Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll


petros
#241
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Based on the huge increase in housing prices and seniors getting richer, it looks like adults will have to start living with their parents. What's worse is that the housing bubble is taking effect again and houses are actually 25% overvalued because of artificially low interest rates. Come five years from now, current house owners will have to downgrade if they can't afford the interest rate hike.

With the interest hike and high prices, no amount of 'money managing' will afford this..



Renovate.
 
mentalfloss
#242
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Renovate.

Petros, stop being selfish.
 
petros
#243
Renovate and add a basement suite. Create revenue and housing. Better?
 
mentalfloss
#244
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Renovate and add a basement suite. Create revenue and housing. Better?

People have the money to renovate?
 
petros
#245
No shortage of jobs and money in the west.
 
mentalfloss
#246
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

No shortage of jobs and money in the west.

We're talking about the entire country here.
 
petros
#247
Same train that ran 110+ years ago still runs today.
 
mentalfloss
#248
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Same train that ran 110+ years ago still runs today.

roflmao
 
Tonington
+2
#249
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

You think the young whipper snappers are to afraid to say that they want to steal our money?



This thread is about seniors not being keen on giving up publicly funded services, from the OP. It's not about anyone stealing anyone's money...you older folks keep referencing when you were young...it's not the same at all. It's apples and oranges in almost every conceivable metric. Demographics, what more needs to be said about that? You could get a good job with a high school education, we cannot. Manufacturing jobs that could raise a family were plentiful, now they are not. The cost of post-secondary education was much lower. Just since 1981 for instance, in your country the cost of a university degree has risen six fold, while the CPI increased only 2.5 times. Housing prices are astronomical. A twenty-five year old college graduate isn't living at home because they want to...my generation has the same goals, a house, a family, except it looks like years before we'll be able to afford any of that. I think I'm probably the exception in some cases, because I'm a cheap bastard who doesn't own a cell phone, or any iApple gadgets. Hell, I won't even pay the farmer down the road to remove snow from my driveway because I'm such a cheap bastard. I'd rather break my back for 45 minutes every morning than pay money which could be used to invest or pay down more debt.

I'd like to hear from any of those who seem to think my generation wants to steal from you, just exactly what you mean by that. I've paid my way through my degree, financed by loans which I am paying back, with interest. $500 a month, for the next ten years, actually nine years now, it was over ten years when I started making payments. That's half of what Cliffy lives on in one year! How is the job market or the composition of society in any way similar?

I don't want any sympathy from anyone, I'd just like to hear how it is they think that I want to steal their money, or how I'm a lazy bastard not willing to work or make sacrifices to get by. Hell I even advocate a split system in healthcare so that my taxes can finance a public system, and my premiums I pay through my employer can finance my own healthcare...


 
petros
#250
Half of Baghdad found it's way here. What is wrong with Canadians?
 
TenPenny
+1
#251
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

You also have to remember us older folks have to
look after them more than once in some cases because they totally mismanage
their world and they would end up being homeless.
Many don't leave home until well into their twenties.

If your children don't know how to manage their world, and don't leave home until well into their twenties, the people to blame are the ones who raised the kids to be unable to live on their own, and the ones who let them live at home.

I find it hilarious when people complain about their kids doing exactly what they've been raised to do, as if someone else was supposed to raise the kids somehow.

If you don't teach your kids to be independent, guess what? They won't be.
 
petros
+1
#252
These days the parents have the paper routes.
 
