Seniors don't want to give up money for younger gen: poll


gerryh
+4
#451
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I'm for more immigration and balanced budgets. That would solve the problem more effectively than just having more kids. The world doesn't really need more people. The simplistic views of your generation are a big part of the reason the current predicament exists.


That would solve the problem eh..... strange.... this whole thread all you have done is whine and bitch about how ALL the problems have been caused by the BB's with no suggestion at all that there was a solution to the problem. Guess what brainiac, your solution is at least 20 years too late. You and your generation should have been looking at major increases in immigration a long time ago since there haven't been enough children born to replace the boomer generation.

I have a novel idea, how about working together to solve the problem rather than whining and bitching and laying blame all over the place besides your own doorstep.
 
BruSan
#452
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

That would solve the problem eh..... strange.... this whole thread all you have done is whine and bitch about how ALL the problems have been caused by the BB's with no suggestion at all that there was a solution to the problem. Guess what brainiac, your solution is at least 20 years too late. You and your generation should have been looking at major increases in immigration a long time ago since there haven't been enough children born to replace the boomer generation.

I have a novel idea, how about working together to solve the problem rather than whining and bitching and laying blame all over the place besides your own doorstep.

OOOOH, that's gonna leave a mark! Right on!
 
Goober
#453
Quote: Originally Posted by BruSanView Post

OOOOH, that's gonna leave a mark! Right on!

On the genitals.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

That would solve the problem eh..... strange.... this whole thread all you have done is whine and bitch about how ALL the problems have been caused by the BB's with no suggestion at all that there was a solution to the problem. Guess what brainiac, your solution is at least 20 years too late. You and your generation should have been looking at major increases in immigration a long time ago since there haven't been enough children born to replace the boomer generation.

I have a novel idea, how about working together to solve the problem rather than whining and bitching and laying blame all over the place besides your own doorstep.

We have many well educated immigrants who can with help be offered training in all the trades we are sort. Medical side - Doctors to Lab types. Engineers and so on. They are here to get ahead and a good start for their families. They are motivated.
 
gerryh
#454
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

On the genitals.



We have many well educated immigrants who can with help be offered training in all the trades we are sort. Medical side - Doctors to Lab types. Engineers and so on. They are here to get ahead and a good start for their families. They are motivated.


Not enough Goob. Within the next 15 years, we will be short in EVERY trade. Plumbing, HVAC, Carpentry, Mechanics, Electrical.... you name it, we are coming up short in the trades. You people complain about how much it costs and how hard it is to get a plumber out to your house now....just wait.

The short sightedness of the BB's AND the generation following is THE reason we are in the predicament we are in. Cannucks generation is as much at fault as the BB's. None of our generations have bothered looking at the long term. It's been short term, or it's been "all about me", rather than "us".
 
Cannuck
#455
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

...all you have done is whine and bitch about how ALL the problems have been caused by the BB's with no suggestion at all that there was a solution to the problem.

Maybe you should try reading the entire thread before you make such idiotic statements.
 
gerryh
+1
#456
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Maybe you should try reading the entire thread before you make such idiotic statements.


maybe you should try to be consistent.
 
Goober
#457
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Not enough Goob. Within the next 15 years, we will be short in EVERY trade. Plumbing, HVAC, Carpentry, Mechanics, Electrical.... you name it, we are coming up short in the trades. You people complain about how much it costs and how hard it is to get a plumber out to your house now....just wait.

The short sightedness of the BB's AND the generation following is THE reason we are in the predicament we are in. Cannucks generation is as much at fault as the BB's. None of our generations have bothered looking at the long term. It's been short term, or it's been "all about me", rather than "us".

The longer we wait the worse it will become. Yes we are behind. The Feds were aware of this in the early
90's. Time to get moving I would say. And that is a Fed /Prov / Business role.
 
gerryh
+2
#458
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The longer we wait the worse it will become. Yes we are behind. The Feds were aware of this in the early
90's. Time to get moving I would say. And that is a Fed /Prov / Business role.


That would be about the same time I started stating that we needed to either start having a hell of alot more kids or open up the doors, wide open, to immigration. We needed to take the astigmatism away from the trades and start funneling kids into them. Of course, we continued to tell kids they had to go to university and only the dummy's go into the trades.
 
