Marines and Honour


gerryh
#121
defense of...is support

non condemnation... is tacit support.
 
CDNBear
+2
#122
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I saw that post and while I am in no way the poster-boy for forum manners, that was pretty low.

How true. It wasn't surprising given he's turned to fabricating claims about what business owners in Northern Ontario have allegedly told him about First Nations people. Despite being completely contradictory to their own sworn testimony to two government commissions.

Quote:

In the end, Canuck is pulling at straws and hoping that by virtue of one miniscule little technicality (in his eyes) that he can make an argument and extrapolate this vagary to support a losing position... Hence the over-posting of dresses with camo fabric.

That's the proverbial hitting the nail on the head.

Quote:

Pretty sad, really.

Although I do feel sorry for him, and anyone that is forced to be in his presence, I like dark humour, so I find a lot of humour in his pathetic flailing.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

defense of...is support

non condemnation... is tacit support.

Stop it, you're starting to sound like EAO again.

I agree, there is no honour in what they did. It was wrong. But I can understand why. As a mere human being, I can honestly say, I may have done so myself, if placed in that position. The furor, is still puzzling. That doesn't mean I support what they did.
 
#juan
+1
#123
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Drat!.... I suppose "shot and pissed on" is one of those favoured sayings gone politically incorrect now.

It's what you get for pissing around...
 
Niflmir
+3
#124
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I agree, there is no honour in what they did. It was wrong. But I can understand why. As a mere human being, I can honestly say, I may have done so myself, if placed in that position.

Yeah, that's pretty much the case. I'd love to say that I would never do something repellant like that, but that's just optimism bias.

Ugly situations like this are why I just don't support wars in general. If you think about it long enough, you know that all sorts of things like this are going to happen, and worse. Corpse desecration, killing innocents, rape, displaced individuals, kidnappings, destruction of property, torture. I don't have a very involved imagination either.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+3
#125

Rodney King Beating Video - YouTube



This is a thumbnail sketch of an incident. What you see are police beating a man when he is down for the count. What you don't see is the high speed pursuit which led them to this place. You don't see the fact that he was tazered twice and still would not get down.
You don't see the adrenaline flowing through the officers veins. You don't see the drugs pulsing through the downed man's veins.

You only see what is on the video.

I don't condone beating a man when he is down nor do I condone desecrating a dead body (even that of an enemy).

What these soldiers did was a mistake, but far be it for anyone here to sit in judgment without first considering what led to the moment where men would unzip their flies and piss on the corpse of men they had just killed.
 
captain morgan
+3
#126
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

How true. It wasn't surprising given he's turned to fabricating claims about what business owners in Northern Ontario have allegedly told him about First Nations people. Despite being completely contradictory to their own sworn testimony to two government commissions.

I suspect that those folks that maintain prejudicial views congregate with others that hold similar beliefs.. It evolves into a self-fulfilling prophecy when an individual crafts a discussion to move in only one direction, the results are essentially pre-determined.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I agree, there is no honour in what they did. It was wrong. But I can understand why. As a mere human being, I can honestly say, I may have done so myself, if placed in that position. The furor, is still puzzling. That doesn't mean I support what they did.

Well put.

In the end, although I do not offer overwhelming support for their actions, I can certainly appreciate that we will never truly know what kind of emotions/motivation were running through the minds of these Marines... Let's face facts, not many folks are cut-out to do the job, in those circumstances, that these Marines were asked to do.. That in itself does not excuse them from their actions, but it goes a helluva long way in my belief that they should be offered some latitude on this.
 
Spade
#127
The version of "With God on Our Side"-posted earlier on this thread, cannot match Joan Baez's (1966). The werse that is most telling is:

"If Gawd's on our side
He'll stop the next war."

Joan Baez - With God on Our Side Live 1966 - YouTube

 
Cannuck
+1
#128
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

The version of "With God on Our Side"-posted earlier on this thread, cannot match Joan Baez's (1966).

