Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll


TenPenny
+2
#211
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Most of them are very good but the young
by and large even have their parents and grandparents going to job interviews with them.

They 'by and large' have parents going to job interviews with them? Wow - how many cases of this do you know of?
 
Cannuck
#212
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Maybe before Ron comes on shift we should just continue to discuss the issue in a neutral way without referring specifically to any idiots.

It's interesting that the only ones on this thread throwing around names are the seniors. It's pretty clear which generation lacks respect.
 
Goober
+1
#213
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

It's interesting that the only ones on this thread throwing around names are the seniors. It's pretty clear which generation lacks respect.

Did you suddenly turn into Miss Manners.
 
petros
+1
#214
You're all a bunch of s.
 
ironsides
#215
Why should we give up our money to the younger generation?


The Streak

Ray Stevens - The Streak - YouTube

 
DaSleeper
#216
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

It's interesting that the only ones on this thread throwing around names are the seniors. It's pretty clear which generation lacks respect.

 
petros
#217

Waylon Jennings amp Willie Nelson - Mamas Dont Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Cowboys - YouTube



I've always questioned the line...."Cowboys love....little warm puppies, children and girls of the night..."
 
JLM
#218
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You're all a bunch of s.

What you mean? I breaka your head!
 
petros
#219

Shaddap You Face - Joe Dolce - YouTube

 
grunt
+1
#220
[QUOTE=mentalfloss;1522551]Baby boomers living good life while their children hit blockade
#20

He examined household incomes in 1976 and compared them with incomes of young couples today, and adjusted for inflation. In Canada, young couples today have household incomes only slightly higher — five per cent — than young couples in 1976. Median household income in 2010 was $68,580 up $3,000 from $65,360 in 1976.

Meanwhile, housing costs rose an average 76 per cent and daycare costs these days are like a second mortgage — when you can find it.
---------------------------
There are 3 points I would like to make:
1- This character Kershaw is fictitious made only for the purpose of this article. If not and he is real then education in BC is in deep poop. Whoever wrote that article is not qualified to talk about that subject let alone teaches it. He compares inflation-adjusted income in 1976 and in 2010. Then marvels at the percent increase of house price for same years. I just wonder if he understands the meaning of “adjusted for inflation” or what does it mean to him?
2- Baby Boomers have done a lot of great things (we will examine the facts bellow) but miserably failed in one and that is they raised self centered, greedy and spoiled offspring (generation me, although I do not believe in labeling) Almost all bad things are attributed to Baby Boomers. I am surprised that the demise of dinosaurs and WWI are not blamed on them, or are they? Now to the facts; with the exception of the wealthy:
a. Since creation parents’ role (even in animals) is to raise their offspring to adulthood and let them start their own life.
b. Offspring stands on its own feet and become independent.
c. When parents get old offspring provide help if needed.
d. Young people of all generations since creation struggled at the start; that is life. The article even admits that the previous generation was poor. That means baby boomers struggled at the beginning also then supported their parents and kids at the same time. They understood that and accepted it because they did what they had to do.
e. This generations relationship continued until the ‘me’ generation that wanted the parents to support them indefinitely. That notion has migrated through and now kids do not even want to move out of their parents’ homes!!!
f. Baby boomers gave their offspring good opportunity to a higher education that they did not have themselves.
g. Who generated the wealth the article talks about? The article admits to the fact that parents of baby boomers were not rich meaning that baby boomers generated their own wealth, now it is your turn to do the same instead of free loading and complaining!!
h. Baby boomers made huge changes in science, political and social arenas some of which are social benefits that did not exist before. They paid for that and their parents who did not pay a cent for that benefited too.
i. As for the ‘Environment’ science of the day was not sophisticated as now. Again that is not the fault of baby boomers alone. You enjoyed driving your car when you were young and still do, don’t you? Having said that even now many people from newer generations still not convinced. It is not dry cut and may be because we are not being told the truth but that is another story.
j. Your grandchildren will be poor not because of baby boomers. Wake up and smell the coffee, look for the real reasons of middle class slow demise. Does your head hurt to think for yourself?
k. Previous generations retired at age 55 then 60 and now 65, OK? Get your facts straight.
3- I have reservations and lots of doubts about the real reason and motive behind that article. I am sure we all know and saw it in movies if a mob wants to do a big job without police interference they create a diversion. That is exactly what this ‘baby boomers’ crap is all about? Put it out there and turn the heat on and let these morons fight between themselves. The article says that they are ‘leaving larger government debts’, REALLY and who is responsible about that debt genius? Most baby boomers are still working and generating wealth. Leave the real culprit and bite the victim. The article is full of misleading information, deceitful tricks, half-truths and even out right lies and that is why I believe that article is nothing more than a badly written diversion.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#221
TenPenny all too many, I was listening to an open line show on a Astral Media
station and employers were making note of it, in addition they have in some
cases prepared a questionnaire for parents to help orient younger people into the
new world of employment. You also have to remember us older folks have to
look after them more than once in some cases because they totally mismanage
their world and they would end up being homeless.
Many don't leave home until well into their twenties. To answer your question
though according to some employers, it is becoming a concern.
There is no bloody way the seniors should give up their wealth to support the
younger people, no one did anything for us when we started out. I worked as a
grocery clerk and worked my way up.
In fact hearing that these people think I should give up my wealth and what I
worked for to make way for them, makes me so bloody mad that I feel like finding
some thirty something chicks and blowing all my money in Vegas. However if I did
that my wife would kill me hehehee.
Nothing is owed to anyone we all have to get off our duff and procure our own
wealth, and find our way in the world. All of our older grand kids, those who are now
19 to 25 are all working. Most have a trade, yes with papers, two are finished college
and the ones coming on are looking for work. My kids all have jobs, professions or a
trade. If they can do it anyone can do it.
 
