PM Harper

[Goober]

PM Harper - These are laws that should be addressed - Not 4 pot plants is a sso so and 5 means jail.

Western Alberta collision kills 4 teens - Edmonton - CBC News

Four male teens — two 16-year-olds and two 15-year-olds — are dead and another teen remains in an Edmonton-area hospital with critical injuries after a collision early Saturday morning in Western Alberta.

The driver of the pick-up truck, a 21-year-old Grande Prairie man, sustained non-life threatening injuries.

He allegedly fled the scene and was arrested a short time later by RCMP. He remains in custody with charges pending.

An RCMP collision analyst is helping with the investigation. Speed and alcohol are being investigated as potential factors.

Officials are still on scene and motorists are being asked to find alternative routes as a portion of the Correction Line is closed.

It is the second fatal crash involving teenagers in the province in a week. Four teenagers were killed late last Saturday in a single-vehicle rollover near the town of Magrath, in southwest Alberta.

 

[wulfie68]

PM Harper - These are laws that should be addressed - Not 4 pot plants is a sso so and 5 means jail.

Western Alberta collision kills 4 teens - Edmonton - CBC News

Four male teens — two 16-year-olds and two 15-year-olds — are dead and another teen remains in an Edmonton-area hospital with critical injuries after a collision early Saturday morning in Western Alberta.

The driver of the pick-up truck, a 21-year-old Grande Prairie man, sustained non-life threatening injuries.

He allegedly fled the scene and was arrested a short time later by RCMP. He remains in custody with charges pending.

An RCMP collision analyst is helping with the investigation. Speed and alcohol are being investigated as potential factors.

Officials are still on scene and motorists are being asked to find alternative routes as a portion of the Correction Line is closed.

It is the second fatal crash involving teenagers in the province in a week. Four teenagers were killed late last Saturday in a single-vehicle rollover near the town of Magrath, in southwest Alberta.

What do you want the PM to do about this? Hit and run is a crime, so is impaired driving, if it was a factor in this tragedy. 16 yr old are legally allowed to drive, but thats provincial jurisdiction in terms of setting the age, license classes and speed limits.Adjusting the drinking age is also in the bailiwick of the province. And sure the provincial gov't COULD take steps on those issues but are they warrented?

Its a sad fact of life that teens a) like to drink/party/whoop it up like older young people; b) some teens will drink and even if the legal age is older, they will still find a way, through older siblings, theft from parents, etc. because this is part of the experimentation process for many; c)they like to drive fast, in part because experience hasn't taught them the ramifications of speed; and d) they all have a sense of immortality and think nothing bad can happen to them. This was true 25-30 years ago when I was in my teens, it was true when my parents were kids and probably true farther back than that. The PM or the Premier can't do much to change that.

 

[taxslave]

After you clean up the mess left by a few drunk drivers it does tend to make you want an automatic death penalty if for no other reason than preventing repeat offenders.

 

[Goober]

What do you want the PM to do about this? Hit and run is a crime, so is impaired driving, if it was a factor in this tragedy. 16 yr old are legally allowed to drive, but thats provincial jurisdiction in terms of setting the age, license classes and speed limits.Adjusting the drinking age is also in the bailiwick of the province. And sure the provincial gov't COULD take steps on those issues but are they warrented?

Its a sad fact of life that teens a) like to drink/party/whoop it up like older young people; b) some teens will drink and even if the legal age is older, they will still find a way, through older siblings, theft from parents, etc. because this is part of the experimentation process for many; c)they like to drive fast, in part because experience hasn't taught them the ramifications of speed; and d) they all have a sense of immortality and think nothing bad can happen to them. This was true 25-30 years ago when I was in my teens, it was true when my parents were kids and probably true farther back than that. The PM or the Premier can't do much to change that.

Then like D&D the culture has to change.

 

[wulfie68]

Then like D&D the culture has to change.

In what way? Drinking and driving has been increasingly frowned upon over the last couple decades, even in rural areas where attitudes on these issues tend to change much slower.

Hell, we don't even know all the details on the crash in GP. Was the 21 yr old impaired? Was he driving too fast? Was the driver of the other vehicle impaired or driving too fast? We don't know and until we do, its stupid to rush to judgement.Those kids could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I know some provinces have restrictions on young drivers (i.e. those under 18 ) in terms of passengers and times allowed, but I'm not sure I agree with those solutions, as I don't think kids that bend/break laws about underage drinking will shirk away from driving restrictions... especially if there is a sense of unfairness in a "my older sibling didn't have this so why do I" way.

I'm not making light of this, but emotional, knee jerk reactions rarely accomplish anything worthwhile.

 

[Goober]

In what way? Drinking and driving has been increasingly frowned upon over the last couple decades, even in rural areas where attitudes on these issues tend to change much slower.

I'm not making light of this, but emotional, knee jerk reactions rarely accomplish anything worthwhile.

BC did it - Then the restaurant industry raised an uproar as people would not have a drink and the Govt was going to change the law - they did not - deaths have been cut in approx half from D&D with the new laws -

 

[gerryh]

BC did it - Then the restaurant industry raised an uproar as people would not have a drink and the Govt was going to change the law - they did not - deaths have been cut in approx half from D&D with the new laws -

You were asked what Harper had to do with this.... Nice of you to answer that question and make it obvious that Harper has NOTHING to do with it.

 

[wulfie68]

BC did it - Then the restaurant industry raised an uproar as people would not have a drink and the Govt was going to change the law - they did not - deaths have been cut in approx half from D&D with the new laws -

As GerryH pointed out, this is nothing to do with the Feds, unless perhaps you want to argue the legal blood alchol limit should be reduced from 0.08, which seems premature when the causes of the accident have not been determined/made public.