That's blasphemy. Buddy Miller is a Gawd!!!
 
PoliticalNick
#129
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Like the kind of respect that sees journalists beheaded on television?

The kind of honor that promotes these Taliban 'soldiers' to drag a body through the streets behind a truck until there's nothing left to drag?

How about the kind of respect for life that sees women marked a nothing more than chattels or tossing a bucket of acid in the faces of little girls?

Is this what you mean by respect for human life?



Like Bear pointed-out; NATO was asked to come in and help a failed state... It's kinda hard to make the assertion that they were invaded when their own gvt pleaded with the international community to come in and provide this much needed assistance.



Ain't that the truth... The only thing you get from the average leftard when they view a live beheading by a terrorist is a "tsk, tsk; what a shame - pass the tea and crumpets please".. But for a US Marine to disrespect a slain foe, well, that's grounds for capital punishment.

I do not agree with the things the taliban did in their regime. Most of it is disgusting, brual, and goes against my idea of freedom.

Please do show some documentation of where the govt of Afghanistan asked NATO or the UN or the US or anyone else to send military forces in to help a failing nation. Considering the govt was the taliban I doubt you can provide anything legitimate and are just repeating the propaganda you have been spoon-fed by GW Bush and his war-hawk friends.

Make no mistake, this war was about controling the ME and central Asia and the oil and resources available. It is a simple matter of money and profitability. There is no honor on either side and that is a fact you should face up to one day.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#130
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Please do show some documentation of where the govt of Afghanistan asked NATO or the UN or the US or anyone else to send military forces in to help a failing nation. Considering the govt was the taliban I doubt you can provide anything legitimate and are just repeating the propaganda you have been spoon-fed by GW Bush and his war-hawk friends.

I believe the American Government asked the Taliban to hand over Osama Bin Laden and they said he rode away on a white horse.

Quote:

Make no mistake, this war was about controling the ME and central Asia and the oil and resources available. It is a simple matter of money and profitability. There is no honor on either side and that is a fact you should face up to one day.

Funny, I thought it was about what happened on 9/11.
 
Cliffy
#131
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

I believe the American Government asked the Taliban to hand over Osama Bin Laden and they said he rode away on a white horse.

Funny, I thought it was about what happened on 9/11.

It wasn't. It was just what we were told, but it was utter BS, just like every other BS reason we have been spoon fed to justify killing innocent civilians. 911 was very convenient, way too convenient, when you consider invasion plans were in the works long before 911.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#132
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Invasion plans were in the works long before 911.

For Afghanistan? Really, show me those plans please.
 
Cannuck
#133
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

For Afghanistan? Really, show me those plans please.

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | US 'planned attack on Taleban' (external - login to view)

I doubt that anybody with intimate knowledge of the plan will make them public. But hell, the US had a plan to invade Canada and I'm sure they probably still do. What else are soldiers suppose to do when they aren't fighting wars if they aren't planning for wars?
 
Spade
+1
#134
The Grand Chessboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#135
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | US 'planned attack on Taleban' (external - login to view)

I doubt that anybody with intimate knowledge of the plan will make them public. But hell, the US had a plan to invade Canada and I'm sure they probably still do. What else are soldiers suppose to do when they aren't fighting wars if they aren't planning for wars?

This news snippet has nothing to do with what Cliffy posted. Maybe you should run along and look for some more camo pictures or get planning your next racial troll.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

The Grand Chessboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)

 
gerryh
+1
#136
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Stop it, you're starting to sound like EAO again.

I agree, there is no honour in what they did. It was wrong. But I can understand why. As a mere human being, I can honestly say, I may have done so myself, if placed in that position. The furor, is still puzzling. That doesn't mean I support what they did.


LOL...I'm the one sounding like eao? Think about this now. eao rationalizes Palistinian terrorist acts by stating things similar to the way you and others on this thread are doing with this act by u.s. marines. "It may not be right but I understand why they did it". "What the Palistinians do, AQ did/does may not be right, or is definitely wrong, BUT, because of the things the west/Israel has done in the past/present I understand why they do/did it."
 
