Rex Murphy: Removing Julian Assange’s halo


View Poll Results: Assange is responsible for a number of Innocent Deaths
Yes 11 50.00%
No 5 22.73%
He was right to release the files 7 31.82%
He was wrong to release the files 6 27.27%
Do not give a hoot about repercussions. We had to know. 1 4.55%
The US Govt will eventually catch him 4 18.18%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

captain morgan
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Yes, they will use the law, they will, however, manufacture a reason, like hookers and blow. And I could say you are an *** kisser for supporting their reign of terror under the BS title of War on Terror.


I understand that Assange isn't challenging the notion that he had sex with those women... Doesn't sound to me like the hookers have been manufactured.
 
Goober
+1
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

And therein lies the crux of the problem. 10 second sound bites. We are trained to look at microscopic events and not connect the dots. There is a reason why people are willing to die to get back at the US. That reason is called foreign policy. Iran's hatred of the US goes back to the Shaw. Interference in the internal affairs of the middle east are at the root of all Muslim and Arab animosity toward the US and Britain and now, with our involvement in Afghanistan and Libya, Canada. But I can understand why people can't see past their noses. We have been conditioned that way on purpose. That is why I don't have a TV, read news papers (an oxymoron) or magazines. You should try it some time. It would help you see a little clearer.

If it was not the US it would be Russia or France. Yes the Us is not guilt free - It is pure power politics.

And Religious fukheads had nothing to do with it.
Nor the way the people are treated, taught to hate, taught to exact vengeance, taught that honor is not to be sullied, the Jews are the problems, oh yes and the Great Satan, almost forgot the mantra.

No I guess everything wrong with those countires is the fault of the US.

And learn about Iran and the US - Religion on the Iranian side is used by the bucketload. They have sent hit squads to a variety of countries to kill Iranians. Jesus, blame the US for that to.

Everything these countries do that is morally repugnant, wrong, inhumane - Well God Damm it is the US again.

Do you not tire of that old record playing.
 
Cliffy
+1
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I understand that Assange isn't challenging the notion that he had sex with those women... Doesn't sound to me like the hookers have been manufactured.

It is a BS charge but it would be better to be in a Swedish jail than a in a US jail under false pretenses. I do recall that he did deny the charge and was released because the charges were false. Why else would he go willingly now if he hadn't weighed the possibilities of time in Sweden verses time in the US. He knows damn well that he could not get a fair trial because any charges the US came up with would be BS and they have already convicted him in the press. Look how many on here have already convicted him.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

If it was not the US it would be Russia or France. Yes the Us is not guilt free - It is pure power politics.

And Religious fukheads had nothing to do with it.
Nor the way the people are treated, taught to hate, taught to exact vengeance, taught that honor is not to be sullied, the Jews are the problems, oh yes and the Great Satan, almost forgot the mantra.

No I guess everything wrong with those countires is the fault of the US.

And learn about Iran and the US - Religion on the Iranian side is used by the bucketload. They have sent hit squads to a variety of countries to kill Iranians. Jesus, blame the US for that to.

Everything these countries do that is morally repugnant, wrong, inhumane - Well God Damm it is the US again.

Do you not tire of that old record playing.

Ah, you do see the truth, you just don't want to accept it.
 
Goober
+1
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

It is a BS charge but it would be better to be in a Swedish jail than a in a US jail under false pretenses. I do recall that he did deny the charge and was released because the charges were false. Why else would he go willingly now if he hadn't weighed the possibilities of time in Sweden verses time in the US. He knows damn well that he could not get a fair trial because any charges the US came up with would be BS and they have already convicted him in the press. Look how many on here have already convicted him.


Ah, you do see the truth, you just don't want to accept it.

No i see that you have found him innocent yet the records of the document releases were made public by himself. He has hung himself. Yet you fail to see that.
Go thru Google and look for his press releases and interviews. He hung himself.
I did not have to convict him, he did it himself.

And if a indictment is brought by a Grand Jury then the US will follow thru.

So tell me why he is innocent?
 
captain morgan
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

It is a BS charge but it would be better to be in a Swedish jail than a in a US jail under false pretenses. I do recall that he did deny the charge and was released because the charges were false. Why else would he go willingly now if he hadn't weighed the possibilities of time in Sweden verses time in the US. He knows damn well that he could not get a fair trial because any charges the US came up with would be BS and they have already convicted him in the press. Look how many on here have already convicted him.

