Christopher Hitchens: Dies


Spade
#31
I am sorry, my friend, you and everyone else will end up as Christopher Hitchens.
 
CDNBear
+2
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

I am sorry, my friend, you and everyone else will end up as Christopher Hitchens.

Hated by Christian fundamentalists and revered by Atheists?
 
Goober
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

Sorry my friend, but it doesn't work that way. You could never do enough "good" to enter heaven. There's no such thing as a "good person", and if you think you are a good person, then you need to realize how foolish it is to judge yourself by your own standard. God's standard to enter heaven is perfection. That's why you need Jesus Christ to enter heaven, because he lived the perfect life no man could live.

Man is not perfect and on that we shall disagree.
 
Spade
+1
#34
No, forgotten by men and the gods.
 
In Between Man
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Man is not perfect and on that we shall disagree.

Disagree? Don't you mean agree? Man is not perfect, only Jesus Christ (who is God) is perfect.
 
Goober
+1
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

Disagree? Don't you mean agree? Man is not perfect, only Jesus Christ (who is God) is perfect.

I also believe a good man can enter heaven. i do not believe in sins passed thru the chain. From generations from Adam and Eve.
 
In Between Man
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I also believe a good man can enter heaven. i do not believe in sins passed thru the chain. From generations from Adam and Eve.

As I've pointed out, God said there's no such thing as a good man. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) If God the Father didn't send Jesus then every human born would eventually go to hell.
 
Dexter Sinister
+1
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

You could never do enough "good" to enter heaven. There's no such thing as a "good person"...

That attitude is exactly what Hitchens talks about in the video clip I linked to, the terrible thing to be telling to children, the offer of something not worth having, the poisoned chalice you should put aside. And it's why you and I will never agree on this.
 
In Between Man
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

That attitude is exactly what Hitchens talks about in the video clip I linked to, the terrible thing to be telling to children, the offer of something not worth having, the poisoned chalice you should put aside. And it's why you and I will never agree on this.

If God were to judge you or anyone else on just the ten commandments, how many would you be guilty of? We're guilty. And as I've already pointed out, if you think you're a good person, don't you realize how foolish it is to judge yourself BY YOUR OWN STANDARD? When part of human nature is to try to justify your own actions, don't you think judging yourself by your own standard is rather convenient?

If Adolf Hitler was here, do you know what he would tell us? He would say "I'm a good man, I purged Germany of Jews, blacks, and communists".

God is perfectly holy, that's why the only way to heaven is to be made perfectly righteous and that can only be done through Jesus. When God looks at those who are saved, he doesn't see their past sins, he only sees Christ's blood.
 
Cliffy
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

If God were to judge you or anyone else on just the ten commandments, how many would you be guilty of? We're guilty. And as I've already pointed out, if you think you're a good person, don't you realize how foolish it is to judge yourself BY YOUR OWN STANDARD? When part of human nature is to try to justify your own actions, don't you think judging yourself by your own standard is rather convenient?

If Adolf Hitler was here, do you know what he would tell us? He would say "I'm a good man, I purged Germany of Jews, blacks, and communists".

God is perfectly holy, that's why the only way to heaven is to be made perfectly righteous and that can only be done through Jesus. When God looks at those who are saved, he doesn't see their past sins, he only sees Christ's blood.

And when I hear such utter clap trap, I think the speaker has a few holes in their head - Hole-ier than thou. I can't imagine there being a place for the self righteous in any heaven, real or imaginary. This god of yours is a real nut job. But I'm sure the real god, if there is one, will forgive even you your trespasses.
 
Spade
+3
#41
Should you be posting on the sabbath?
 
Cliffy
+1
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Should you be posting on the sabbath?

But isn't that the day set asside for preaching to the great unwashed?
 
damngrumpy
+2
#43
Oh, when you think for yourself in a religious family, you are a disappointment for sure.
I have always thought for myself and as for Hitchens, what terrible thing did he say? He
merely pointed out that people should live their lives and explore the world around them
with an open mind.
He also cautioned about getting caught up in religious doctrine and the forgiveness and
guilt complexes that accompany them. For one I don't think he said anything that has
not been said before. Is the world not made up of billions of opinions? Oh forgive me
some believe we should all think alike, less God might not love us or something.
 
CDNBear
+2
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

But isn't that the day set asside for preaching to the great unwashed?

Hey, I washed this morning.
 
SLM
+3
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Hey, I washed this morning.

Me too. Had a nice, long hot shower.

Didn't want to risk being preached to.
 
Ron in Regina
+3
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

If God were to judge you or anyone else on just the ten commandments, how many would you be guilty of?

I'm still good on three of them, I guess, but I'm not done either.
Yikes....oh well.
 
Spade
+2
#47
Obviously Goober and Dexter didn't.
PS
I ate garlic too, just to be safe.
 
Dexter Sinister
+2
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

... don't you realize how foolish it is to judge yourself BY YOUR OWN STANDARD? .