Goober
+1
#137
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

LOL...I'm the one sounding like eao? Think about this now. eao rationalizes Palistinian terrorist acts by stating things similar to the way you and others on this thread are doing with this act by u.s. marines. "It may not be right but I understand why they did it". "What the Palistinians do, AQ did/does may not be right, or is definitely wrong, BUT, because of the things the west/Israel has done in the past/present I understand why they do/did it."

What they did was wrong, but as I mentioned earlier you can understand what drives Soldiers to do this.
Did they execute - torture live prisoners - No.
What they did was unprofessional. But I along with the Taliban are not making an issue of it.
 
Ron in Regina
+1
#138
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | US 'planned attack on Taleban' (external - login to view)

I doubt that anybody with intimate knowledge of the plan will make them public. But hell, the US had a plan to invade Canada and I'm sure they probably still do. What else are soldiers suppose to do when they aren't fighting wars if they aren't planning for wars?

War Plan Red - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (external - login to view)

I always thought this would'a made a great basis for a novel
based on an alternate dimension or multiple dimentions, etc...
where this actually took place. If someone here writes it, I'll buy
a copy.
 
Cliffy
#139
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

What they did was wrong, but as I mentioned earlier you can understand what drives Soldiers to do this.
Did they execute - torture live prisoners - No.
What they did was unprofessional. But I along with the Taliban are not making an issue of it.

And how do you know that? Who knows what goes on over there unless it is filmed? They have been clips shown to suggest that torture and executions are performed by NATO troupes. Why not in this case? If they did, do you think the military brass would be advertising it?

Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

This news snippet has nothing to do with what Cliffy posted.

I'm not sure what your criteria is for which evidence is and which is not acceptable, but it does seem pointless to even try to reason with you as long as you have this attitude - .
 
CDNBear
+1
#140
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

LOL...I'm the one sounding like eao?

Yes.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Think about this now. eao rationalizes Palistinian terrorist acts by stating things similar to the way you and others on this thread are doing with this act by u.s. marines. "It may not be right but I understand why they did it". "What the Palistinians do, AQ did/does may not be right, or is definitely wrong, BUT, because of the things the west/Israel has done in the past/present I understand why they do/did it."

I'm not blaming anyone else for the actions of these Marines. They alone own this.

Oh, and btw, I understand why some Palestinians resent Israel enough to commit murder/terrorism. Like I understand why some Natives join warrior societies. Like I understand why some Palestinians and some Natives strive for change via peaceful protest.

Do you know which one I throw my support behind?
Last edited by CDNBear; Jan 14th, 2012 at 03:59 PM..
 
ironsides
#141
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

The version of "With God on Our Side"-posted earlier on this thread, cannot match Joan Baez's (1966). The werse that is most telling is:

"If Gawd's on our side
He'll stop the next war."

Gawd Zapped her.
 
Cannuck
#142
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

This news snippet has nothing to do with what Cliffy posted.

Then you obviously didn't bother to read it. Ask me if I'm surprised.
 
Goober
#143
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Then you obviously didn't bother to read it. Ask me if I'm surprised.

I read it. So a Pakistani source is to be trusted. Where did the 17,000 Russian troops go.
Shxt man- That has been flying around the net for a long time.
Do you believe it?
 
damngrumpy
#144
This has gone on throughout history the difference is someone took pictures and
made the public. It has happened in every war, and in fact worse things were
done in some cases. These guys have been fighting these miserable excuses
for human beings and I suppose hatred in stronger than discretion.
Is this any different than dragging the bodies of American troops through the
streets of some of these countries?
Those who don't know this has been going on should think twice. Do you really
think Osama Bin Laden got a full funeral in accordance withe the articles of his
faith? If you believe that How many bridges would one like to buy, I have one
that crosses the Bay in San Francisco.
 
