A sad indication that our prisons aren't working too well.

JLM

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Kelowna man loses eye in jail attack - British Columbia - CBC News

I personally believe there are too many people in prisons. I think by and large prisons should pretty well be limited to the incarceration of violent offenders and white collar criminals (including drug kingpins) and the two should be segragated. I think there are so many other more effective, cheaper and safer methods of punishment. With a little imagination I think many of the inmates could be on a payroll contributing instead of being parasites.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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I won't dispute the possibility of overcapacity in prisons - but I don't see how that led to this attack.
 

gore0bsessed

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Kelowna man loses eye in jail attack - British Columbia - CBC News

I personally believe there are too many people in prisons.

Well you're right and it's not an opinion but unequivocal fact. Don Jail has 550 prisoners according to Wikipedia, and it was originally built to only accommodate 276. This is just one little example out of many from all over Canada and the U.S, every prison is holding way above capacity. These prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders, some petty things too I'd bet, like Marijuana possession.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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I too think there are too many people in prison. We need to determine who we can
assist into rejoining society and those that should remain in prison as a warehousing
program. The people who are pot smokers and small time petty criminals should be
given an education and some discipline training and a chance to change their ways.

The senior drug importers, the violent criminals and sexual offenders and those who
murdered for honour killings etc, or killed their spouse over control issues should be
warehoused with no chance of getting back on the streets to start over.

There is another group as well, those who engage in contract killing, planned murders
and violence of particular offensive nature should in my view be executed. Yes I used
to be against the death penalty, but today science has given us the tools to sort out who
is who as it were and its time to rid ourselves of the worst or the worst.

The prison system for the most part should be more about salvaging those who can be
productive citizens and in most cases if these offenders were given an education and a
chance to make good in society we should make the effort. Even pardon them and let
things be. If they re-offend, then they are labelled a criminal for life and so on. They
should be given a chance. Sex offenders and those who prey on children should never
get out of prison period
 

VanIsle

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Nov 12, 2008
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Not every inmate has a mental health problem. Some people are just bad people and there are probably more bad people than there are people with mental health problems "on the inside". It's not often people go to jail for being in possession of a little marijuana. It has to be for being in possession of a LOT of marijuana and more often than not - it's a drug stronger than some grass. Let's be real! JLM you think there should be more than one to a cell. Limits regarding how many there are to a prison period, are set. Those darn criminals just don't seem to get it that the cells are full and they need to back off!!!! ;-) Overcrowding occurs. Inmates hurt each other. If one was bent on getting to the other, it would have happened one way or another even with segregation. Sometimes they are segregated for long periods and sometimes for a cooling off period but a cooling off period doesn't mean much to them if they really want to hurt another inmate. Sometimes fights happen. You would be amazed at how many weapons of every kind are found during a search. Find out sometime when a place like Kamloops is having an open house type of day and they will show the kinds of things/gadgets the inmates use to get weapons drugs and more inside.Things the average Joe would never begin to imagine. They do things like empty out a can of pop, fill it with dangerous stuff and get the lid back on and sealed without it ever appearing to be used.
How many times do you want to waste tax payers money sending these people to court via legal aid, let them off so they can re-offend and then let them off with a warning so they can be back the next month.
What about the innocent bystander whose picture was in the news the other day. His throat had been slit from ear to ear. A guy was bothering two women and the X police office (and he was X at the time), told the guy to take a hike. The guy left. Everyone thought it was over but in a couple of minutes, the offender turned around, walked up behind the X policeman and slit his throat. He pled guilty to aggravated assault and was given 2 years in jail and 2 years probation. Luckily, the man whose throat was slit had the presence of mind to stay calm, hold the right places on his own throat and someone else called 911. He is alive today for that reason alone. The original charge was attempted murder. The Crown didn't do it's job and the judge did a worse one.
Why should judges care? They get the same pay no matter how crappy a job they do. They never get in trouble for the crappy job they do of their job. When they finally step down, they still get exactly the same pay for the rest of their lives. Judges should be judged and if they are not doing their job well - then like anyone else - they should be fired and their healthy pensions taken away - for the rest of their lives.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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I wonder how many people are incarcerated for things like breaking the law to feed the family. I know a few people who grow weed because the minimum wage job at the call centre doesn't pay the bills - you know, the sort of people who lost jobs due to downsizing, offshore move or some other profitable venture for "the economy".
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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Bad people=bad brains=mental health issues.
I totally disagree with you. Some people are just bad and you simply cannot blame so much of it on mental health issues.

