platoon in combat becomes calloused toward the enemy that they are facing is almost always high,” said Andrew M. Exum, a former Army officer who did combat tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and is now senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a Washington policy group. “There is always, always, always the temptation to abuse a detainee or pose for a picture with some dead fighter. And that’s why noncommissioned officers and commissioned officers have to be extra vigilant.”
 
earth_as_one
#168
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

T....The Taliban have made no secret of those incidents where they have disrespected a body or living soldier.....

Link please? I am unaware of any videos of the Taliban pissing on some dead marines. I'm sure we would have heard about it. I never did, but maybe I missed something.

My understanding is that the Taliban are religious zealous who follow a strict code of behavior or face eternal damnation. The Taliban can cut off people's heads and arms as punishments for crimes but I don't think they can piss on human remains or commit other degrading acts against a dead body, just like they can't charge interest on a loan. If they sin, they go straight to hell upon death, without any virgins.

Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

Wow. So much ignorance and so much hatred in such few words!

BTW You should know that anyone who believes that Israel has a right to exist is a Zionist, whether they are Jewish or not.

I am a Zionist. There are Zionists in every country. Many live in Canada. We're everywhere. And we are the majority of the world's population. And anti-Zionism is doomed to be defeated. The thing about hatred is that while it can sometimes be destructive and even lethal for the people hated, it's always destructive for the people who hate.

You are right that Zionists are everywhere, but you are wrong that they are the majority. Most people don't care and are neither Jewish nor Christian. Most of the world is unaware of Christian and Jewish religious prophecies which claim that all the homes, property, bank accounts, silverware, family portraits, beds, clothing... in this region were given to Jews by God. Some people (non-Zionists like myself) believe that people living in this area own their homes, property, bank accounts, .... regardless of what other believe regarding God's intent. The majority of the world doesn't believe in religious based entitlement and view it as being just as repugnant as race based entitlement (racism) or sex based entitlement (sexism). But you are right, that zealous people who believe that Jews have a God given right to cleanse Palestine of non-Jews and a right to take everything that belongs to them are everywhere. The majority of the world, when informed about Zionists believe Zionists are religious Zealots who practice a form of ethnic cleansing and religious based discrimination.
 
TenPenny
+1
#169
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Link please? I am unaware of any videos of the Taliban pissing on some dead marines. I'm sure we would have heard about it. I never did, but maybe I missed something.

I'm pretty sure that anyone who can actually read can see that he said 'disrespecting' the bodies, not 'pissing on' them.

Even you should be able to grasp that, perhaps your reading comprehension is clouded by your hiqab.
 
earth_as_one
#170
Please post a link to something which supports the claim that the Taliban disrespect corpses.

BTW, I'm a guy and agnostic. I consider all religious zealots to be equally crazy and intolerant.
 
TenPenny
#171
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

I consider all religious zealots to be equally crazy and intolerant.

Unless they're muslims, in which case they're not zealots, they're just happy reasonable people.
 
earth_as_one
#172
I think Jewish and Christian zealots are just as crazy as Muslim ones. I don't discriminate on the basis of religion.
 
TenPenny
#173
1. The veil must cover the whole body.
2. Women's clothes must not be thin.
3. Women's clothes must not be decorated and colourful.
4. Women's clothes must not be narrow and tight to prevent the seditious limbs from being noticed. The veil must not be thin.
5. Women must not perfume themselves. If a perfumed woman passes by a crowd of men, she is considered to be an adulteress.
6. Women's clothes must not resemble men's clothes.

"In addition,

1. They must not perfume themselves.
2. They must not wear adorning clothes.
3. They must not wear thin clothes.
4. They must not wear narrow and tight clothes.
5. They must cover their entire bodies.
6. Their clothes must not resemble men's clothes.
7. Muslim women's clothes must not resemble non-Muslim women's clothes.
8. Their foot ornaments must not produce sound.
9. They must not wear sound-producing garments.
10. They must not walk in the middle of streets.
11. They must not go out of their houses without their husband's permission.
12. They must not talk to strange men.
13. If it is necessary to talk, they must talk in a low voice and without laughter.
14. They must not look at strangers.
15. They must not mix with strangers."
 
earth_as_one
#174
I'm agnostic. IMO, the above is discriminatory. But so is the Zionist State of Israel tossing a Muslim family onto the street, so their house can be redeemed by a Jewish family:

IMO, this form of colonization, discrimination and ethnic cleansing is the root cause of violence in area.

