You wrote "Palestinians are at war with Israel" I noticed that you didn't write that "Israel is at war with the Palestinians". Its a safe bet that you probably see this conflict as Israelis (victims) constantly attacked by Palestinians (terrorists). You should be aware that far more Palestinians are killed by Israeli terrorism than the other way around.
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However since our main stream media has taken sides, they report Israeli deaths as victims of terrorism, while Israelis only kill Palestinian terrorists. I question that definition, especially when applied to Palestinian children.
I see this conflict as a result of Palestine being taken over by hostile foreigners who believe that God gave them the right to Palestinian homes, bank accounts, farmland, water resources... What used to be a peaceful predominently Muslim area became a violent Jewish state. Please feel free to correct me. You can list all the violence which occurred in this rgion while it was an Ottoman province. I'll make a longer list of all the violence which occurred here since the Zionists took over this region.
Could you please reference when the UN consulted the people living in Palestine before they imposed a Jewish only state on them? How do you think Muslims felt about the UN decision to make them second class citizens in a Jewish state? If you look athow the UN partitioned the land, a minority of the people (mostly foreigners and recent immigrants) got the best farmland and control of the water. The majority got mostly desert and little access to water.... which is kind of important when you live in a desert.
In the 1930's and 40's tens of thousands of Jewish refugees fled the horrors of Nazi Europe and came to Palestine. In 1947 Zionists (people who believe God gave Jews the right to cleanse Palestine of non-Jewish Palestinians) started an ethnic cleansing war which continues to this day. Zionists committed a serious of atrocities in order to deliberately terrorize the local population, causing most of them to flee. By the time the Zionists declared independence, they had cleansed most of the area they controlled of non-Jews. The Zionists deliberately committed acts of terrorism. Historians have found records which show how the Zionists deliberately and meticulously planned the ethnic cleansing war years in advance. The neighboring countries, who voted against UN plans to create a Jewish state in Palestnine declared war because of the unfairness, atrocities and huge refugee burden created by Zionists. These nations probably would have declared war earlier, but that would have meant going to war with the British. In 1948, when the Brits pulled out, the neighboring countries were able to declare war without going to war with the British. By the time Israel declared independence, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians had already lost homes, their businesses and farms. The Deir Yassin massacre and other horrendous atrocities had already been committed. In 1967, Israel conquered the West Bank and Gaza and these Palestinians also became nationless.
Palestinians today continue to suffer the humiliation of being foreigners to the land where they were born in contravention of international law. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have lost their homes, bank accounts, farms, parks, graveyards... becaue they weren't Jewish. These people lost all their fundamental human rights and that's why they fight. They want the same things the rest of us have: nationality, the right to due process, the right to justice... Palestinians living in the West Bank and Gaza have none of these rights. They have no freedom, no justice, no nationality... A Jewish Israeli can walk up to a non-citizen Palestinian and put a bullet between their eyes and probably get away with it. The only time they would face any consequences for killing a Palestinian is the incident caught on video and the news makes a big deal of it... and sometimes not even then. Almost always, Israeli murders of Palestinians remain unsolved.
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If Palestine was a recognized country, then Israel wouldn't be able to build Jewish only colonies in the West Bank. Since Israel can and does build Jewish only colonies in the West Bank, that makes the West Bank part of Israel. Feel free to prove me wrong by giving another contemporary example where one country builds colonies for its people in another country.
Since Israel controls the borders, provides custom services, controls immigration, controls who can build a home and where they can build it, access to water, collects (and withholds) taxes, builds roads... and does pretty everything that a regular government does for its citizens, that makes the West Bank part of Israel. Israel is trying to pull the same BS that White Afrikaaners tried to pull on Black South Africans when they tried to create Black "homelands". The world rejected SA apartheid back then and the overwhelming majority of the world rejects the Israeli version of apartheid today. Many Canadians have a incorrect perception that most of the world approves of the Israeli version of apartheid, when in fact 90% of the people outside US and Canada are well aware of the human rights abuses suffered by Palestinians as a direct consequences of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
This is not a war between nations. Palestine would have to be a nation first. This is a civil war between the "haves" and the "have nots" within a region controlled by one government. In this area, Israeli Jews, even the ones living in the West Bank have full rights. Israeli Arabs have limited rights. Palestinians have no rights.
The only way Palestinians have been able to stop Israeli's creeping ethnic cleansing has been through active resistance. In the case of Gaza, they've used violence. I am against violence, but I understand why people who violently suffer oppression and injustice would violently fight for freedom and justice. Until you loose your citizenship, your home, your bank accounts and watch the state take these things from you and award them to someone else because they were chosen by God and you weren't, you can't know what its like to suffer as palestinians have suffered for 64 years now. I do support non-violent efforts by Palestinians to gain their freedom and get justice.
I invite you to discover that thousands of Palestinians use non-violent means to fight for freedom and justice:
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As for Gaza, Israel didn't withdraw on their own. Gaza's non-people resisted so violently that they forced the Israeli colonists out. Sure the Israeli government tried to portray this as a form of generousity and people like you bought that line... but its more accurate to say that increasing Gaza violence made Israel's Gaza colony undefendable and as a result Israel abandoned it.
If you think Palestinian Jews were discriminated against and persecuted worse than Palestinian Christians, other religious minorities or worse than how Christian persecuted Jews in Europe, then please give me examples to back up your opinion.
I think you have a lot of common misconceptions regarding the historical animosity between Jews and Muslims. Why do you think for centuries, Jews fleeing Christian countries typically fled to Muslim countries? That wouldn't make sense if the situation for Jews was worse in Muslim countries. Jews fled to Muslim countries because in general Muslims mostly left Jews alone. As long as Jews paid their taxes like everyone else, they enjoyed the same rights and freedoms as other non-Muslims living in a Muslim country.
Yes I would agree that many Muslims majority countries have lots of problems. Many of their problems have to do with the various western imposed dictators. Their development was stifled by western exploitation. The west has been meddling in the affairs of Muslim and Arabs for centuries. The Arab spring as its called hopefully will lead to more enlightened Arab democracies. I hope these new Arab democracies will model themselves after Turkey, the only true democracy in the region, including Israel.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Dec 19th, 2011 at 05:49 PM..