My understanding is that Assange was fighting extradition from the UK to Sweden to face those charges. If memory serves, he initially fled and 'spoke' through his UK lawyer stating that he didn't want to face trial in Sweden because the prosecutor was a known feminist that would not provide a fair representation of the events
 
Goober
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

My understanding is that Assange was fighting extradition from the UK to Sweden to face those charges. If memory serves, he initially fled and 'spoke' through his UK lawyer stating that he didn't want to face trial in Sweden because the prosecutor was a known feminist that would not provide a fair representation of the events

Rape charges were laid due to the fact that while he was having sex with the women they asked him to stop.He did not, then it is rape. There was more than 1 women and more than 1 charge.
But it is all a US Plot.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Freedom of speech is a virtue of the right????? Really? Surprising to me, I'm not "of the right" and freedom of speech is a virtue that I hold quite dear.

That's because the double-speak and hypocrisy of the media is deluding you.

The true right value freedom. The left value control.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You might be right. But in all honesty, it would be quite difficult to prove any direct connection to Assange's actions.

And the U.S. admits wikileaks has not been a threat.

www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011...ate-department (external - login to view)
Last edited by mentalfloss; Dec 27th, 2011 at 02:25 PM..
 
Kreskin
#98
The right values social freedom? When did that start?
 
mentalfloss
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by KreskinView Post

The right values social freedom? When did that start?

You think the statue of liberty is an icon of the left?
 
Goober
+1
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

That's because the double-speak and hypocrisy of the media is deluding you.

The true right value freedom. The left value control.



And the U.S. admits wikileaks has not been a threat.

WikiLeaks has caused little lasting damage, says US state department | Media | The Guardian (external - login to view)

Unless you are an Afghan providing information to the US. Wonder what their opinion is???
 
Kreskin
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

You think the statue of liberty is an icon of the left?

Have you heard of the following debate issues? Roe v Wade? Same sex marriage? Gays in the military? Being gay at all?
 
Goober
+1
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

That's because the double-speak and hypocrisy of the media is deluding you.

The true right value freedom. The left value control.



And the U.S. admits wikileaks has not been a threat.

WikiLeaks has caused little lasting damage, says US state department | Media | The Guardian (external - login to view)

So if the Left values control, they really must adore Harper???
 
Machjo
#103
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You can babble all you want. It doesn't change the fact that Assange publishing the names of individuals aiding Coalition Forces, isn't free speech.

Hence the US indictment on the way.

The US has talked about charging him but won't in the end. If they could do so they would have a long time ago but since all of his acticvities were outside of US jurisdiction there is not much tehy can do.

As for the rape allegations though, while it is theoretically possible for US agents to hire some women to make such claims, I highly doubt they would do that owing to the risks involved. After all, imagine that during the court procedings one of the women changed her mind and came out with the ruse. Immediately the US would be suspected. I doubt very much the US would do that for that reason alone. For that reason, I believe either the rape allegations are true or based on some misunderstanding, but not likely some secret US plot to frame him. It would be jsut too riskly for the US to do that and it would not be work the risk.
 
Cliffy
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

No i see that you have found him innocent yet the records of the document releases were made public by himself. He has hung himself. Yet you fail to see that.
Go thru Google and look for his press releases and interviews. He hung himself.
I did not have to convict him, he did it himself.

And if a indictment is brought by a Grand Jury then the US will follow thru.

So tell me why he is innocent?

I never said he was innocent. The bull sh!t part is that he is being persecuted in the public opinion realm to coverup the much greater crimes of human rights violations and mass murder of innocents by allied forces in unprovoked and trumped up wars. He is being used as a scapegoat by the real guilty parties.
 
Goober
+1
#105
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I never said he was innocent. The bull sh!t part is that he is being persecuted in the public opinion realm to coverup the much greater crimes of human rights violations and mass murder of innocents by allied forces in unprovoked and trumped up wars. He is being used as a scapegoat by the real guilty parties.

What was it Stalin said - 1 death is a tragedy one million is a statistic. You condemn one for killing yet

Assange is also guilty of causing deaths.

Tell me the difference.

And he is not important enough to rate the Title of scapegoat. Never was, never will be.
 
Cliffy
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

What was it Stalin said - 1 death is a tragedy one million is a statistic. You condemn one for killing yet

Assange is also guilty of causing deaths.

Tell me the difference.

And he is not important enough to rate the Title of scapegoat. Never was, never will be.

Where is the proof that anyone has died? Or is that just an assumption on your part
 
Goober
+2
#107
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Where is the proof that anyone has died? Or is that just an assumption on your part

Read the news - I believe it was the Guardian that stopped posting his info as they were able to ID quite easily a number of persons. Do you think the Taliban is stupid.
What does the Taliban do to people and their familiies that do not follow their decrees.
Take them out for lunch?
 
Machjo
#108
I was just thinking of something though. Where was Assange when he engaged in these activities. I'd imagine most jurisdictions do have laws concerning putting people's lives unnecessarily at risk, no?