JLM
#253
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post


This thread is about seniors not being keen on giving up publicly funded services, from the OP. It's not about anyone stealing anyone's money...you older folks keep referencing when you were young...it's not the same at all. It's apples and oranges in almost every conceivable metric. Demographics, what more needs to be said about that? You could get a good job with a high school education, we cannot. Manufacturing jobs that could raise a family were plentiful, now they are not. The cost of post-secondary education was much lower. Just since 1981 for instance, in your country the cost of a university degree has risen six fold, while the CPI increased only 2.5 times. Housing prices are astronomical. A twenty-five year old college graduate isn't living at home because they want to...my generation has the same goals, a house, a family, except it looks like years before we'll be able to afford any of that. I think I'm probably the exception in some cases, because I'm a cheap bastard who doesn't own a cell phone, or any iApple gadgets. Hell, I won't even pay the farmer down the road to remove snow from my driveway because I'm such a cheap bastard. I'd rather break my back for 45 minutes every morning than pay money which could be used to invest or pay down more debt.
I'd like to hear from any of those who seem to think my generation wants to steal from you, just exactly what you...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post


Your interpretation which you have every right to.

[/FONT]

Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

If your children don't know how to manage their world, and don't leave home until well into their twenties, the people to blame are the ones who raised the kids to be unable to live on their own, and the ones who let them live at home.

I find it hilarious when people complain about their kids doing exactly what they've been raised to do, as if someone else was supposed to raise the kids somehow.

If you don't teach your kids to be independent, guess what? They won't be.

There are other influences on kids besides parents.
 
Goober
#254
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Based on the huge increase in housing prices and seniors getting richer, it looks like adults will have to start living with their parents. What's worse is that the housing bubble is taking effect again and houses are actually 25% overvalued because of artificially low interest rates. Come five years from now, current house owners will have to downgrade if they can't afford the interest rate hike.

With the interest hike and high prices, no amount of 'money managing' will afford this..


You would have to add some other criteria

Size of a house in the 50's was approx 900 sq ft
Presently a higher density of population raises the cost of land
Services to that subdivision
Material costs and building codes
Percentage of income to service a mortgage
Percentage of income spent to provide food, gas, car etc
Newer homes, many want all the fixings as they say.
We now are a 2 car or more generation - needed as the souse often works.
But last and most importantly is that credit is cheap - people buy on the pay later plan. That can be good on occasion but also leaves you in the constant position of owing forwards.
Turnover in cars. Average time a car is held - Every time you trade and but it costs. That adds up after 2 or 3 upgrades.
Driving a car till it is 8-10 or years old. After it is paid it is an asset. Instead of using that payment as saving many use it to consume.

And last but not least - personal debt ratios are at approx 150 % - Cheap borrowing costs is one reason - But as we all now interest rates change. Low now - Higher later.

Wants and needs - Are different now than they were 50 years ago.
Going without is also not common.
Education costs have risen - But if you spend all that money on an education and their is no demand for it, then who has the problem.

Skilled trades - Shortage -
People. many do not have an emergency fund set aside. 3 months is the recommended amount.

We can all go into specifics on what we encountered and how we led our lives, but they really do not apply.

I agree that the claw back of pension should be lower than the 65 or 75 k mentioned.

Public service pensions are the best in the country - That also has to be addressed.

Same with salary for Govt jobs -higher than the private sector. Some estimates are 20 % or more than the private sector - Why??? Unions that are to strong - Govt that are to weak. That is Prov and federal.

Yet we have many that will never have such a pension.

The Govt will gradually raise the age from 65 over a defined period.
 
JLM
#255
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

You would have to add some other criteria

Size of a house in the 50's was approx 900 sq ft
Presently a higher density of population raises the cost of land
Services to that subdivision
Material costs and building codes
Percentage of income to service a mortgage
Percentage of income spent to provide food, gas, car etc
Newer homes, many want all the fixings as they say.
We now are a 2 car or more generation - needed as the souse often works.
But last and most importantly is that credit is cheap - people buy on the pay later plan. That can be good on occasion but also leaves you in the constant position of owing forwards.
Turnover in cars. Average time a car is held - Every time you trade and but it costs. That adds up after 2 or 3 upgrades.
Driving a car till it is 8-10 or years old. After it is paid it is an asset. Instead of using that payment as saving many use it to consume.