Tonington
#222
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

So if we didn't pay into OAS who did?

Tax payers pay taxes. The government has general revenues. They also collect premiums like CPP and EI. So some programs are funded by general taxes, and these are at the whims of Parliament, and some like CPP you pay for directly. If you spend any time thinking about this, then some programs obviously are more sustainable than others because there is dedicated funding for the program. You put in and you take out. OAS is only take out. CPP is invested and you get in what you put in.

OAS is not paid into directly, so how can you get out what you put in? The size of the OAS liability is determined by demographics and the rate the government sets. So when you were paying taxes, it's not going to be the same thing at all as when you start drawing. You don't get to take out what you put in, because that's not how the program is set-up. It's welfare for senior citizens. Consult the table to see how much you qualify for:
Old Age Security Payment Rates (external - login to view)

Make note, there is no part of the calculation that considers what you paid in, because that's not how OAS works...I would think pension-aged Canadians would know this, though I guess at the same time it's not necessary to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive a car from point A to B.
 
JLM
#223
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Tax payers pay taxes. The government has general revenues. They also collect premiums like CPP and EI. So some programs are funded by general taxes, and these are at the whims of Parliament, and some like CPP you pay for directly. If you spend any time thinking about this, then some programs obviously are more sustainable than others because there is dedicated funding for the program. You put in and you take out. OAS is only take out. CPP is invested and you get in what you put in.
OAS is not paid into directly, so how can you get out what you put in? The size of the OAS liability is determined by demographics and the rate the government sets. So when you were paying taxes, it's not going to be the same thing at all as when you start drawing. You don't get to take out what you put in, because that's not how the program is set-up. It's welfare for senior citizens. Consult the table to see how much you qualify for:
Old Age Security Payment Rates
Make note, there is no part of the calculation that considers what you paid in, because that's not how OAS works...I would think pension-aged Canadians would know this, though I guess at the same time it's not necessary to know how an internal combustion engine works to drive a car from point A to B.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Well, what you say might apply to the supplement but definitely not to the basic OAP. The prime minister and Garfield Weston even get to draw that.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Ton's too by the sounds of it.

I mispoke on this one but for some reason when I tried to deep six it five minutes later I couldn't.
 
damngrumpy
#224
If there is a problem with old age security it is not the fault of the senior citizens it is the bad
economic policy and poor money management. In many cases governments knew they were
going to have problems, but instead of having the taxes reflect the expenses, they raided
everything they could get their hands on. CPP has been raided to offset expenses and so
have other agencies. At some point the bills come due. Before blaming seniors, they should
questioning all those politicians who kept taxes low, and put off paying the bills. This is still
happening today and no one seems to care about it. It is easier to blame an identifiable
group like seniors. who created the wealth we enjoy today. Sorry I have little sympathy for this
current generation, at least the ones who think they are entitled to something. I have no time
for those who think the world owes they a living either.
We have all too many who decided to become professional students and they never applied
themselves to the harsh realities of discipline, hard work, determination and respect for others.
Those are the fundamental building blocks of success and without them these folks are lost.
No one is going to get you up in the morning, no one is going to drive you to work, no one is
going to guarantee you success. or a job at the top. These are things that the fundamentals
teach you and when the current crop of self centered, selfish little buggers understand that
things will get better.
If one of my kids said to me, why should I have to work? My answer used to be So you can
survive one more day, and when you learn what that is about you will learn that life is more
than about survival alone. Without setback and disappointment, there is no real joy in
victory and accomplishment they go hand in hand, and too many in the upcoming generation
haven't learned that. The other thing that people should take into consideration. If we fell on
hard times, like a serious depression, how would the younger generation survive it? The
seniors could, because we have seen tough times, and we know how to do a number of things,
to earn enough for our keep. In a specialized world that is not the case for the younger
generation, not in the broad spectrum anyway. For those older people who taught their kids
and grand kids about doing as many jobs as possible when starting out good for you, you
taught them how to survive in a hostile world. For those who are feeling they are entitled
I feel sorry for you, for you will fare worst of all if and when the roof falls in.
 