So while he may not have broken US laws, he may very well have broken some other country's domestic laws and could potentialy be charged and tried for that of course, with the US being more than happy to provide any assistance it can in helping prove that he had negligently put people's lives and safety unnecessarily at risk or even simple privacy laws if not that.

For example, let's say Assange was in Canada when he'd done these things, at the very least Canadian privacy laws would apply with regards to those Afghans, no?
 
JLM
#109
If he was smart (with all the electronic possibilities these day) he have done all his law breaking on the high seas!
 
SLM
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

That's because the double-speak and hypocrisy of the media is deluding you.

The true right value freedom. The left value control.

And those of us that don't fall neatly at either end of the spectrum? What, we have no values then?

And I'm deluded why exactly? Because I don't see things the way that you do?
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+3
#111
For those that seem ok with this information being released to the world, would you feel any differently if it was personal data held by either a corporation, a bank, VISA, or the government about their customers (including possibly yourself) that had been released to the public? Would there be a sense of outrage or a sense that well, its best everybody knows anyways.

Is this a 'because it doesn't affect me its good to know' type situation?
 
captain morgan
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

But it is all a US Plot.

Yep, considering that the USA had some of their cables leaked (among hundreds of other nations), it must be a plot.

The foilers are really having a field day with this one.
 
Goober
#113
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Yep, considering that the USA had some of their cables leaked (among hundreds of other nations), it must be a plot.

The foilers are really having a field day with this one.

I have no problem with most of the data, such as the reporters getting killed.
But when it identifies people, that places them at risk. The Afghanis are in all likelihood hiding or dead.
The Taliban will exact vengeance on their extended families.

But for some that complain about innocents these people do not seem to matter. Why, they were cooperating with the US. That is one main reason. They go into denial. Tell me who was killed.
Some people are so ffn dumb, but then they are protecting their so called morals. An innocent person is just as dead, no matter who kills them, the US or the Taliban. Ty and explain the difference to me. Why they do not matter.
FFn Sad.
 
mentalfloss
+1
#114
Quote: Originally Posted by KreskinView Post

Have you heard of the following debate issues? Roe v Wade? Same sex marriage? Gays in the military? Being gay at all?

Yes, these are the failings of the social conservatives. Or those on the left-hand side of the social freedom index.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

And those of us that don't fall neatly at either end of the spectrum? What, we have no values then?

Yes, those of us that don't fall neatly have no values.

We're completely valueless.

Wait, what?

Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

And I'm deluded why exactly? Because I don't see things the way that you do?

No, because the notion of one who is "right-minded" commonly understood as a conservative when those to the right are actually supposed to be libertarians.

Assange is right-minded as is Levant when it comes to freedom of information. The only difference between the two is how much they are willing to sacrifice security to achieve that end.
Last edited by mentalfloss; Dec 27th, 2011 at 08:07 PM..
 
SLM
+1
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

No, because the notion of one who is "right-minded" commonly understood as a conservative when those to the right are actually supposed to be libertarians.

So then it's the labels themselves that have no meaning and are without value then? Ethics, morals, principals cross social/political boundaries. At least, that's my point of view. I'm just trying to understand yours as you were the one that said that the principal of freedom of speech was a value of the right.
 
Cliffy
#116
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

So then it's the labels themselves that have no meaning and are without value then? Ethics, morals, principals cross social/political boundaries. At least, that's my point of view. I'm just trying to understand yours as you were the one that said that the principal of freedom of speech was a value of the right.

The right and the left both give freedom of speech a lot of lip service unless you disagree with them and then it is STFU.
 
Colpy
+2
#117
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

The right and the left both give freedom of speech a lot of lip service unless you disagree with them and then it is STFU.

There is a HUGE chasm between freedom of speech and treason (in the case of Manning) and offering aid, comfort, and information to the enemy (in the case of Assange)
 
Goober
#118
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

The right and the left both give freedom of speech a lot of lip service unless you disagree with them and then it is STFU.

Cliffy - I believe you are a good man. But I posed some questions for you.
 
gerryh
+2
#119
I voted both "he didn't have the right to post and he did have the right". He didn't have the right to post that which would put persons at risk. He did have a right to post those that did not, and/or that which had been redacted.

What I find "amusing" are those screaming about the posts possibly causing the death of innocents and scoffing at the "collateral damage" tag that he used, yet these same people will defend the "collateral damage" deaths caused by the "good guys" as unfortunate but a fact of war.
 
SLM
+2
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

The right and the left both give freedom of speech a lot of lip service unless you disagree with them and then it is STFU.

A lot of people do only give it lip service, from all points along the political spectrum. That denigrates the individual though, not the principal itself.
 

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