I wonder how many people are incarcerated for things like breaking the law to feed the family. I know a few people who grow weed because the minimum wage job at the call centre doesn't pay the bills - you know, the sort of people who lost jobs due to downsizing, offshore move or some other profitable venture for "the economy".
I'm sure not all of these people qualify for re-training but most governments do offer up programs to retrain people for another profession. More often than not, people simply refuse to go elsewhere to seek work and hang onto where they live and live there in poverty. I know that for our own local economy, we have been given a ship building contract that will start sometime over the next few months. The word on the news is that it will generate some 100 high paying jobs BUT the expectation of filling those jobs with qualified personnel are felt to be slim. Qualified people left for Fort McMurray where the really high paying jobs are. It's a place with very high paying jobs and very high rents. The ship building here won't begin to generate anything like that but hopefully, along with the high paying jobs there will also be some decent paying jobs and our "highest in BC" un-employed rate will go down.
People don't have to steal to feed the family. That's what food banks are for.
 

JLM

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Not every inmate has a mental health problem. Some people are just bad people and there are probably more bad people than there are people with mental health problems "on the inside". It's not often people go to jail for being in possession of a little marijuana. It has to be for being in possession of a LOT of marijuana and more often than not - it's a drug stronger than some grass. Let's be real! JLM you think there should be more than one to a cell

My post said otherwise with the exception of the likes of Pickton and Bernardo.
 

JLM

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I totally disagree with you. Some people are just bad and you simply cannot blame so much of it on mental health issues.

"Bad" is mainly a degree and the vast majority of people are more good than bad. Prisons shouldn't be so much for rehabilliation as for other's safety and just straight punishment for the worst offenders. (I'm talking maybe 1 or 2% of those presently incarcerated)
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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People in prison out of desperation are another matter all together.
These people are led by something else. but how did they become
desperate? If it was circumstances beyond their control and they
were an upstanding citizen before there is a case for mercy in the court
If they committed a crime because the had an untreated drinking
problem or they were on drugs, or stealing to continue a gambling
habit and knew the difference of their actions and did nothing they
are guilty of a crime.
If they are in prison they should be assisted to adjust and if they go back
to crime, and the poor choices they made before, then the law should
come down on them Those who are desperate trying to feed a family,
another matter. Often they don't have an education or a trade. Society
can help them here by helping them get an education in jail and perhaps
a trade.
We can move people out of prison quickly if they accept the help offered
and make something of their lives. No matter how long or short the sentence
no one should be allowed out of prison until they have obtained at least
high school graduation level. That would be a first step. It requires some
dedication and self discipline and that usually brings about an attitude adjustment.
 

JLM

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What about the innocent bystander whose picture was in the news the other day. His throat had been slit from ear to ear. A guy was bothering two women and the X police office (and he was X at the time), told the guy to take a hike. The guy left. Everyone thought it was over but in a couple of minutes, the offender turned around, walked up behind the X policeman and slit his throat. He pled guilty to aggravated assault and was given 2 years in jail and 2 years probation. Luckily, the man whose throat was slit had the presence of mind to stay calm, hold the right places on his own throat and someone else called 911. He is alive today for that reason alone. The original charge was attempted murder. The Crown didn't do it's job and the judge did a worse one.
Why should judges care? They get the same pay no matter how crappy a job they do. They never get in trouble for the crappy job they do of their job. When they finally step down, they still get exactly the same pay for the rest of their lives. Judges should be judged and if they are not doing their job well - then like anyone else - they should be fired and their healthy pensions taken away - for the rest of their lives.

REALLY- if we want to get really dramatic, lets bring up the guy who beheaded and ate part of the guy on the bus. Bringing up a case like this makes no sense at all as I already covered that type (chronic dangerous offenders) who should be warehoused.
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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I totally disagree with you. Some people are just bad and you simply cannot blame so much of it on mental health issues.


I'm sure not all of these people qualify for re-training but most governments do offer up programs to retrain people for another profession. More often than not, people simply refuse to go elsewhere to seek work and hang onto where they live and live there in poverty. I know that for our own local economy, we have been given a ship building contract that will start sometime over the next few months. The word on the news is that it will generate some 100 high paying jobs BUT the expectation of filling those jobs with qualified personnel are felt to be slim. Qualified people left for Fort McMurray where the really high paying jobs are. It's a place with very high paying jobs and very high rents. The ship building here won't begin to generate anything like that but hopefully, along with the high paying jobs there will also be some decent paying jobs and our "highest in BC" un-employed rate will go down.
People don't have to steal to feed the family. That's what food banks are for.
Retraining is great stuff - if you can get it immediately - because the bank won't wait for its mortgage payment and it's a bit ridiculous to accept less than you owe to sell it.

Food banks have limits too - and they're getting lowered every day people are losing their jobs or coming up against the inflation racket.