Tonington
+2
#225
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Well, what you say might apply to the supplement but definitely not to the basic OAP. The prime minister and Garfield Weston even get to draw that.

Let's be clear, the Old Age Security cheque that seniors receive is not for money you paid into a fund...there is no fund. Look into CPP, you would have seen a line item deduction on your pay cheque. I do, it's always been there, even when I wasn't paying income tax as a student.

CPP is a fund that we all pay into, and what you get back depends partially on how much you put in. Your contributions are part of the calculation for receiving CPP benefits.

I'm not trying to tell you seniors that OAS is a bad thing, or that it's you folks being lazy or greedy. In fact there's entirely too much of that in this thread, which is a shame because I think this issue is very important. I wouldn't have spent so much time looking into this as a "youngster" if I didn't think it was important. I'm simply stating the simple facts that it is not an account; the government doesn't collect tax information about how much you paid into OAS, or how much I have paid into OAS. OAS is a liability paid for like thousands of other government liabilities. It's not at all like the Canada Pension Plan.

There is no way around it. People my age are going to be leaned on heavilly.

Quote:

I mispoke on this one but for some reason when I tried to deep six it five minutes later I couldn't.

Hands off the trigger! Friendly fire accidents are no good to anyone.
 
Spade
+1
#226
Maybe instead of giving money to a particular generation - old, middle, young - aren't we supposed to give our money to the poor?

Bill OReilly Jesus Vs The Poor - YouTube

Last edited by Spade; Dec 22nd, 2011 at 01:02 AM..
 
JLM
#227
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Let's be clear, the Old Age Security cheque that seniors receive is not for money you paid into a fund...there is no fund. Look into CPP, you would have seen a line item deduction on your pay cheque. I do, it's always been there, even when I wasn't paying income tax as a student.

CPP is a fund that we all pay into, and what you get back depends partially on how much you put in. Your contributions are part of the calculation for receiving CPP benefits.

I'm not trying to tell you seniors that OAS is a bad thing, or that it's you folks being lazy or greedy. In fact there's entirely too much of that in this thread, which is a shame because I think this issue is very important. I wouldn't have spent so much time looking into this as a "youngster" if I didn't think it was important. I'm simply stating the simple facts that it is not an account; the government doesn't collect tax information about how much you paid into OAS, or how much I have paid into OAS. OAS is a liability paid for like thousands of other government liabilities. It's not at all like the Canada Pension Plan.

There is no way around it. People my age are going to be leaned on heavilly.

.

Yes, I understand that it's not a dedicated fund where we all pay into into it according to some preconceived formula, but that doesn't make it any less funded by the citizens of Canada.
 
Tonington
#228
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yes, I understand that it's not a dedicated fund where we all pay into into it according to some preconceived formula, but that doesn't make it any less funded by the citizens of Canada.

I never said it wasn't funded by Canadians. It's no different than any other welfare offered by Ottawa in that respect, it's paid for by tax payers.
 
damngrumpy
+2
#229
Here is another way of dealing with it. If you want to take the money from the old and they
would end up being poor under present circumstances in many cases, those on fixed incomes.
Instead give the money to the youth as suggested by some. Then allow the parents grand parents
and so on to bill the younger generation for everything they got, things like education and
health care, and the luxuries of life while growing up. Didn't think there would be too many takers
on that one.
In BC, there is a different situation that other Provinces. Parents even if they haven't laid eyes on
their child for decades can still sue for maintenance in the courts if they are destitute. That is a
fact. Another from a series of legal matters on open line. I didn't know this before until October so
perhaps some estranged parents living on the street should begin finding out where young successful
Johnny lives and go for a payday. Yes the law exists, am I serious about actually going after the
kids no, the problem is they can.
 