And last but not least - personal debt ratios are at approx 150 % - Cheap borrowing costs is one reason - But as we all now interest rates change. Low now - Higher later.

Wants and needs - Are different now than they were 50 years ago.
Going without is also not common.
Education costs have risen - But if you spend all that money on an education and their is no demand for it, then who has the problem.

Skilled trades - Shortage -
People. many do not have an emergency fund set aside. 3 months is the recommended amount.

We can all go into specifics on what we encountered and how we led our lives, but they really do not apply.

I agree that the claw back of pension should be lower than the 65 or 75 k mentioned.

Public service pensions are the best in the country - That also has to be addressed.

Same with salary for Govt jobs -higher than the private sector. Some estimates are 20 % or more than the private sector - Why??? Unions that are to strong - Govt that are to weak. That is Prov and federal.

Yet we have many that will never have such a pension.

The Govt will gradually raise the age from 65 over a defined period.

You've said it well Goober and all mostly true, but I doubt if the young whipper snappers will buy it. Oh and one more thing, the time they spend yacking and texting on cell phones our generation spent WORKING. (do you think there's a message there)?
 
TenPenny
+1
#256
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Oh and one more thing, the time they spend yacking and texting on cell phones our generation spent WORKING. (do you think there's a message there)?

I'm amazed. Nobody in your generation ever played cards, or watched hockey, or did any gardening, or went to parties, or read books, or any other activity other than work? Wow. Just wow. Amazing.
 
JLM
#257
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I'm amazed. Nobody in your generation ever played cards, or watched hockey, or did any gardening, or went to parties, or read books, or any other activity other than work? Wow. Just wow. Amazing.

Absolutely - we were even known to get drunk on Saturday afternoon! BUT the difference was when we WERE working we didn't f*ck around.
 
Goober
+1
#258
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPennyView Post

I'm amazed. Nobody in your generation ever played cards, or watched hockey, or did any gardening, or went to parties, or read books, or any other activity other than work? Wow. Just wow. Amazing.

My Father worked 2 jobs all year. My Mother ran a rooming house, raised 3 kids. Both for her were full time jobs.
 
JLM
#259
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

My Father worked 2 jobs all year. My Mother ran a rooming house, raised 3 kids. Both for her were full time jobs.

My uncle worked for a Dairy in Victoria for about 36 years, his "weekend" started at 2 PM on Sunday. He was dead at age 61.
 
Goober
+1
#260
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post



This thread is about seniors not being keen on giving up publicly funded services, from the OP.
I don't want any sympathy from anyone, I'd just like to hear how it is they think that I want to steal their money, or how I'm a lazy bastard not willing to work or make sacrifices to get by. Hell I even advocate a split system in healthcare so that my taxes can finance a public system, and my premiums I pay through my employer can finance my own healthcare...


[/FONT]

No one is accusing you of being lazy, I would say the opposite - personal drive, thrift, needs and wants clearly defined. It is true about manufacturing jobs, but skilled tradesmen are in short supply.
Why - Society ( parents) in general think that all should have a university education to succeed - Some are just not cut out for it. Trades can make 100 k a year or a lot more. Mill Right - 100 K easy -
 
captain morgan
#261
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

No one is accusing you of being lazy, I would say the opposite - personal drive, thrift, needs and wants clearly defined. It is true about manufacturing jobs, but skilled tradesmen are in short supply.
Why - Society ( parents) in general think that all should have a university education to succeed - Some are just not cut out for it. Trades can make 100 k a year or a lot more. Mill Right - 100 K easy -


The trades rely on demand in the market for their specific expertise. Seeing how Canada has gutted it's manufacturing/industrial sectors, that pretty much leaves the blue & white collar demographic to generate that demand. In order for that mill right to make $100k, there has to be a group with the cash to pay.

It's a catch-22; you can't have that demand unless there is revenues floating around to support that demand.
 