BTW, the majority of the world agrees with me. So does most UN member states and most UN observers watching this conflict.:
.:Middle East Online:::. (external - login to view)
Last edited by earth_as_one; Jan 16th, 2012 at 12:51 PM..
 
TenPenny
#175
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

As an agnostic, I'd have to say the above is discriminatory. But so is the Zionist State of Israel tossing a Muslim family onto the street, so their house can be redeemed by Jewish family:

I knew that you'd bring Israel into it sooner or later, you're incapable of not bringing Israel into any discussion.
 
earth_as_one
#176
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I knew that you'd bring Israel into it sooner or later, you're incapable of not bringing Israel into any discussion.

I'm incapable of letting bull$hit stand unchallenged. oleoleolanda claimed that they were a Zionist and that Zionists are a majority. I said that's BS and posted references to support my point.

captain morgan claimed that the Taliban disrespect human remains. I said I was unaware that the Taliban did this and asked for a link.

You posted a bunch of crap implying that Muslims are inherently sexist, when in fact the Quran requires none of what you posted. Most Muslims who treat women poorly, follow cultural/tribal traditions not the Quran which only says people should dress modestly and not show too much skin or flash fancy jewelry.

BTW, our MSM, political leaders, crazy rabid news pundits at FoxNews and Islamic hate mongering websites like the ReligionOfPeace.com promote many inaccuracies about Islam. Some of the above sources deliberate lie and mislead regarding Islam and Muslims. Therefore I'll post what a Muslim scholar has written on this subject:

What the Qur’an says about women’s rights
by Aftab Ahmad Khan


Prior to the advent of Islam, women were widely regarded as non-entities in many societies around the world. Indeed, it has taken centuries for women to gain rights equal to those of men, at least in theory, if not in practice. But the struggle for complete gender equality has not ended.

Within this struggle, many fingers point to Islam as one of the biggest hurdles to women's rights. But, when we consult the Qur'an, this does not appear to be the case. Traditionally conservative customs embedded in society do not live up to the Qur'an's vision of dignity for women.

The Qur'an says: "O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward God in Whom ye claim (your rights) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bear you)" (Qur'an 4:1).

This verse clearly demonstrates that men and women in Islam are equal to each other both intrinsically – within the very act of creation – and extrinsically, with respect to both their relationship with one another and their duties before God. In fact, the singling out of women at the end of this verse for special reverence as de facto mothers is the only indication of relative inequality, albeit in favour of women.

In pre-Islamic Arabia, parents would often commit female infanticide because they considered the birth of a daughter an inauspicious omen for the family. The Qur'an condemned feelings of shame at the birth of a girl, and said of those who commit such acts: "He hideth himself from the folk because of the evil of that whereof he hath had tidings, (asking himself): Shall he keep it in contempt, or bury it beneath the dust. Verily evil is their judgment" (Qur'an 16:58-59).

Fourteen centuries after Islam's beginnings and the progress, development, education and enlightenment that followed, we still observe the stigma attached to having a daughter in certain parts of the world, like in much of South Asia, for example. In a society where men often support the entire family, the birth of a son is seen as greater cause for celebration.

Though the empowerment of women, resulting from better education and employment, is changing societal structures, we must do more to honour the gender equality expounded by the Qur'an. Forced marriages, "honour" killings, and women's confinement to the home by culture, tradition and societal norms have no endorsement from Islam.

Political and religious leaders in some of the more traditionally conservative Muslim societies, such as the tribal areas in Pakistan, should respect the Qur'anic view of women's status and rights and work to build on that dictum.

Islam granted rights of inheritance to women 12 centuries before they were granted to European women: "Unto the men (of a family) belongeth a share of that which parents and nearer kindred leave, and unto the women a share of that which parents and near kindred leave, whether it be little or much – a legal share" (Qur'an 4:7).

Islam was revealed at a time and in a society in which women themselves had been inherited as property; it was nothing short of revolutionary for them to have their own inheritance rights recognised.

In Muslim discourse, the debate over women's rights, or any rights for that matter, is always understood in the context of rights and responsibilities from an Islamic perspective. To respect these rights and responsibilities and to understand our role in the development of a society, we must educate ourselves. Education and knowledge are mandatory upon men and women in Islam.