JLM
#230
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Here is another way of dealing with it. If you want to take the money from the old and they
would end up being poor under present circumstances in many cases, those on fixed incomes.
Instead give the money to the youth as suggested by some. Then allow the parents grand parents
and so on to bill the younger generation for everything they got, things like education and
health care, and the luxuries of life while growing up. Didn't think there would be too many takers
on that one.
In BC, there is a different situation that other Provinces. Parents even if they haven't laid eyes on
their child for decades can still sue for maintenance in the courts if they are destitute. That is a
fact. Another from a series of legal matters on open line. I didn't know this before until October so
perhaps some estranged parents living on the street should begin finding out where young successful
Johnny lives and go for a payday. Yes the law exists, am I serious about actually going after the
kids no, the problem is they can.

One interesting side note- when we were kids growing up "thrift" was a part of our vocabulary. How often is that word heard today among the current generation?
 
Cannuck
#231
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Nothing is owed to anyone we all have to get off our duff and procure our own wealth

Agreed. I don't think the seniors "owe" the younger generations anything. I just think they should show some humility and maybe apologize to them for saddling them with such debt the minute they are born. Especially since the debt was created so the seniors could raise their own standard of living. Taxing my kids and grandkids to pay for my lifestyle is having them support me. I'm not sure why it is so difficult for seniors to admit that that is what they have done.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Maybe instead of giving money to a particular generation - old, middle, young - aren't we supposed to give our money to the poor?

What a radical concept!
 
JLM
#232
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - More evidence that generational tensions are high; a poll (external - login to view) finds seniors aren't keen to relinquish publicly-funded services in order to help the struggling younger generations.

Seventy per cent of seniors asked felt they should be a top priority when it comes to doling out government cash.

UBC's Paul Kershaw (external - login to view) is surprised most of them say they know families are struggling. "Even so, 80 per cent of Canadians 55-plus say they have earned their fair share of the wealth produced by Canada's economy and therefore deserve to enjoy the benefits."

He believes the older generation might want to think about their kids a little more because they're the ones who will deal with the consequences of actions we take today.

"As the baby boomers in particular approach retirement, they're leaving larger government debts and an environmental record that isn't that great. It's going to be their kids and grandchildren who need to pay for it," he says.

Kershaw notes the result is especially surprising, considering things like housing values and lower poverty rates have made it much easier to retire.

He adds Statistics Canada (external - login to view) data show poverty among seniors has declined from 29 per cent in 1976 to less than five per cent in 2009. The poverty rate for families with kids under the age of six is 15 per cent.

The poll also shows 65 per cent of 18-44 year olds believe "a greater share of wealth produced in Canada should be invested in the next generation of families and children."

Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll - News1130 (external - login to view)

Seniors gave up money to the younger generation for an entire generation. Who do you think paid for the raising and educating of our kids? When our generation reached age 18 or so we got out of our parents' hair and supported ourselves, unlike many of the current generation who are still dependent on their parents into their 20s and 30s. We've done our bit, give us a break!
 
petros
+1
#233
I don't give a **** who you are. If you can't manage your damn money maybe it's your destiny to not have any?
 
mentalfloss
#234
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Maybe instead of giving money to a particular generation - old, middle, young - aren't we supposed to give our money to the poor?

Bill OReilly Jesus Vs The Poor - YouTube


 
JLM
+1
#235
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I don't give a **** who you are. If you can't manage your damn money maybe it's your destiny to not have any?

The whiners and snivellers seem to have a problem with that simple concept! Do you think low I.Q. is a big part of the problem?
 
petros
+1
#236
In every pub in Canada you find the world's greatest unemployed electrician, accountant, shoemaker, lawyer ...
 
JLM
+1
#237
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

In every pub in Canada you find the world's greatest unemployed electrician, accountant, shoemaker, lawyer ...

Ya got that right!
 
ironsides
#238
You think the young whipper snappers are to afraid to say that they want to steal our money?
 
mentalfloss
+2
#239
Based on the huge increase in housing prices and seniors getting richer, it looks like adults will have to start living with their parents. What's worse is that the housing bubble is taking effect again and houses are actually 25% overvalued because of artificially low interest rates. Come five years from now, current house owners will have to downgrade if they can't afford the interest rate hike.

With the interest hike and high prices, no amount of 'money managing' will afford this..


 
JLM
#240
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

You think the young whipper snappers are to afraid to say that they want to steal our money?



I wouldn't go QUITE that far...................it's more a feeling of entitlement. Fifty years ago it was an inbred philosophy that each man looked after himself, sure there were times people needed help, but we didn't ask for it until there was no other way and when we got it we reciprocated.

 

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