 

[mentalfloss]

Government need not intervene here as there is no significant threat to the public.

 

[petros]

unless perhaps you want to argue the legal blood alchol limit should be reduced from 0.08.

I'd love to see it 0.0.

 

[TenPenny]

We don't need to change the 0.08 limit.

We need to change our response.

Driving with bac over .08 = lose license for 1 year (1st offense).
Second offense, 5 years
Third, 10 years



Accident while driving over .08 - first offense, 1 year jail, 5 year ban
second offense, 5 year jail, lifetime ban

Fatal accident while impaired, 5 year jail, lifetime ban.

No whining or snivelling.

Caught driving while under suspension for any of the above, 1 year jail, lifetime ban (first offense)
second offense, 5 year jail.

 

[CDNBear]

Draconian, but I like it.

 

[petros]

I'd like to see a 0.0 limit.

 

[CDNBear]

Is there an echo in here?

 

[petros]

It's a point worth repeating.

 

[SLM]

We don't need to change the 0.08 limit.

We need to change our response.

Driving with bac over .08 = lose license for 1 year (1st offense).
Second offense, 5 years
Third, 10 years



Accident while driving over .08 - first offense, 1 year jail, 5 year ban
second offense, 5 year jail, lifetime ban

Fatal accident while impaired, 5 year jail, lifetime ban.

No whining or snivelling.

Caught driving while under suspension for any of the above, 1 year jail, lifetime ban (first offense)
second offense, 5 year jail.

Agree with all of that.

Except I'd be harsher with this sentence.

Fatal accident while impaired, 5 year jail, lifetime ban

If you take a life, you should pay a price. Driving under the influence turns your vehicle into even more of a dangerous weapon than it already is, it should be treated that way if a life is lost. Especially when there is an initial sober choice being made of whether to drink or not.

Nothing will ever completely rid us of drunk drivers, whether it's harsher laws, penalties or reduction of BCA. But I'd be satisfied if those capable of sober second thought were more inclined to do so.

 

[WLDB]

After you clean up the mess left by a few drunk drivers it does tend to make you want an automatic death penalty if for no other reason than preventing repeat offenders.

They tend to take themselves out occasionally. When a drunk driver gets themselves killed I feel no sympathy for them. Their victims of course, but not the drunk.

 

[wulfie68]

Has anyone seen anymore news on the accident in GP with stronger evidence as to the cause? I am not an advocate of impaired drivers but when people are asking to change laws, I want them to be sure they are talking about the right issue. I am not enamoured with BC's laws because they seem to operate in a de facto guilty until proven innocent manner, which while understandable from the perspective of protecting the public is still unconstitutional with regard to the rights of the individual.

I also think we need to get real with regards to lowering the BAC. Sorry Petros, but 0.0 would mean charging most people who take cough syrup for a cold. I know some jurrisdictions have instituted 0.05 rather 0.08 but I think we need to look at statistics and studies to see how much of an improvement in accidents and injuries this type of reduction would make.

If you take a life, you should pay a price. Driving under the influence turns your vehicle into even more of a dangerous weapon than it already is, it should be treated that way if a life is lost. Especially when there is an initial sober choice being made of whether to drink or not.

Weeellll... isn't one of the definitions of 1st degree murder, a murder that occurs during the commission of a criminal code offense? Seeing as impaired driving IS a criminal code offense, one could argue that a fatality while impaired driving is 1st degree murder, thus punishable by life in prison. I know this stretching things a bit but...

 

[Goober]

Has anyone seen anymore news on the accident in GP with stronger evidence as to the cause? I am not an advocate of impaired drivers but when people are asking to change laws, I want them to be sure they are talking about the right issue. I am not enamoured with BC's laws because they seem to operate in a de facto guilty until proven innocent manner, which while understandable from the perspective of protecting the public is still unconstitutional with regard to the rights of the individual.

I also think we need to get real with regards to lowering the BAC. Sorry Petros, but 0.0 would mean charging most people who take cough syrup for a cold. I know some jurrisdictions have instituted 0.05 rather 0.08 but I think we need to look at statistics and studies to see how much of an improvement in accidents and injuries this type of reduction would make.



Weeellll... isn't one of the definitions of 1st degree murder, a murder that occurs during the commission of a criminal code offense? Seeing as impaired driving IS a criminal code offense, one could argue that a fatality while impaired driving is 1st degree murder, thus punishable by life in prison. I know this stretching things a bit but...

Charges laid in Alberta crash that killed 4 teens - Edmonton - CBC News

A 21-year-old man is facing numerous charges Sunday after a car accident near Grande Prairie left four local teens dead and another in serious condition in an Edmonton hospital.

RCMP announced that Brenden Holubowich is facing 11 charges related to the collision, including impaired driving causing death and failure to remain at the scene.

Matthew Deller, 16, Vincent Stover, 16, Walter Borden-Wilkins, 15, and Tanner Hildebrand, 15, lost their lives in the crash and 15-year-old Zach Judd was critically injured and airlifted to hospital.

 

[gerryh]

Charges laid in Alberta crash that killed 4 teens - Edmonton - CBC News

A 21-year-old man is facing numerous charges Sunday after a car accident near Grande Prairie left four local teens dead and another in serious condition in an Edmonton hospital.

RCMP announced that Brenden Holubowich is facing 11 charges related to the collision, including impaired driving causing death and failure to remain at the scene.

Matthew Deller, 16, Vincent Stover, 16, Walter Borden-Wilkins, 15, and Tanner Hildebrand, 15, lost their lives in the crash and 15-year-old Zach Judd was critically injured and airlifted to hospital.

Ok, so we have someone being charged. Now what exactly is it you want Harper to do?