JLM
+2
#459
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

That would be about the same time I started stating that we needed to either start having a hell of alot more kids or open up the doors, wide open, to immigration. We needed to take the astigmatism away from the trades and start funneling kids into them. Of course, we continued to tell kids they had to go to university and only the dummy's go into the trades

You got that right (I'm not sure about "astigmatism") but in my line of work we found if you want some useful information go to the technician, NOT the engineer. Some "book knowledge" is necessary but useless without the "hands on" knowledge gotten through experience.
 
gerryh
#460
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

You got that right (I'm not sure about "astigmatism") but in my line of work we found if you want some useful information go to the technician, NOT the engineer. Some "book knowledge" is necessary but useless without the "hands on" knowledge gotten through experience.


friggin auto correct.... should be stigmatism.
 
Goober
#461
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

friggin auto correct.... should be stigmatism.

The Millright. Would that be correct???
 
Cannuck
#462
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

maybe you should try to be consistent.

If you had bothered to read the entire thread (including post #375), you would have seen that I haven't blamed all the problems on seniors and do not pass the buck. Perhaps, had you read the entire thread, you would have not made the idiotic statement you made. If you had bothered to read the entire thread, you might have grasped the concept that the older generations form a much greater voting block than the younger generations. Had you read the entire thread, you probably would have realized that pointing out reality is not the same as "whining". I leave the whining to the seniors on this thread.

I do appreciate the importance you place on consistency. You have, above all else, made consistently idiotic statements.
 
Goober
+3
#463
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

If you had bothered to read the entire thread (including post #375), you would have seen that I haven't blamed all the problems on seniors and do not pass the buck. Perhaps, had you read the entire thread, you would have not made the idiotic statement you made. If you had bothered to read the entire thread, you might have grasped the concept that the older generations form a much greater voting block than the younger generations. Had you read the entire thread, you probably would have realized that pointing out reality is not the same as "whining". I leave the whining to the seniors on this thread.

I do appreciate the importance you place on consistency. You have, above all else, made consistently idiotic statements.

I have followed the thread and you appeared to be in a hatefest with seniors and JLM is the main target. So Gerry is not off the mark. You refer to 1 post. Really. 1 Post out of how many? Easy to miss one post.
 
Cannuck
#464
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I have followed the thread and you appeared to be in a hatefest with seniors and JLM is the main target.

That is only because of your bias. As with most of the seniors on this thread, you have taken simple factual statements made by me and rather than refute them (which you obviously can't) have instead tried to attach an agenda to me. Perhaps that is why I've been making fun of the seniors on this thread. If seniors like JLM actually tried to refute what I was saying instead of just attacking me personally, you might have an ounce of credibility. So, as far as the 700 billion dollars debt, if it isn't the seniors that are responsible for it, then who is? Maybe if the seniors would make the slightest attempt at answering some of these questions, they wouldn't look so foolish.
 
Goober
#465
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

That is only because of your bias. As with most of the seniors on this thread, you have taken simple factual statements made by me and rather than refute them (which you obviously can't) have instead tried to attach an agenda to me. Perhaps that is why I've been making fun of the seniors on this thread. If seniors like JLM actually tried to refute what I was saying instead of just attacking me personally, you might have an ounce of credibility. So, as far as the 700 billion dollars debt, if it isn't the seniors that are responsible for it, then who is? Maybe if the seniors would make the slightest attempt at answering some of these questions, they wouldn't look so foolish.

Both of you are friends. I have no agenda. I go by what I read.
 
Cannuck
#466
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Both of you are friends. I have no agenda. I go by what I read.

I don't buy it. While I (albeit with a sense of humour) have defended my position that seniors are hypocritical for labeling the younger generations as selfish, none of the seniors here have shown any interest in refuting anything I've said. Instead, they have attacked me personally. If anybody has shown hatred, it has been the seniors. If you really were not blinded by agenda, you would be able to see how many times I have been called an idiot or an ******* by JLM and the rest and the side with the hatred would be clear to see. It's a good thing for me that I laugh it off but it is rather offensive to some.
 
JLM
+1
#467
As far as the $700 billion goes, there are some points to make that one or more of the less astute on here seem to have missed. Much of the $700 billion was directly at the hands of Trudeau and Mulroney (most of us were busy trying to make a living and were perhaps less than vigilant in following every move they made and in not checking "the books" on a month basis. At least some of that money was spent on infrastructure done at times when the costs were much less and hence saving the whining generation a wad of money so they had access to the highways, hospitals, sewer and water while doing their whining and snivelling.
 
Angstrom
#468
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Not enough Goob. Within the next 15 years, we will be short in EVERY trade. Plumbing, HVAC, Carpentry, Mechanics, Electrical.... you name it, we are coming up short in the trades. You people complain about how much it costs and how hard it is to get a plumber out to your house now....just wait.