JLM
#262
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

The trades rely on demand in the market for their specific expertise. Seeing how Canada has gutted it's manufacturing/industrial sectors, that pretty much leaves the blue & white collar demographic to generate that demand. In order for that mill right to make $100k, there has to be a group with the cash to pay.

It's a catch-22; you can't have that demand unless there is revenues floating around to support that demand.

Yep, sometimes times are tough, like back in the Hungry Thirties! While you are waiting for the $100 grand job, sometimes you have to spend time working at the $20 grand job. Years ago people started getting fussy about the wages so the immigrants moved in and took a lot of jobs, now we are saddled with them.
 
mentalfloss
#263
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

The trades rely on demand in the market for their specific expertise. Seeing how Canada has gutted it's manufacturing/industrial sectors, that pretty much leaves the blue & white collar demographic to generate that demand. In order for that mill right to make $100k, there has to be a group with the cash to pay.

It's a catch-22; you can't have that demand unless there is revenues floating around to support that demand.

Is it possible to replace some of the more regimented or technical skilled trades with automated tech?
 
captain morgan
+1
#264
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yep, sometimes times are tough, like back in the Hungry Thirties! While you are waiting for the $100 grand job, sometimes you have to spend time working at the $20 grand job. Years ago people started getting fussy about the wages so the immigrants moved in and took a lot of jobs, now we are saddled with them.


Herein lies the problem JLM... Not enough $100k jobs to support the skilled trades, let alone the $20k positions.

When the economy shrinks, the tax revenues shrink at an even faster rate. What this means is that there are fewer dollars for the social programs, infrastructure and operating costs of gvt and munis...

Think about it.

Something like healthcare is specifically vulnerable to this trend... We have a large population of boomers that are poised to retire in the next few years.. Once these folks retire, there will be fewer tax dollars generated from income tax, and as there are fewer Gen-Xer's than there were boomers, the tax base shrinks on that basis alone.

Now, considering that our (collective) use of the healthcare system creates a situation where the majority of dollars spent on the system occur at birth and death (recalling that we have a large # of seniors retiring, not paying the same income tax and requiring more dollars in heathcare resources) - what do you think is gonna happen?

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Is it possible to replace some of the more regimented or technical skilled trades with automated tech?

I would not be surprised, however, that may impair the tax base somewhat.

The scary thing about the next 20 years is based on the reality that we have a smaller population of people available to replace the boomers.
 
JLM
#265
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Herein lies the problem JLM... Not enough $100k jobs to support the skilled trades, let alone the $20k positions.

When the economy shrinks, the tax revenues shrink at an even faster rate. What this means is that there are fewer dollars for the social programs, infrastructure and operating costs of gvt and munis...

Think about it.

Something like healthcare is specifically vulnerable to this trend... We have a large population of boomers that are poised to retire in the next few years.. Once these folks retire, there will be fewer tax dollars generated from income tax, and as there are fewer Gen-Xer's than there were boomers, the tax base shrinks on that basis alone.

Now, considering that our (collective) use of the healthcare system creates a situation where the majority of dollars spent on the system occur at birth and death (recalling that we have a large # of seniors retiring, not paying the same income tax and requiring more dollars in heathcare resources) - what do you think is gonna happen?



.

You've got the situation pretty well pegged, but like you I don't have an inkling what is going to happen. What COULD happen is a period of DEFLATION, that will possibly solve immediate problems. The one problem is when $100 grand jobs change to being $20 grand jobs, obviously the professional sector like engineers, doctors, lawyers will have to pare their fees accordingly. Things WILL sort themselves out - the human animal isn't quite stupid enough to voluntarily starve to death.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

The scary thing about the next 20 years is based on the reality that we have a smaller population of people available to replace the boomers.

Do you think it would take many people to replace the boomers?
 
captain morgan
#266
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

You've got the situation pretty well pegged, but like you I don't have an inkling what is going to happen. What COULD happen is a period of DEFLATION, that will possibly solve immediate problems.