After all, it is education that serves as a catalyst for change. "Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Are those who know equal with those who know not? But only men of understanding will pay heed" (Qur'an 39:9).

The teachings of Islam must take precedence over the cultures and customs with embedded bias against women's constructive role in many Muslim societies, ironically in the name of the very religion that has granted women far greater rights than these social structures are willing to accept. Any empowerment efforts in accordance with the Qur'an's vision, which upholds women's status before the law, must be fully supported. To those who would deny women such rights, we ask, "Will they not then ponder on the Qur'an?" (4:82).

What the Qur’an says about women’s rights by Aftab Ahmad Khan - Common Ground News Service (external - login to view)
Last edited by earth_as_one; Jan 16th, 2012 at 01:10 PM..
 
DaSleeper
+1
#177
I guess those aren't real muslims in this video..................

HD 21 Oct NEWEST video of Gadafi Still Alive Arrested then Got Shot to the HEAD - YouTube

 
TenPenny
#178
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post


You posted a bunch of crap implying that Muslims are inherently sexist, when in fact the Quran requires none of what you posted. Most Muslims who treat women poorly, follow cultural/tribal traditions not the Quran which only says people should dress modestly and not show too much skin or flash fancy jewelry.

If you were blessed with the ability to think, you would realize that what I posted was about the Taliban's rules, not Muslims in general.

But for you to understand that would require you taking off your blinders, which you seem incapable of doing.
 
earth_as_one
#179
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

I guess those aren't real muslims in this video...........

An angry mob finally getting revenge against the absolute dictator who oppressed them for decades says more about human nature than their religion.

Here is an example of the Christian equivalent:

1989: Romania's 'first couple' executed
Deposed Romanian president Nicolae Ceausescu and his wife Elena have been shot by a firing squad after a secret military tribunal found them both guilty of crimes against the state. They were charged and convicted of genocide and undermining the national economy among a series of other offences, officials said.
News of their death was announced to the people of Romania on national television amid reports the couple had been found smuggling large amounts of money out of the country.
A stunned reaction from the public gave way to scenes of delight and a public outpouring on the streets to celebrate.

BBC ON THIS DAY | 25 | 1989: Romania's 'first couple' executed (external - login to view)



Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

If you were blessed with the ability to think, you would realize that what I posted was about the Taliban's rules, not Muslims in general.

But for you to understand that would require you taking off your blinders, which you seem incapable of doing.

Sorry I thought you just posted a load of crap without context, like this:

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

1. The veil must cover the whole body.
2. Women's clothes must not be thin.
3. Women's clothes must not be decorated and colourful.
4. Women's clothes must not be narrow and tight to prevent the seditious limbs from being noticed. The veil must not be thin.
5. Women must not perfume themselves. If a perfumed woman passes by a crowd of men, she is considered to be an adulteress.
6. Women's clothes must not resemble men's clothes.

"In addition,

1. They must not perfume themselves.
2. They must not wear adorning clothes.
3. They must not wear thin clothes.
4. They must not wear narrow and tight clothes.
5. They must cover their entire bodies.
6. Their clothes must not resemble men's clothes.
7. Muslim women's clothes must not resemble non-Muslim women's clothes.
8. Their foot ornaments must not produce sound.
9. They must not wear sound-producing garments.
10. They must not walk in the middle of streets.
11. They must not go out of their houses without their husband's permission.
12. They must not talk to strange men.
13. If it is necessary to talk, they must talk in a low voice and without laughter.
14. They must not look at strangers.
15. They must not mix with strangers."

 
Goober
#180
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

If you were blessed with the ability to think, you would realize that what I posted was about the Taliban's rules, not Muslims in general.

But for you to understand that would require you taking off your blinders, which you seem incapable of doing.

He is quite selective in his thinking. Jews Bad - All Jews are bad. Israel is a tyranny.
His hate and prejudice prevent the rational use of impartiality.

Note this one line
I am a non-violent pacifist secular humanist. If everyone shared my philosophy there would be no violence, war or crime.

He is so wrapped up in thinking, using the term quite loosely that he believes people cannot see thru the crap he posts.

He must be such a joy to be around, day after long boring day.
 

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