The short sightedness of the BB's AND the generation following is THE reason we are in the predicament we are in. Cannucks generation is as much at fault as the BB's. None of our generations have bothered looking at the long term. It's been short term, or it's been "all about me", rather than "us".


I'm not sure about that Gerryh.

Since the boomers did not have that many kids and same with gen X like you said,
I expect construction to fall and slow to a crawl by 2025.

even with the massive Immigration we have, I don't think that will replace the whole dieing boomer generation.
Id expect house prices to fall at that point no?

And that means a bunch of construction workers on EI.

From 2015 to 2025 its going to be a gold rush for old age home construction then after that it will be slow.
Last edited by Angstrom; Dec 26th, 2011 at 11:04 PM..
 
JLM
#469
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Not enough Goob. Within the next 15 years, we will be short in EVERY trade. Plumbing, HVAC, Carpentry, Mechanics, Electrical.... you name it, we are coming up short in the trades. You people complain about how much it costs and how hard it is to get a plumber out to your house now....just wait.

The short sightedness of the BB's AND the generation following is THE reason we are in the predicament we are in. Cannucks generation is as much at fault as the BB's. None of our generations have bothered looking at the long term. It's been short term, or it's been "all about me", rather than "us".

I think that is a trait of EVERY generation of politicians.....................survive to win another election!
 
gerryh
#470
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I think that is a trait of EVERY generation of politicians.....................survive to win another election!


I/m not talking about politicians.
 
JLM
#471
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I/m not talking about politicians.

I know but they claim to set the tone and provide the "environment" for business to succeed.
 
Cannuck
#472
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

At least some of that money was spent on infrastructure done at times when the costs were much less and hence saving the whining generation a wad of money so they had access to the highways, hospitals, sewer and water while doing their whining and snivelling.

Infrastructure is ongoing. There was infrastructure being built before deficits became the norm and there was infrastructure being build after Martin/Chretien balanced the books. Infrastructure is a red herring. As far as your generation being too busy...I didn't realize seniors were also very lazy and couldn't go out and vote. I guess, not only are seniors more selfish than the younger generations, they are also much lazier. I didn't really think that but I appreciate you pointing it out.
 
BruSan
#473
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The longer we wait the worse it will become. Yes we are behind. The Feds were aware of this in the early
90's. Time to get moving I would say. And that is a Fed /Prov / Business role.

90's ??? I was a member of a panel formed in Ontario and chaired by a previous premiere and Chancellor of the University of Guelph who'se purpose it was to determine what was the reasons for the shortage of skilled trades and what could be done to reverse this trend as immigration was no longer the resource pool to access at a moments notice to draw a few from! The chairperson's name at the time was George Drew!

Immigrants; the traditional pool from the British Isles and European countries had virtually dried up with a number of HR people on the panel having sent rep's over to entice certificated applicants for the machine trades through reimbursement of moving costs, guaranteed employment for a specified time, and even, in some cases, covering those real estate costs associated with searching and fianalizing a house purchase.

Think of the enormity of those concessions regarding the waiving of the traditional "probationary period" that has been the norm for generations and still exists today in nearly every work place in North America. These companies had actually sat with Unions in some cases getting an agreement hammered out that would see the waiving of those probationary periods for immigrants while optioning them to a degree for domestic hires; to wit;
1/ regular probationary period would be served for "home growns". 2/ current hires undergoing a probationary period would be considered finished, 3/entire probationary clause in collective agreement would be suspended for a period of time to encompass the "foreign hire period". These were all issues that would have affected the seniority of any still probationed versus just hired foreign worker leap frogging over him. Couldn't happen but some companies actually wondered "why the concern"?

You can well imagine the types of discussions these generated within the workplace with Union rep's screaming foul over the requirement for "home growns" to serve any probationary period at all in the future when that little item would be waived for folks from overseas that they had no idea if the credentials held were even genuine or not. Union rep's were bitterly slinging stuff like "since when would you regard the foreign workers to be acceptable in all facets of work habits while still demanding 'probation to determine' for Canadian journeymen?" They certainly had a point.

For my part; I stated ' on the record for the minute's that if "Canadian companies had placed the required value on active and prolific apprenticeship programs; they would have realized a return in both the numbers required to sustain business needs and also a respect for the graduate apprentice through observance and improvements to existing plans, where the general impression of foreign training being superior to ours would have dissappeared long ago"! and finished with "the very fact we're forced to convene a panel to discuss this topic should result in your everlasting shame". I know; over the top with hyperbole but I was much younger then.