L Gilbert
#145
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Urinating on corpses is a time honored tradition for showing opposing forces that the victors are morally superior. It has been going on since the dawn of history, but now we get to see this glorious celebration in the safety of our own homes. Even primates will urinate on the corpses of dead members of competing tribes.

They would be the ones being urinated on if they were not morally superior. After all, the victors write the history, and are therefore the morally correct, by the definition that they themselves write.

So humans have to imitate primates? And because it is a tradition means it isn't childish?
Odd.
 
oleoleolanda
+4
#146
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

The insurgents are not hiding among the local population, they are the local population that the invading forces have killed their families. These are not fundamentalist terrorists, they are just people who are fighting against an invading force who out gun them with superior fire power. They use whatever means at their disposal.

Who the hell thinks that we have a right to invade countries and kill innocent civilians and gets upset when those civilians start shooting back? This whole argument is beyond stupid. We invaded, we killed. We have no higher moral ground. We are the *******s killing their families. Trying to justify this sh!t is insanity.

Cliffy, that's not the case. The Taliban are followers of a political ideology--Islamism, which was actually influenced by European fascism and is as monstrous an ideology as western Nazism. And most Afghanistani are NOT followers of the ideology, and in fact were terrorized by the Taliban, especially the women. And they don't just hide among the local population--they often threaten and terrorize them into silence or compliance. Did you hear of the young boy they excuted a while back for being a "traitor"? I can't remember the exact age, but it was a little boy. To understand the Taliban is like trying to understand Hitler and the concentration camp guards. Kinda hard to do but it doesn't mean that mentality doesn't exist.

I think pissing on dead bodies, even of the Taliban, really is wrong and I think the US military does as well, since the soldiers are being investigated. For all the horrors soldiers in Afghanistan experience, I think the vast majority would beand are respectful of enemy bodies.

I'm a little suspicious as to why the video was released a year after the event. I suspect it has something to do with attempts to negotiate with the Taliban, and it's being used by either Islamists from Al Qaeda, or some in the Taliban to stirr up outrage and walk out of the negotiations. In which case, I'd be investigating who was behind the camera as well.
 
ironsides
+1
#147
I have no doubt that we have contingency plans to occupy if needed just about every country in the world, and in some cases them doing the same or worse to us. Just look what Hugo Chavez tried to do. This was not a shoot from the hip reaction by our State Department, just check out her video.

"MIAMI - President Hugo Chavez (external - login to view) on Friday announced an "administrative shutdown" of the Venezuelan consulate in Miami, in response to the U.S. State Department’s decision to expel the consul in that diplomatic post, Livia Acosta, who had been accused of participating in an Iranian plot against the United States.
The administrative shutdown, which Chavez described as an interim measure while his government makes a final decision, leaves more than 200,000 Venezuelans in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina without a consular site nearby where they can turn to for assistance.
In a speech before the National Assembly, Chavez said that the State Department’s decision against Acosta was unfair, spurred by the pressure exerted by the extreme-right sectors that exist in Miami."
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/international/americas/view.bg?&articleid=1395878&page=1&listingType=inta mer (external - login to view)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16461697 (external - login to view)
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+3
#148
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Then you obviously didn't bother to read it. Ask me if I'm surprised.

I did read it, but then I am talking to a moron which comes as no great surprise .
 
PoliticalNick
#149
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

I believe the American Government asked the Taliban to hand over Osama Bin Laden and they said he rode away on a white horse.

Your documentation is "what I believe"....too funny!

Quote:

Funny, I thought it was about what happened on 9/11.

I thought you were far more intelligent than to believe that bullsh*t, of course you seem to believe the taliban asked the US and NATO to send in the troops.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#150
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Your documentation is "what I believe"....too funny!

Have you been drinking?

Quote:

I thought you were far more intelligent than to believe that bullsh*t, of course you seem to believe the taliban asked the US and NATO to send in the troops.

Really where did you draw that conclusion. I'll wait til you sober up then get a quote.
 

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