A prolonged recession can have that very same affect as well.

Like it or not, investment from the private sector is what drives any economy and if the investment climate is poor, everything grinds to a halt.. Gvt can step in to spur things, but the risk is that you go down the same path as Greece.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

The one problem is when $100 grand jobs change to being $20 grand jobs, obviously the professional sector like engineers, doctors, lawyers will have to pare their fees accordingly. Things WILL sort themselves out - the human animal isn't quite stupid enough to voluntarily starve to death.

You are quite correct in this statement.. That said, there is a transition zone here where a lot of money is lost, by virtue of not being realized to begin with or by folks that can't afford their (previously affordable) lifestyles... Selling off assets at a loss is the result (and certainly not the cause of any generational issue), but this also deflates the market and everyone gets impacted.

In the end, what I'm driving at is that as the economy shrinks, there is less money to spread around by gvt and considering that the boomers will soon in a position wherein they will need more services, having fewer dollars to fund it WILL be a huge problem.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post



Do you think it would take many people to replace the boomers?


The real question here is how many people will it take to replace the boomer's income tax contributions... Remember what you said about taking the $20k job 'til the $100k job is available?

Not a pretty picture for anyone, especially for those that are retired or are planning to retire soon, is it?
 
mentalfloss
+1
#267
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

The real question here is how many people will it take to replace the boomer's income tax contributions... Remember what you said about taking the $20k job 'til the $100k job is available?

In the end, who's out more money?

The boomer or the boomer's kid?
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#268
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I guess that is a major point at where we disagree. I don't see many failures in my generation or the twenty somethings, at least not in comparison to the seniors. I think my generation is a rousing success and judging from my daughter and her friends, I see a lot of positives coming behind me. That's really what separates us. You like to push others down in a feeble attempt to lift yourselves up whereas I am sticking to the facts of the matter. Your success or failures as a group have not affected me to any great extent. Sure, one could argue that the debt load you shoveled onto successive generations because of your extravagant spending "affects" me but the reality is that I'm doing fine.
You will notice that in over 160 posts, not one senior has bothered to point out exactly how they have benefited those coming behind them yet they love to call them ingrates. On the other hand, I can provide ample evidence of seniors benefiting from the generosity of others. One example would be how society subsidizes seniors through seniors discounts. Our local grocery store offers 10% discounts to seniors. Of course, the grocery store owner doesn't pay this out of his own pocket. He raises the prices for everybody else in order to compensate. So, the twenty and forty somethings you like to call ingrates are paying extra for food so you can eat cheaper. Rather than call them ingrates, perhaps you should thank them for their generosity. That is, after all, what somebody...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
So you are bellyaching about a seniors discount?

Contrary to your assertion, I am actually not an old fart. I pay the same as you for my goods and services. However, I fail to see what benifits (aside from the seniors discount or seniors menu) the many lucrative benifits they are enjoying at your expense. Please list.

The only benifits I can think of are Universal Healthcare and CPP/OAS. These are certainly one reason my taxes are high and if we completely dismantled Canad'a social security net, we could greatly reduce my tax load. However, I am not sure I would want to live in that Canada. Are you suggesting this approach?
 
captain morgan
#269
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

In the end, who's out more money?

The boomer or the boomer's kid?


That's a really interesting question.

Part of me believes that if the gvt gets into a cash-crunch scenario, they very well may try and raid the pension funds, RRSPs, RIFs, etc by virtue of changing the rules or by taxes. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the gvt is planning on making all kinds of money via 'death taxes' when the boomer's estate transfers to the kids.

In the final analysis, I suppose that the answer to your question will be generated when we see what gvt does.
 
JLM
#270
I don't think there is much doubt that things are going to get tough unless you are a millionaire. But a lot depends on your definition of tough. May have to give up Big Macs and start packing a sandwich and a thermos.
 

Similar Threads

1
Commentary on the younger generation?
by Goober | Jun 25th, 2011
no new posts