Those meetings took place in the late 70's

It all came to nought as they couldn't entice foreign guys in any numbers to solve the shortage anyway!
Last edited by BruSan; Dec 27th, 2011 at 11:02 AM..
 
JLM
#474
I'm wondering if unlike the immigrants of the early 20th century who could provide, the current crop aren't ones who are more in need!
 
petros
+1
#475
If I were running a nation that faced a labour crisis and a retirement funding crisis I'd do three things.

First: I'd invest the pensions of the aging labour force into resources development and infrastructure.

Second. I'd utilize the remaining skilled labour force to build the infrastructure to access, extract and get those resources to market so the products are being sold, the remaing skilled labour is still padding their nest by working ensuring the pension investments pay off and my currency remains strong to keep their asses alive for 20-30 years after retirement.

Thirdly: I'd fill in the gaps by tapping into a major skilled labour force in the nation I border which just happens to have to manpower and arms to protect my resources and it's infrastructure from destruction by foreign invaders by removing many of the trade, security, people movement barriers, and currency issues that neighbouring nations have because of borders.

Take a look around you. Does it appear that these points are indeed unfolding before your eyes?
 
Goober
#476
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

That is only because of your bias. As with most of the seniors on this thread, you have taken simple factual statements made by me and rather than refute them (which you obviously can't) have instead tried to attach an agenda to me. Perhaps that is why I've been making fun of the seniors on this thread. If seniors like JLM actually tried to refute what I was saying instead of just attacking me personally, you might have an ounce of credibility. So, as far as the 700 billion dollars debt, if it isn't the seniors that are responsible for it, then who is? Maybe if the seniors would make the slightest attempt at answering some of these questions, they wouldn't look so foolish.

You are making me older before my time. I am not a Senior. Only 54.
 
JLM
+1
#477
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

That is only because of your bias. As with most of the seniors on this thread, you have taken simple factual statements made by me and rather than refute them (which you obviously can't) have instead tried to attach an agenda to me. Perhaps that is why I've been making fun of the seniors on this thread. If seniors like JLM actually tried to refute what I was saying instead of just attacking me personally, you might have an ounce of credibility. So, as far as the 700 billion dollars debt, if it isn't the seniors that are responsible for it, then who is? Maybe if the seniors would make the slightest attempt at answering some of these questions, they wouldn't look so foolish.

You REALLY are an idiot aren't you?
 
petros
#478
What happens if $700 billion dollars debt is paid off and that amount of currency is taken out of circulation?
 
DaSleeper
+1
#479
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

That is only because of your bias. As with most of the seniors on this thread, you have taken simple factual statements made by me and rather than refute them (which you obviously can't) have instead tried to attach an agenda to me. Perhaps that is why I've been making fun of the seniors on this thread. If seniors like JLM actually tried to refute what I was saying instead of just attacking me personally, you might have an ounce of credibility. So, as far as the 700 billion dollars debt, if it isn't the seniors that are responsible for it, then who is? Maybe if the seniors would make the slightest attempt at answering some of these questions, they wouldn't look so foolish.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

You REALLY are an idiot aren't you?


M. Bison "Yes Yes!" Widescreen HD reupload - YouTube (external - login to view)
 
taxslave
#480
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

what it boils down to as to why there is no money, and why there will be a major problem with paying for what we have and need is the fact that the baby boomers didn't have enough children, and the baby boomers kids didn't have enough children.

We have a major problem in the trades coming up as there are not enough apprentices coming in to replace the tradesmen retiring. There are not enough people paying taxes to pay for the extra burden that the baby boomers are going to be putting on the system when they basically stop paying taxes.


The whole tax and pension system is another unsustainable pyramid scheme.
The reason there is and will be a lack of trades people in the foreseeable future is that our education systems are run by academics with little knowledge of anything that isn't already in a book. They consider working with ones hands as somehow being low class. Coupled with the way tradespeople are treated by their employers it is little wonder that few choose this path and that fewer still remain in it.
Even though I am a journeyman HD mechanic I mostly operate machines and manage projects because operators make as much money, aren't expected to work nights and weekends or get dirty and have no investment in their jobs other than a big lunch box . Also when an operator breaks something it is no big deal but if a mechanic does not have a piece of scrap iron running the next day or screws up trying to fix it the world is ending.
 

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