No I don't realize that, in fact I deny it. Mine is the only standard I'll take seriously. I certainly won't accept being judged by yours, despite your implicit claim that it's god's standard. You're making exactly the argument that Hitchens so sharply criticized, and I vote with him on this one. After decades of thought and study on the matter I am convinced that what you think of as god is a delusion and all the things you derive from that belief have no substance, no value, and no roots in reality. They are false and indefensible conclusions derived from a defective premise. I'll do my own thinking thanks, I will not accept submission to an absolute authority, the offer of certainty, or the gift of salvation that supposedly comes with it. That's the gift not worth having, I see nothing there but a closing of the mind, the end of learning, and an abdication of responsibility.

Ever heard of Godwin's Law? (external - login to view) It's a sign that one side of the argument has gone bankrupt.
 
gerryh
+3
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by in between manView Post

sorry my friend, but it doesn't work that way. You could never do enough "good" to enter heaven. There's no such thing as a "good person", and if you think you are a good person, then you need to realize how foolish it is to judge yourself by your own standard. God's standard to enter heaven is perfection. That's why you need jesus christ to enter heaven, because he lived the perfect life no man could live.


all, every single person. Every single child of God will be welcomed into his kingdom.
 
gopher
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

I thought he was disliked because he supported Bush in the Iraq fiasco.

He was one to change his mind about many subjects. One was early in his career when he condemned American interventionism overseas. Then later on in life he defended what he used to condemn. Same with Israel - he was a guy whose words bordered on antisemitism. Then late in life he defended Israel.

The man was exceptionally knowledgeable in many topics. Had an excellent understanding of politics. Funny as hell. But he flip flopped several times and this led to him having many detractors.
 
JLM
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

He was one to change his mind about many subjects. One was early in his career when he condemned American interventionism overseas. Then later on in life he defended what he used to condemn. Same with Israel - he was a guy whose words bordered on antisemitism. Then late in life he defended Israel.

The man was exceptionally knowledgeable in many topics. Had an excellent understanding of politics. Funny as hell. But he flip flopped several times and this led to him having many detractors.

Is it "flip flopping" or is it adjusting your opinion to correspond with changing situations or upon getting a clearer view of a situation? You don't improve if you don't change.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

all, every single person. Every single child of God will be welcomed into his kingdom.

Would you bet on Saddam's chances?
 
gerryh
+2
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post


Would you bet on Saddam's chances?


What part of "all" or "everyone" did you have a problem understanding?
 
JLM
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

What part of "all" or "everyone" did you have a problem understanding?

"Agreeing" might be more the point. Sylvia Browne would beg to differ. According to her those guys just fly along in limbo for eons.
 
WLDB
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

If God were to judge you or anyone else on just the ten commandments, how many would you be guilty of?

I've broken all but two of them. The majority of the ten commandments are totally useless.
 
Goober
+1
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by In Between ManView Post

As I've pointed out, God said there's no such thing as a good man. "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) If God the Father didn't send Jesus then every human born would eventually go to hell.

But he did so there ends that. And I do not believe that the sins of Adam / Eve are passed on.
Some detest religion just because of some that condemn others because of their beliefs - I am not implying you did this.

Some use Religion as a box to live inside - Myself i use it as a guide. Now who is right?

God placed us on this Earth to live, love, enjoy, help others, care for the poor and so on.

There are so many differing interpretations that an ordinary person can get confused by another.

And whether Hitchens did indeed enter Heaven, we as Christians have no input on that now do we?

I am Christian - Go by the big 10 - and then it is over to God the Creator if you will.

Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

He was one to change his mind about many subjects. One was early in his career when he condemned American interventionism overseas. Then later on in life he defended what he used to condemn. Same with Israel - he was a guy whose words bordered on antisemitism. Then late in life he defended Israel.

The man was exceptionally knowledgeable in many topics. Had an excellent understanding of politics. Funny as hell. But he flip flopped several times and this led to him having many detractors.

He was for the Iraq war from the start - He was a left wing socialist that saw it was not viable. When asked about his past beliefs - He compared it to an amputee longing for his limb. Quite forthright and honest answer.

When he ditched socialism many set him aside much like some do with a person who has lost their path or the woeful sinner. He was great as long as they agreed with him - Shallow people I would say, quite shallow.

I found him to be an interesting man, said what he believed and from what i understand was funny as hell and a good person, loved his family.
 
gopher
+1
#56
Quote:

Quoting JLM,

Is it "flip flopping"

It is flip flopping. If you read his earlier stuff about, say, USA interventionism over the years, and then see what a big turn around he made you, too, would be convinced it was classic flip flop. Do a Google search on Hitchens flip flops and you will find several links on the subject.
 
WLDB
+2
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

It is flip flopping. If you read his earlier stuff about, say, USA interventionism over the years, and then see what a big turn around he made you, too, would be convinced it was classic flip flop. Do a Google search on Hitchens flip flops and you will find several links on the subject.


No one holds the same views on every subject their entire life. Changes of opinion are bound to happen.

"flip flopping" has negative conotations for some reason.
 
Cliffy
#58
Flip flopping would entail going from one position to another and then back to the original. If it is only one way, it would be simply changing the mind.
 
Goober
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

No one holds the same views on every subject their entire life. Changes of opinion are bound to happen.

"flip flopping" has negative conotations for some reason.

Far left Wingers get so upset when someone leaves the farm. Thye never forget or forgive having a change in beliefs.
 
JLM
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Flip flopping would entail going from one position to another and then back to the original. If it is only one way, it would be simply changing the mind.

So which is the flipping and which is the flopping?
 

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